The journey so far; Lessons learned, niches discovered, and questions that remain!

[Comeuppance]

I fell pretty hard and fast into traditionals. It all started with this picture from this post:

Which led to this thread, and then, ultimately, my first traditional:

...And now, through some trial and error and deliberation, I've whittled down what has come in down to these three:

So, what have I learned so far?​

If you want it, or think you might want it later, get it NOW or be prepared to spend 200% or more... Or to never get it at all.

I've been trying to get my hands on a Beer Scout / Soda Scout / Cap Lifter since day one, and with no luck at anything close to a reasonable price point. Given the low numbers and the high demand / value... I'm pretty much lost on that front. Something to keep in mind for the future!​

There was an entire community of some of the most helpful and informative people I've ever met hiding in a subforum that I had no interest in until just recently.

I've spent years and years handling, buying, selling, trading, using, and researching knives, but still had no knowledge whatsoever about traditional knives. My first post over here was met with welcome words and loads and loads of information and helpful advice. As I looked around a bit more, I discovered that this was a close-knit yet welcoming community where generosity and pleasant discourse was the norm, and not the exception.​

Larger isn't necessarily better, and locks aren't always necessary.

Consider that this is coming from someone who generally carries 3.75"+ modern folders, and has a Large Espada as his "about town" knife. My initial hesitations about traditionals were based on the blade size and the non-locking nature. What got me out of the gas-station knife game was hearing of a acquaintance losing a finger to a failed lock on a cheap "tactical" knife (one of the endless knives with a glass breaker, belt cutter, assisted opening, and a partially-serrated mystery-steel blade) - so I sprung for Cold Steel as an obvious first choice for lock strength. Then I wanted bigger, stronger knives with fancier steels! Why on earth would I choose the clearly inferior non-locking, super tiny, two-handed-opening knives with cheap carbon steel? Well... You don't terrify people with a slipjoint, 1095 is very easy to strop and still holds a great edge, I don't spend much time stabbing car hoods or meat boots - so a lock isn't really all that necessary, and most of my cutting tasks are easily accomplished - and more controllably - with a smaller blade.​

Traditional knives develop charm, while modern folders lose value.

It's the difference between a pocket-worn brass zippo and a plastic butane torch lighter that has had all the paint abraded off through the years. I love carrying and using my slipjoints, and never hesitate to do so. My modern folders? I worry about the edge, the resale value, etc. Traditional folders just look better and gain character over time and use, as more memories and years become part of the identity of the knife. None of my modern folders have any real sentimental value, but I already have the red sawcut northfield 77 tied to thoughts of the fine, warm folk on the porch.​

---
​

Part of what has made it so easy to start putting together an assortment of traditional knives is the variety of styles combined with a variety of excuses niches. I still carry modern folders, but now have a traditional knife as a secondary (in practice, primary) to accompany it and be the less "aggressive" option.

I've found it to be very useful, as I match the modern folder to the traditional folder in a way that gives me all the blade shapes I could need for different cutting tasks. Carrying the HAP40 Endura? That's a sheepsfoot-ish blade, so I'll go with the Nifebrite 15 with the razor main. Carrying the Vallotton? I'll go for the 77 Sheepsfoot so I can have a straight edge handy.

Additionally, I've found I have several grails now. With modern folders, it's just a matter of waiting for someone to post them somewhere at a reasonable price. With traditionals... It's really closer to being a grail, as you might just never see one... For example:

[ REDACTED ]

...Not gonna see those show up anytime soon.


So, now, some questions:

- Are there any other brands I should be looking into? Case, Queen / Schatt & Morgan, and a few others have been described as "hit or miss" and should be chosen in person (fat chance for me, as there are few to none in the way of brick and mortar stores that sell decent knives around here), but what about Tuna Valley and some of the other contenders?

- Do you have multiple "niches" for your knives? Beater knife, utility knife, dress knife, etc. I find I'm looking for all kinds of different ones for different situations. Currently, I'm trying to figure out a good "screw it, you swim with the keys" knife, which might end up being something in Delrin.

