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Thanks, I'll check it out.
-
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the khukuri in combat
- Thread starter DannyinJapan
- Start date
Thanks, I'll check it out.
I realize this is a page late, kendo, but your beloved Austrailia is very much on the violence/crime charts and is either passing or not different enough to burn a marshmellow over the US in crime stats. Since you banned a lot of firearms, of course. Which now brings me to this thread; as has been stated by others, when people are able and willing to defend themselves if need be, Evil does not run hog wild.
munk
munk
Originally posted by Spectre
Leanne,
The first of the two comments from "me" preceding this was written by my close friend Byron Quick- he signed it.
Personally, history is interesting...but I'd rather be training.
John
The mistake was mine and I apologise. Of course if you put your name in your signature line...you wouldnt be a ninja
Originally posted by Kohei
Hello Bex,
I fully take on board what you say about people like Dr Friday, etc etc and we shall endeavor to get copies of the books you mention. Would appreciate it if you could email myself (or Simon) with book titles etc. I'm sure that once we have read them and digested them, they will potentially replace Draegars works in the syllabus as more up-to-date versions.
Thank you very much for your valued view points, I will certainly have a look at the weblinks you have pointed out.
I personally am still very much a "beginner" in terms of Martial Studies, but I'm keen and willing to learn. I expect to make mistakes and comments that will not necesarily be in agreement with others, but thats all part of the learning process and the debate in Martial arts that has been going on for hundreds and hundreds of years. Very few people have the same opinion, what a boring place the world would be if we did!!!
Thank you once again. Regards, Leanne
I have put links to where you can buy the books in an email. Mr Amdur's you will have to get from Koryu.com as they were privately published and are not available from the likes of Amazon.com.
I hope you enjoy them as much as I did.
As I said before, each person should take the approach that suits them.
- Joined
- May 16, 2002
- Messages
- 4,437
Too bad the curriculum does not include more Western MA stuff, like all the fechtbuchs put out by the old Euro Maisters. Talhoffer, Ringneck, (Skip vonClausewitz), etc, Works like Flos Duellatorum, Le Jeau De la haeche, Cold Steel, heck even the Spec Forces manual on combatives. (The last one has very similar diagrams to fechbuchs written 200-700 years ago).
I have been studying these western maisters for some years now, and they would make a good contribution to your line of study, rounding out the lack of W MA.
Perhaps the need for old- and middle-english training (and old gremanic language forms) keeps a few of these off the list, but Cold Steel is a relatively modern work on sabre fighting and calvary fighting, written in english.
Anyhow, just a thought.
Keith
I have been studying these western maisters for some years now, and they would make a good contribution to your line of study, rounding out the lack of W MA.
Perhaps the need for old- and middle-english training (and old gremanic language forms) keeps a few of these off the list, but Cold Steel is a relatively modern work on sabre fighting and calvary fighting, written in english.
Anyhow, just a thought.
Keith
Thank you for your suggestions also Keith. Who is the author of the Cold Steel book you mention on sabre fighting and Calvary fighting?? I have a book called Cold Steel, but its the one by John Styers. Will also look up the others you mention. Looks like i'm gonna be busy!! 
"An old trooper of the Nizam's told me the old English broad blades were in great favour with them, when remounted. I said, 'How do you strike with your swords to cut off men's limbs?' - 'Strike hard, sir!' said the old trooper. 'Yes, of course; but how do you teach them to use their swords in that particular way?' - 'We never teach them any way, sir; a sharp sword will cut in any one's hands.'"
- The Secret History of the Sword,
by J. Christoph Amberger
- The Secret History of the Sword,
by J. Christoph Amberger
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2002
- Messages
- 183
Don't forget the salt!
Kohei: I admire your civility in the face of rudeness from "spectre". I saw no harm about our art in your previous comments. I would have not been as respectful to "spectre" and would have taken his offer "to meet him on the mat". It would be a short refreshing drive west to remind him his art is also my art.........
