The kamis reply to the tang failure.

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Here's a not so good copy of the FAX I sent to Kami a couple of days back about the tang failures. Probably the only one who can read it will be Sonam but you can see the sketches I made -- I think. I called again last night and here is an update.

Kami took this FAX down to the shop and showed it to the kamis. Although most could not read it they certainly could understand the sketches and what had happened. Amazingly they were not surprised. Here's what they had to say.

About one in a thousand village khukuris will fail the same way in the same place. It is not the fault of a grind mark but accidental hardening of the upper portion of the tang.

They did not try to deny the failure or mistake on their part, saying only this failure was due to their being hurried. Here is the fix they proposed. To take extra care when hardening -- don't pour the water too fast and take great care not to pour any water on the tang. Additional measure -- make the tang bigger by about a half. Knowing the kamis as I do I know if something breaks they love to make it bigger so I suggested this. One of the kamis commented, "that American bena might make a decent kami."

Kami, the boss, asked them why they would ever hurry in the making of a village khukuri. One told this little story. "Ram Bahadur came over to my shop a few years back and told me he needed a khukuri right away. Somebody stole his and he had work that needed to be done. I told him to come back tomorrow and I would have his khukuri ready. He told me he wanted it today. So, while he waited for half a day I made his khukuri. Next day he came back very angry. The tang had broken just like Bena's sketch. He asked me why it broke. I told him it was because he made me hurry. I told him if he wanted a good khukuri come back tomorrow. He said okay. I took my time and made a good khukuri. Ram Bahadur is still using it after five or six years. When you hurry this is what happens."

The kami is right.

As I write this brother-in-law Gelbu is on a week long recruiting effort, trying to hire five or six more kamis for shop 2 so the hurry factor can be at least cut down. He also alerted shop 1 to the tang failure of their 20 inch Sirupati and they are taking corrective procedures.

Lastly, the kamis welcomed any comments, suggestions and ideas from us and sent their assurance they would try to comply with any requirements we might have. I wondered why this turn around in attitude and had to finally chalk it up to decent pay.

I think the problem is going to be solved so take heart!

Uncle Bill
 
Bill,
New attitude???? It could be the result of not only the best pay to be had in the country for the work done, but a touch of hurt pride.

Hurry or not they were and are getting top dollar (rupe)[sic}. And there was failure.
And a mistake is a mistake no matter what the reason. A good smith doesn't like mistakes for any reason.
Happy Trails,
Dan
 
I think everything is under control now.

Gotta slow down both here and there!

Dan, I think you are right. The kamis don't want to make a poor tang or anything else that isn't tops.

Pride? Remember the shop 2 kamis would not sign that blade that came up from shop 1 unmarked. Every kami who is any good at all believes he is the best kami in Nepal!

Uncle Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Martino (edited 12 July 1999).]
 
I can speak Nepali better than I can read or write it - thanks to the missionary schools that ensured English as my main language (albeit with a weird accent!) - so this took a bit of slow reading.

But in case anyone should have any doubts as to what exactly all those squiggly lines mean, let me reassure you that it is exactly as Uncle Bill says: The fax starts off by explaining the problem with the BAS and the 20" Sirupati, mentions possible causes for this, suggests improvements, asks info to be forwarded to the other shop too, reinforces importance of QC for the sake of the customers, and finally signs off as "Jwai" (son-in-law) Martino.

- Sonam

 
Thanks for the translation, nephew. It would have taken me two days to put this FAX together without the help of Yangdu.

Uncle Bill
 
After all this talk about tang failures and having atually broken one myself I decided to go out and beat hell out of my 15" AK and my village model. If the AK could talk to me I think it would have been taunting me. I don't think that there is anything I can do to it to hurt it. I do love this blade!!!!!
The village model is an excellant, lightweight all purpose knife. It takes every kind of abuse that I can throw at it. I do need to recontour the handle where my pinkie finger wraps around it. Uncle Bill, do you know if the handle was stained or just oiled? Another question, will the fold lines in the blade compromise long term durability or are they basically just cosmetic?

I must agree with the general concensus: if you are worried about a tang failure go beat the **** out of the knife for 15-30 mintues. If it doesn't break then don't worry about it.

Mike
 
What Jaeger says is true: the 20" Sirupati snapped on the first session that I used it -- cutting up an old hardwood dresser. I was spiltting planks lengthwise and came up with only the handle in my hand after a few strokes -- and knew right away it was just a fluke -- my AK has been wickedly abused at length by me, as has the replacement 20" Sirupati, and no failures by either of them!