 

[jmh33]

Email sent.. John

 

[mrknife]

I agree with most of the points! I was late to the party with GEC 48s, they came out earlier in the year this year. I jumped heavy into traditionals as well, a lot of help from some of the forum members getting the knives I wanted as a kid, thanks 2dead!. I have learned that lesson as well with the blade forums 2014 knife and now the Eric's Jack. People eventually do email you with knife sale offers which is nice. Currently in the dealings to obtain that Eric's Jack. I thought I was done for the year with those Schatt and Morgan barlows, but this offer appeared and is much nicer than whats being shown on that auction site. Actually, all the knives I bought in the last 4 months have all been traditionals.

I think the thing to do is pay attention to the for sale section. I remember missing the 2014 blade forums knife by as little as 40 minutes one time. Of course the other day some one sold 2 of them and I missed that as well, but I have obtained my NIB. All good things come to those who wait! I do see the beer scouts around from time to time actually, so keep an eye out!

Also you are right, I dont live anywhere close to Escanaba but Id like to go into a brick and mortar and examine the knife before buying it. High priced traditionals are not likely gonna get a lot of counter space even in sports shops. Internet buying for traditionals and knives in general is tough. Relying on reading stats and pictures is not very accurate sometimes. Thank god for return policys I guess!

 

[jackknife]

First, welcome to a far friendlier place on the 'net. Pull up a chair and be ready to spend a good amount of time here with some of the most informative, and friendly folks you'll find in ay forum.

And yes, you need to check out Case. They are a great company, with very good using knives. Especially the CV bladed knives. Yes, they can be a hit or miss in fit and finish, but they will make it right if you send it in. They make a lot more knives shipped out the door, so a few here and there get out. But the people at Case will stand behind whatever you buy. I don't know if a better beater knife exists than a Case sodbuster.

For a 'going swimming with the keys knife' check out the 300 sees knives from Buck. Plain Jane working knives built like Sherman tanks used to be made like.

Cruise the great bay and keep a lookout for old Camillus made knives. These 1095 bladed knives made bcd when Camillus was called "the contract king" are some of the nicest using pocket knives on the planet. They can behad at reasonable prices in decent shape.

But keep one thing in mind. You've kind of halfway stumbled onto it, but traditional knives is as much a state of mind as about the knives. They have a certain something that lets them get under your skin n short order, and a charm that beguiles people without any hassle. The deeper you get into them, the more will be revealed. Oh, and your wallet will suffer!

 

[r redden]

It's great to have you here.:thumbup: I went through the modern, Midtech, Custom I gotta have it thing and must say it never did it for me. I decided to try some of the knives I remember as a kid and all of a sudden found myself really enjoying my knives. For me now a small slipjoint in my pocket is very gratifying.

 

[Jack Black]

For me now a small slipjoint in my pocket is very gratifying.

Yes indeed, and it doesn't matter that it isn't the latest release from this or that company, that everyone but you seems to have. You can admire your friends' knives for what they are, and enjoy your own knives for what they are too. 'Grails' are for King Arthur & His Knights! :thumbup:

Nice post, but I think you might want to consider removing the list of your current 'grails' in case it's perceived as a WTB list :thumbup:

 

[afishhunter]

While they are inexpensive, I would suggest you take a look at the Rough Rider, Colt, and Marbles lines of traditional folders. For USA made, the Buck 30x series are worth a look.
From my experience, and from what I've read here on the forum, the Rough Rider, Colt, Marbles, and Buck (both the USA made 30x and Chinese made 37x and 38x series) are consistantly sharp out of the box, and have excellent fit and finish.
For the most pattern choices, Rough Rider is near impossible to beat. They have patterns available that others don't, and at a price that won't bankrupt the bank. For example: Case (for what ever reason) does not currently make a Barlow, a sunfish, or an elephan's toenail (small sunfish). I'm not sure if Case is currently making a coke bottle.
Rough Rider has tiny, small, standard, Daddy, and grand daddy size Barlows, with a variety of handle materials.
Rough Rider has the sunfish with smooth or jigged bone, and both a large and "small" coke bottle pattern.
If you like the looks of a David Yellowhorse knife, check out the Rough Rider Stoneworx series; very reminiscent of what David and Brian Yellowhorse produce, at a small fraction of the cost of a yellowhorse knife, my Stoneworx large stockman was under $20.
The Buck knives have the same forever warranty, regardless of where it was made. Admittedly, they do not have a lot of patterns to choose from though. I have both a USA made 301 stockman and the Chinese made 371 stockman, and the 389 canoe (made in China) all three are great knives. I especially like that the Buck stockmans are a three spring design; no crinked blades, and no blade rub.