Hi Pipey,
Back in my school days, the place to "sort" probs was the sandpit!!! I always said "meet me at the sand pit...... and don't forget your bucket and spade"!!! These days my bucket and spade have been replaced by kukri and a katana!! LOL! Thank you for your concern Pipey, but personally I took it as no threat from Spectre, and one of the posts from Spectre was actually his friend Byron. Maybe i'm being naive and if so, time will tell. If this proves to be the case, did you mention refreshing drive....!
Gurkha curry recipes to follow shortly!!
Back in my school days, the place to "sort" probs was the sandpit!!! I always said "meet me at the sand pit...... and don't forget your bucket and spade"!!! These days my bucket and spade have been replaced by kukri and a katana!! LOL! Thank you for your concern Pipey, but personally I took it as no threat from Spectre, and one of the posts from Spectre was actually his friend Byron. Maybe i'm being naive and if so, time will tell. If this proves to be the case, did you mention refreshing drive....!
Gurkha curry recipes to follow shortly!!
- Joined
- Nov 3, 1998
- Messages
- 4,331
(foregoing addressed to the quotation mark lover) 
However, it's certainly a good idea to keep martial artists honest. Anyone who wants to engage in some good natured training with me is always welcome.
Heh. To think I tried to warn that a martial arts thread could go downhill fast. Don't know what I was thinking.
John Shirley
However, it's certainly a good idea to keep martial artists honest. Anyone who wants to engage in some good natured training with me is always welcome.
Heh. To think I tried to warn that a martial arts thread could go downhill fast. Don't know what I was thinking.
John Shirley
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2003
- Messages
- 50
Kohei writes
Hello Spiral,
Ninja were originally called Shinobi-no-jutsu amongst other names. Ninja today often associate the word "budo" with their art, but this is incorrect. It is a bugei/bujutsu art.
There were "ninja like" activities before ninjutsu became formalised such as Prince Yamoto, etc but the true concepts of ninjutsu originate from China many years before they were "officially" used in Japan. Ninjas do come from Japan, but their "concepts" originate from China.
There were 2 types of ninja, the most common were Samurai of a particular clan who were trained in Shinobi ways. Then there were the type of Ninja you could hire from Iga province who were used by Daimyo for jobs they did not want to be associated with.
The great Don F Draegar who had the most knowledge of any westerner in the ways of the warrior arts of Japan, reckoned that no genuine ninja could be taller than 5'3", this was after he was taken to a genuine ninjutsu training compound.
*************************
This is utter nonsense.
Since I currently train with several of Dons closest friends-including the man who brought him home and buried him- We would be facinated with any information you could offer of Dons view of Supposed "ninjas" and his visiting a Ninja camp. They did all of the research with him for his books and all of them share the view that ninjutsu as a "singular" art never existed on the earth accept for the made up arts of modern men. I've no wish to debate the "ninjas" out there. But if you are going to quote and embelish what Don thought about these Ninja tales-then I will be happy to quote you from the men who trained with him. I caution you that you may not like the opnions offered.
That said,Please share!
The martial arts
There are several "martial art" threads begining here. Both the advice and the source marterial is antithetical to any classical arts I know of.
"All weapons are the same"
"Get out of the way and let the weapon do what it knows to do?"
Holy crap!
I spit out my coffee when I read that.
There are many weapons indigenous to cultures that are highly unique in their handling properties. Both in timing, rythm, distance, and execution. The use of a kodachi is distinctly different from a sword. Bo is a different animal then yari, and Stick fighting is a world away from that. Cut and thrust to Japanese arts? The same? You have got to be kidding. Kukri use? Different still. And Indonesean arts are not anything like Japanese arts. Neither is modern knife fighting.
All the same?
Who told you this stuff?
There is weapons training, and then there is weapons training. I suppose you can call all of it "training" if you want. But it most assuredly is not all the same.
Everyone has an opinion-like the old boxing axium "Everyone has a plan-till they've been hit."
