The Khukuri as a bayonet

not2sharp

not2sharp

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kukrie.jpg



Examples of khukuri bladed bayonets have been documented on the market going back to the 1950s. Yet many bayonet collectors and experts feel that all of these bayonets are fantasy pieces assembled for the collector's market from old knife and bayonet parts. Does anyone have any first hand evidence of one of these bayonets in use. Perhaps an old picture of a 19th century Gurkha with one of these bayonets?



n2s
 
There are some pics of these khukuri bayonets somewhere on the HI website (maybe the FAQ). From what I remember reading, these bayonets were mostly used for parades.

I also read that some forgery khuk bayonets were made from perfectly good OLD khuks. Bill will have better info on this.

Bob
 
You might be interested in reading this old thread and seeing the old Civil War pic.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=125953&highlight=Civil+War

I had almost forgotten about it until you showed the pic of the bayonet as well as the topic title.
And it's still a very moving picture, perhaps even more so under the present circumstances.

And this is a very good example of why everyone should spend a little time browseing the archives when the forum is slow.
Even after looking at something 2 or 3 times I still pick up something new or a different insight as I learn more about khukuris and other knives.:)

Thanks Heber. I went back and cut and pasted it again, lets see what happens now.

Okay, it worked for me that time.:)

2nd edit.....
I just noticed something new.... Has anyone else ever noticed that the khukuris scabbard appaers to be on backwards and under the belt or am I not looking at something correctly?

I have to study the pic closer to see if that's exactly what I'm seeing......
 
The link didn't work for me.


Heber Ellsworth
 
I don't know what happened but it's fixed now. Just bringing it BTTT.
 
Now it works. Interesting, thanks for sharing it.


Heber Ellsworth
 
I'm still not real confident with my picture manipulation, but lets see if this will show up a bit better. I enlarged and cropped the pic. It's pretty grainy, but it shows the belt and scabbard relationship a tad better I think.

Well I was gonna repost it after taking the size down, but I just found out the browse attachment is no longer on the edit part of this post.:( Dayum!!!!
 
Here goes again. If this doesn't work I will try it when I'm not as tired.

I cut it 50% so it shouldn't take as long to load as it would have.

Success!!!!
So what do you all think? Is the belt over the scabbard and if so do you think it was intentional or just the pic itself?
I know there were a lot of sash or sash style sheaths back in those days where the belt was worn over the sheath for better knife retention.
 
Looks to me like the belt goes over the scabbard but through the belt loop. I wear some of my knives that way. It helps hold the knife and sheath (Scabbard in this case) better. Just my $.02 worth,


Heber Ellsworth
 
That khukuri looks like a 20th century version. From the scabbard, it looks to have a sharp shoulder, instead of the more rounded design we usually see on 1860 vintage khukuries. It would be good to track down the source of this photo to see if they have supplied valid civil war photos on other ocassions.

n2s
 
On my desk is a small booklet titled "The Kukri" published by the Gurkha Museum and sent to me by John Powell. On page 4 of this booklet there is a picture of a company of Nepalese soldiers in parade dress uniform with this caption: Nepalese Soldiers 1813 -- 1837. Each rifle is equipped with a khukuri bayonet.
 
How many cases of beer will I have to kick in to get a copy of that booklet? :)

n2s
 
John visits the Museum on a regular basis. If you ask him he might get a copy of the booklet for you.
 
Bill,

Good suggestion. Please let me know what the title of the work is and I'll drop John an Email.

n2s
 
Uncle Bill Thanks - I noticed you mentioned the title in your first post but I guess I hadn't had enough coffee today. :)

n2s
 
I always thought all the older khukuris had the full curved blade, but when the Malla was dug out of the floor of BirGhorka it was decided it was a 200 year old khukuri with a definite angled shoulder.
Come to find out a lot of the older khukuris have the angled shoulder.:confused: The world of khukuris can be very confusing at times it seems.:)
 
Their site is at:

http://harry.oneview.net/cgi-bin/eP...464610a05c8/ePages/Customer/Vanity/easy/14849

Be careful using your "back" button - use their menu buttons or their "back" or "prev" clickers - every time I used my keyboard back button, it kicked me off the site.

I didn't see the Khukuri booklet in their shopping line-up, but you might request it via e-mail. They might not have it "on the counter", considering the current attitude toward weapons over there - may want you to believe the Gorkhas carried daffodils into battle :rolleyes:
 
Perhaps the knife dug up at BirGorkha wasn't as old as guessed. Remember that some kamis give estimates of khukuris being 10,000 years old while actually being from the mid 1800s. The idea that the early khukuris have a very rounded shoulder or no shoulder at all is sound and still a good guideline.

The Civil War photo turned out to be a recent shot made to look old of some re-enactors and was published in the Dixie Gun Catalog(?). There was a lot of discussion on this forum quite a while back so the thread exists somewhere.

The booklet I gave Bill was something I picked up at the Gurkha Museum. It may be available from them, but last time I was there they hadn't made anymore up. It has a lot of information including the shot of the Gurkha troops in formation with Brown Bess muskets and attached khukuri bayonets. It says the date was before photgraphy was available (according to Beaumont Newhall; The History of Photography)so who knows.

I have seen 2 versions of what the khukuri bayonet is supposed to be and 2 documented drawings that it really did exist. These are from a 1976 article in Guns Review by J.A. Carter.

There are copies around that may be original, and copies that are fakes. The only ones I would trust are the 2 in the historical museum in Kathmandu and if I could find an example of the documented one. No one has yet found mention of these bayonets in store's journals, uniform regulations, or old standing orders for troops.
 
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