 

[Tdhurl1103]

I did the traditional to modern and back to traditionals thing as well. But I still have to carry a modern for daily work.

There's only a few traditionals I really like. Sadly, everyone else likes them too, and I can never find them in the pattern, handle material and blade shape/s I desire. Most of the traditionals I want are gone within a few hours, or a few days. I'm not talking about collector pieces either. I did get lucky with the GEC Bullnose and a S&S Mudbug (sort of), but everything else is very hard to find. Still waiting on a Barlow and a good Boy's knife which, will never come my way. I would like to get the Barlow you have only in ebony and a spear point and a Boys knife (in ebony wood) that resembles my Camillus TL-29 without the screwdriver. I'm not even sure those two knives exist anyway.

One niche I discovered is that I like finding the older cheapy knives and if they need some help getting back to working, I like fixing them up to something I can use.

I enjoy this sub, even though sometimes its frustrating, but the people here are top notch folks who care about one another. Welcome.

 

[Cory Hess]

Awesome post. It's been fun watching you progress from "What's the biggest blade I can possibly buy on a traditional?" to genuinely enjoying the elegance of a typical traditional blade.

I was in the same rut that you are when I first started here. I was only looking at GEC because of reports of QC issues with other companies. My want list was longer than my list of knives that I had. Then I went to a knife show and met Courtney Daniels at a Queen/S&M/Tuna Valley booth. I looked at their knives and found that they were every bit as well made as the GECs I'd been buying. I walked out with three of their knives, but assumed that they had brought their best examples to the show and was still hesitant to buy one online. A couple weeks later I emailed back and forth with a dealer about the Queen #03 and he assured me that the fit and finish was definitely up to snuff. I ordered one and haven't looked back. I now have way more Queen knives than GEC, and have found that reports of problems with their knives have been greatly exaggerated. I have only had a few Case knives, but have been very happy with every single one I've had. I'm guessing that they're better than what's reported here as well.

GEC is very consistent in their fit and finish. I believe that part of what allows them to be so consistent is that they just accept some flaws and focus on other aspects of the knife, which allows them to make those aspects much more consistent. For example, they are really good at eliminating gaps between the covers and bolsters but are terrible for having sunken pins. They are great with getting the spring flush with the liners, but I've never had a GEC that had a spring that was flush with the spine of the blade.

My Queen knives have been less consistent, but also much better in aspects that GEC ignores. I'd say GEC focuses on getting their knives at 80% perfect, and gets almost every knife very close to that. Queen seems to aim for 100% and falls short by varying degrees, usually coming in somewhere between 70% and 90%. So, you could end up with a knife that's a little less refined than a GEC but it's just as likely that they're a bit better. People here tend to be big GEC fans, so they ignore the aspects that GEC falls short on.

Just to be clear, I still regularly carry GEC knives, and feel that you can't really go wrong with them. This isn't meant to bash GEC in any way at all. They're very good at what they do and put out a fine product. However, I don't feel that they're any better than the other high end traditional manufacturers. Of course, I'm working on a smaller sample size than many here as I'm pretty new to knife collecting. I've owned maybe three dozen GECs and probably a dozen Queens. Most of the GECs that I've owned have moved on to new homes. Most of the Queens I still own.

 

[mrknife]

Awesome post. It's been fun watching you progress from "What's the biggest blade I can possibly buy on a traditional?" to genuinely enjoying the elegance of a typical traditional blade.

... Of course, I'm working on a smaller sample size than many here as I'm pretty new to knife collecting. I've owned maybe three dozen GECs and probably a dozen Queens. Most of the GECs that I've owned have moved on to new homes. Most of the Queens I still own.

same here! well i dont have as many knives as you do, but when I first showed up on the porch it was always GEC this, GEC that, and Queen isnt so good, and Schatt and Morgan isnt so good. But after branching out a bit, I own more Schatt and Morgans than I do GECs!

 

[jackknife]

Wait until he discovers peanuts!

The Cult will be watching!