To think that all the arts are the same and all of the theory is equal is a huge mistake.
Cheers
Dan
Hello Spiral,
Ninja were originally called Shinobi-no-jutsu amongst other names. Ninja today often associate the word "budo" with their art, but this is incorrect. It is a bugei/bujutsu art.
There were "ninja like" activities before ninjutsu became formalised such as Prince Yamoto, etc but the true concepts of ninjutsu originate from China many years before they were "officially" used in Japan. Ninjas do come from Japan, but their "concepts" originate from China.
There were 2 types of ninja, the most common were Samurai of a particular clan who were trained in Shinobi ways. Then there were the type of Ninja you could hire from Iga province who were used by Daimyo for jobs they did not want to be associated with.
The great Don F Draegar who had the most knowledge of any westerner in the ways of the warrior arts of Japan, reckoned that no genuine ninja could be taller than 5'3", this was after he was taken to a genuine ninjutsu training compound.
*************************
This is utter nonsense.
Since I currently train with several of Dons closest friends-including the man who brought him home and buried him- We would be facinated with any information you could offer of Dons view of Supposed "ninjas" and his visiting a Ninja camp. They did all of the research with him for his books and all of them share the view that ninjutsu as a "singular" art never existed on the earth accept for the made up arts of modern men. I've no wish to debate the "ninjas" out there. But if you are going to quote and embelish what Don thought about these Ninja tales-then I will be happy to quote you from the men who trained with him. I caution you that you may not like the opnions offered.
That said,Please share!
The martial arts
There are several "martial art" threads begining here. Both the advice and the source marterial is antithetical to any classical arts I know of.
"All weapons are the same"
"Get out of the way and let the weapon do what it knows to do?"
Holy crap!
I spit out my coffee when I read that.
There are many weapons indigenous to cultures that are highly unique in their handling properties. Both in timing, rythm, distance, and execution. The use of a kodachi is distinctly different from a sword. Bo is a different animal then yari, and Stick fighting is a world away from that. Cut and thrust to Japanese arts? The same? You have got to be kidding. Kukri use? Different still. And Indonesean arts are not anything like Japanese arts. Neither is modern knife fighting.
All the same?
Who told you this stuff?
There is weapons training, and then there is weapons training. I suppose you can call all of it "training" if you want. But it most assuredly is not all the same.
Everyone has an opinion-like the old boxing axium "Everyone has a plan-till they've been hit."
To think that all the arts are the same and all of the theory is equal is a huge mistake.
Cheers
Dan
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2003
- Messages
- 50
Perhaps it would be advisable to stick to the thread title and discuss the use of the
"kukri in combat"
by those who know what they are talking about.IE: Those who researched the use of the
"kurki in combat"
and those who trained men to use the
"Kukri in combat."
I have met two of those. One Ghurka most assuredly dissavowed _any_ similarity to other cultures weapons and went to great lengths at the seminar to point out the unique characteristics of both the
"Kukri and its use in Combat."
I don't know if this is different from "billy-bob from Oklahoma's" use of it at his dojo at the mall that makes all weapons equal up to "blue belt" or whatever.
But of course all opinions being equal....... Maybe he knows a thing or two about the
"Kukri in combat."
Cheers
Dan
"kukri in combat"
by those who know what they are talking about.IE: Those who researched the use of the
"kurki in combat"
and those who trained men to use the
"Kukri in combat."
I have met two of those. One Ghurka most assuredly dissavowed _any_ similarity to other cultures weapons and went to great lengths at the seminar to point out the unique characteristics of both the
"Kukri and its use in Combat."
I don't know if this is different from "billy-bob from Oklahoma's" use of it at his dojo at the mall that makes all weapons equal up to "blue belt" or whatever.
But of course all opinions being equal....... Maybe he knows a thing or two about the
"Kukri in combat."
Cheers
Dan
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2003
- Messages
- 50
Pipeycain
Is that right?