Bravo!

--B.
 
Tang failure - not a good thing. I know I'm probably asking a question that has been answered somewhere else. Was the break in the above-the-handle steel, or was it inside the handle?

My observations - especially with the two sirupatis that Lalit just sent in with my last shipment - was that the weapon design was too long and thin to be used properly as a "chopper" like one of Bill's Ang Kholas or even one of my Panawals. One of the guys who snatched up the sirupatis wanted them for his collection. The other wanted his for martial arts. Any thoughts or corrections to my assesment?

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Craig Gottlieb
Gurkha House
Blade Forums Sponsor
 
Tang failure was as shown in opening sketch. I would rather see a tang failure than blade failure if something has to fail. A blade breaking or bending shows either poor steel or poor heat treat or both and that the entire blade was poorly manufactured. The tang fails because of a hurried heat treat which spills water on the upper portion of the tang. A little care will fix that.

I am a passable welder and I think I could weld the tangs back and the knife would continue working for years. And, as many have told me, two failures in 11 years and 6,000 khukuris is still not such a bad record but it is still too many for my liking. We are not accustomed to any failures.

Uncle Bill
 
Craig,

The replacement HI Sirupati has seen awesome, heavy chopping and splitting duty, without a hint of failure. It obviously holds up just fine for chopping.

Uncle,

Your 2 out of 6,000 blades in 11 years is a rate that any manufacturer of ANYTHING in the world would love to emulate... personally, it's the best success rate I've ever seen in any industry -- so be proud!

Peace,

Brian.
 
Craig, my 20" Sirupati has been used for heavy chopping with no ill effects. It is currently my blade of choice for brush cutting but it capable of heavier work if need be. I would obviously rather another model for this heavier chopping if the choice was there of course.

It might me an idea for you to take one out of each new model you get and really work it out to get a feel for how it compares to the others.

-Cliff
 
Bill: I disagree about the tang/blade failure issue (prefering tang failure to blade failure). Although we both would hate to have either, someone with a chipped blade tip can still use his knife in an emergency. Someone with just a handle in their hand cannot. So, from a manufacturing point of view, I do sort-of agree with you. However, from a customer's point of view, I do not. Also, poor tang design may be an indication that other things are not right with that particular khukuri. When I find a blemish, I won't ever send it out, simply because I instantly distrust the entire khukuri. It goes into a bin of khukuris for return to Lalit (we have a good agreement about this).

Craig.

 
Cliff: Didn't see your post until after I'd already posted. I agree with your assessment of the sirupati as a "brush clearer." Exactly what I had in mind when I got my first two.

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Craig Gottlieb
Gurkha House
Blade Forums Sponsor
 
Cliff: Didn't see your post until after I'd already posted. I agree with your assessment of the sirupati as a "brush clearer." Exactly what I had in mind when I got my first two.

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Craig Gottlieb
Gurkha House
Blade Forums Sponsor
 
I agree with Craig.I don`t want a handle in my hand and a heavy blade on a frolic of its own.

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Craig, Ghostsix, I would assume that Bill was speaking from a manufacturing point of view as in which one is easier to make sure doesn't happen again. If the failures had been breaks in the blade itself then the problem would indicate that either the steel itself was poor or the kamis didn't work it correctly. Both are fairly major problems to be dealt with.

-Cliff
 
I see your point Cliff,but think that the safety issue is paramount.
That is not really responsive,but then,I do that.Sometimes to my chagrin.Excuse me.We can all fill in the blanks,can we not?Too many public safety seminars,no doubt,and too much time in admin.
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[This message has been edited by ghostsix (edited 13 July 1999).]

[This message has been edited by ghostsix (edited 13 July 1999).]
 
You are right, Cliff. I would rather see no failures at all but humans are involved and I have never met a human yet who was perfect. The tang is an easy fix as I mentioned. If our blades broke or bent it would mean starting all over from the beginning.

The fact that the kamis immediately recognized the problem, confirmed the failure as happening even with village khukuris, knew exactly what had caused the failure and vowed they would take the necessary action to correct the problem makes me believe we may not see this problem again for another 11 years.

I have noticed that many choose to ignore failure, hide it, deny it, refuse to discuss it. HI does not and will never operate this way. We still believe the old saying, "honesty is the best policy," is true even in this day and age.

Uncle Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Martino (edited 13 July 1999).]
 
I like the writing on the letter. It flows very well.

thanks and take care
collin
 
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