 

[kamagong]

Do you have multiple "niches" for your knives?[/B] Beater knife, utility knife, dress knife, etc. I find I'm looking for all kinds of different ones for different situations.

Sure. Here's my primary carry.



A lightweight belt knife for outdoor activities.



Chopper.



Camp knife.



For social visits.



All these knives have different purposes. All are traditional.

 

[T. Erdelyi]

Great read Comeuppance, you've learned some hard lessons fairly quickly. Something some collectors never learn. Personally I've been carrying a blade since I was 8, started collecting in earnest in the 80s but I started traditional than the tactical craze came along. I tested the waters and got some standard tactical pieces everyone should have but my real love has always been traditionals.

Look into Imperials and Colonials there used to be tons of them around but their numbers are slowly diminishing and they're getting harder to find in mint condition. They're still available for reasonable prices but I predict in the next 10 years even they won't as readily available. Also both Colonial and Imperial made higher end knives using premium materials and superior F&F, these are the one I look for but there were plenty of patterns, variations in configuration and scales.

I'm glad you found a home here, one thing I like about traditionals is theey all have history something modern tactical knives are in short supply of.

 

[Ryouchijtx]

Some really great photos kamagong ~

....

- Are there any other brands I should be looking into? Case, Queen / Schatt & Morgan, and a few others have been described as "hit or miss" and should be chosen in person (fat chance for me, as there are few to none in the way of brick and mortar stores that sell decent knives around here), but what about Tuna Valley and some of the other contenders?

Never let go of your first knife Comeuppance I'm glad to see you've settled down nicely here.

Considering you're no stranger to modern knives made by Reate with excellent fit and finish and the cost that comes along with them..(that's as much as I will discuss moderns here ) I would suggest you branch out sometime into customs. There are some makers I think that would be right up your alley.


I like Case, many of their vintage knives are the one's people on her used in the past or their parents did as well. Nice fit and finish and jigging. For the price though from the dealer/first hand market..you won't be getting better than GEC in my opinion. It's hard to top without spending a bit more.

- Do you have multiple "niches" for your knives? Beater knife, utility knife, dress knife, etc. I find I'm looking for all kinds of different ones for different situations. Currently, I'm trying to figure out a good "screw it, you swim with the keys" knife, which might end up being something in Delrin.

Of course, dress knifes are generally my customs, beater..I cannot recommend an Opinel no. 7 enough. Convex edge and thin stock make it the best buy you'll ever get for 10$ sub.
That or a farm and field bullnose in micarta. I personally like a custom frontpocket bowie by Gene Wiseman, one of my favourite users that I use to break down cardboard and misc.

 

[SadSappySucker]

I discovered that this was a close-knit yet welcoming community where generosity and pleasant discourse was the norm, and not the exception.

You nailed it.

I've found that everyone of my knives are beaters. There isn't a single one that gets treated any different than the rest.
After about a year here these are the few that have settled into my regular rotation. I have a couple others, but these have dominated my pockets(and belt) the most.

The northwoods presidential in the middle started it all. If you want a larger knife that is very slim while still having 2 blades(secondary wharnie) I couldn't recommend this one enough. It still sees the majority of pocket time.
And fast forward through the bunch, there's the bull nose. I was given this one by an extremely generous member here. I have carried this one non stop since receiving it on Christmas. The 71 is a very special knife. It encompasses everything I love about this forum.
I came here this last time not thinking to highly of traditionals, but I figured I would give them one more chance(the first was a case stockman). I'm so glad I did! I haven't carried a modern in quite a while and really have no desire to.

 

[Old Hunter]

You owe it to yourself to explore the world of Buck Knives (we also have a sub-Forum at Blade Forums); The 100 series are a time-tested series of working outdoorsman and hunters knives (as well as being a wonderful collectible series). They are also quite affordable and currently still being made (in Idaho). Once there you can check out the 300, 500, 700, and other series of Buck's. OH

 

[Comeuppance]

First, welcome to a far friendlier place on the 'net. Pull up a chair and be ready to spend a good amount of time here with some of the most informative, and friendly folks you'll find in ay forum.