I would rather go into further depth about Ninjas when I hear a response from Kohei about Dons supposed views about the Ninjas. I may have to wait for a reply from the man closest to Don as he is currently in Japan. But I will be speaking with him shortly. He gets a kick out of Draeger stories. In fact he and others routinely address some of questions and the misinformation that is growing on the web and they try to help set the record straight.
No one of any standing in Koryu that I know of has any serious regard for "ninjas." Nor any singular school that supposedly taught it as a a martial art or sogo-bujutsu.
There are current schools with some good artsts in them but the debate is not about fighting ability, but of historical accuracy. The general belief is that they are made up out of some subsets of technique of real koryu and others out of whole cloth. But of course this greatly frustrates some of the quite serious guys who study it and who DO care about the lack of verification-and/or it is completely dismmised by others who buy it all lock, stock, and barrel.
cheers
Dans
Is that right?
I would rather go into further depth about Ninjas when I hear a response from Kohei about Dons supposed views about the Ninjas. I may have to wait for a reply from the man closest to Don as he is currently in Japan. But I will be speaking with him shortly. He gets a kick out of Draeger stories. In fact he and others routinely address some of questions and the misinformation that is growing on the web and they try to help set the record straight.
No one of any standing in Koryu that I know of has any serious regard for "ninjas." Nor any singular school that supposedly taught it as a a martial art or sogo-bujutsu.
There are current schools with some good artsts in them but the debate is not about fighting ability, but of historical accuracy. The general belief is that they are made up out of some subsets of technique of real koryu and others out of whole cloth. But of course this greatly frustrates some of the quite serious guys who study it and who DO care about the lack of verification-and/or it is completely dismmised by others who buy it all lock, stock, and barrel.
cheers
Dans
Dan,
I've read about the controversy surrounding Daito ryu as well. Recall some controversial comments by made by one of your students on forums. I know about some of the opinions of some noted koryu people on the state of other koryu. Kind of reminds one of something once written in the bible regarding sins and stone throwing. Still, everyones still doing it so it looks like we never learn.
The whole ninja debate has been done to death on forums like ebudo-as you well know. This isnt a martial arts forum. Just a kukri forum where a few like minded individuals hang out and bs with each other. Flaming is neither sought not welcomed.
So maybe you know the likes of Phil Relnick, Hunter Armstrong and others who were close to Donn Draeger. Good for you. Why dont you try extending the hand of friendship and offering some of what you know, instead of jumping all over people?
The late Terry Dobson once wrote an essay on the principles of aiki. It involved an encounter he had with a drunk on the tokyo metro and how he watched an old man apply the priciples of aiki, rather than the bone breaking techniques. 'A kind word turneth away wrath'.
Dan, I'd love to converse with you about martial arts, but in friendship and not in arguement. I'm sure you have so much more to give than flames or scorn.
I've read about the controversy surrounding Daito ryu as well. Recall some controversial comments by made by one of your students on forums. I know about some of the opinions of some noted koryu people on the state of other koryu. Kind of reminds one of something once written in the bible regarding sins and stone throwing. Still, everyones still doing it so it looks like we never learn.
The whole ninja debate has been done to death on forums like ebudo-as you well know. This isnt a martial arts forum. Just a kukri forum where a few like minded individuals hang out and bs with each other. Flaming is neither sought not welcomed.
So maybe you know the likes of Phil Relnick, Hunter Armstrong and others who were close to Donn Draeger. Good for you. Why dont you try extending the hand of friendship and offering some of what you know, instead of jumping all over people?
The late Terry Dobson once wrote an essay on the principles of aiki. It involved an encounter he had with a drunk on the tokyo metro and how he watched an old man apply the priciples of aiki, rather than the bone breaking techniques. 'A kind word turneth away wrath'.
Dan, I'd love to converse with you about martial arts, but in friendship and not in arguement. I'm sure you have so much more to give than flames or scorn.