And yes, you need to check out Case. They are a great company, with very good using knives. Especially the CV bladed knives. Yes, they can be a hit or miss in fit and finish, but they will make it right if you send it in. They make a lot more knives shipped out the door, so a few here and there get out. But the people at Case will stand behind whatever you buy. I don't know if a better beater knife exists than a Case sodbuster.

For a 'going swimming with the keys knife' check out the 300 sees knives from Buck. Plain Jane working knives built like Sherman tanks used to be made like.

I've never felt more immediately welcomed in my life. Seriously. You guys are incredible. It's contagious, too - I've already bought two knives I was only mildly interested in, but bought them anyway because the proceeds went towards a guy that I've never even talked to. He's part of this group, though, so, as far as I'm concerned, he's a good friend that I just haven't had the chance to meet yet

I managed to find some Black Delrin O1 Bull Busters, and ordered a pair! I'll have to look into the sodbusters and the Bucks in case the Bull Busters don't quite do it for me.

Cruise the great bay and keep a lookout for old Camillus made knives. These 1095 bladed knives made bcd when Camillus was called "the contract king" are some of the nicest using pocket knives on the planet. They can behad at reasonable prices in decent shape.

But keep one thing in mind. You've kind of halfway stumbled onto it, but traditional knives is as much a state of mind as about the knives. They have a certain something that lets them get under your skin n short order, and a charm that beguiles people without any hassle. The deeper you get into them, the more will be revealed. Oh, and your wallet will suffer!

Man, my wallet is already suffering. My paypal account is -wiped- and I'm still eyeing knives, constantly refreshing saved eBay searches, checking distributors several times a day... But, aye, there's something much more calm and friendly about carrying a traditional knife. They're a joy to use, carry, discuss, and admire. I don't get jealous or in a frenzy looking at knives I want - if I can get them, great! If I can't, I can just admire them from afar. Very different from how I've always perceived modern folders - objects of pure desire, and if I wanted one I HAD TO HAVE IT. This is very different and refreshing!

It's great to have you here.:thumbup: I went through the modern, Midtech, Custom I gotta have it thing and must say it never did it for me. I decided to try some of the knives I remember as a kid and all of a sudden found myself really enjoying my knives. For me now a small slipjoint in my pocket is very gratifying.

No kidding! I have never been more satisfied and happy with my knives before. There's just something about them... I want to use them all the time, and they're nice to just admire from time to time. I think it's that they aren't cranked out en masse like the Spyderco / ZT / etc folders I also carry - they have individual charm, and usage doesn't make them look "used" but, rather, aged. It's like developing a weird kind of friendship with a material object.

Nice post, but I think you might want to consider removing the list of your current 'grails' in case it's perceived as a WTB list :thumbup:

Ack! Redacted! Thank you!

 

[Jack Black]

For social visits.

LOL! Always a pleasure to see your knives my friend

Ack! Redacted! Thank you!

Quality :thumbup:

 

[Railsplitter]

they have individual charm, and usage doesn't make them look "used" but, rather, aged. It's like developing a weird kind of friendship with a material object.

That pretty much sums it up right there, my friend. Welcome home. :thumbup:

 

[Bastid]

First, welcome to a far friendlier place on the 'net. Pull up a chair and be ready to spend a good amount of time here with some of the most informative, and friendly folks you'll find in ay forum.

And yes, you need to check out Case. They are a great company, with very good using knives. Especially the CV bladed knives. Yes, they can be a hit or miss in fit and finish, but they will make it right if you send it in. They make a lot more knives shipped out the door, so a few here and there get out. But the people at Case will stand behind whatever you buy. I don't know if a better beater knife exists than a Case sodbuster.

For a 'going swimming with the keys knife' check out the 300 sees knives from Buck. Plain Jane working knives built like Sherman tanks used to be made like.

Cruise the great bay and keep a lookout for old Camillus made knives. These 1095 bladed knives made bcd when Camillus was called "the contract king" are some of the nicest using pocket knives on the planet. They can behad at reasonable prices in decent shape.

But keep one thing in mind. You've kind of halfway stumbled onto it, but traditional knives is as much a state of mind as about the knives. They have a certain something that lets them get under your skin n short order, and a charm that beguiles people without any hassle. The deeper you get into them, the more will be revealed. Oh, and your wallet will suffer!

Truth and wisdome there, but no one would expect otherwise .