The lock bar insert ?

[skyhorse]

I own many titanium frame lock folders , some with lock bar insert others without. The oldest most used ones have no lock bar insert yet still lock up right as rain.
Is the lock bar insert a problem that needed a fix or a fix that needed a problem ?

 

[DocJD]

I have had cheap frame locks travel all the way over 100% , but remained functional .

Having a way to adjust this might be nice to have as insurance on a more expensive model .

Not a burning issue for me . I have mostly back locks .

 

[kreole]

I seem to remember Sal saying Spyderco added them after getting warranty claims in with heavy wear from a crazy number of openings. That was talk about the Sage 2 specifically I think.

For the average dude opening a knife just to cut stuff, I doubt it's needed. For fidgeting, maybe it does have usefulness.

 

[Andrew George]

I definitely prefer a lock bar insert. It prevents lock stick and wears less than titanium. I honestly can’t think of any downsides…I don’t know why so many people hate them.

 

[goldie]

Whos the 1st one to use a lockbar insert ? I remember the titanium military being one of if not the 1st not positive though...

 

[shane45-1911]

Whos the 1st one to use a lockbar insert ? I remember the titanium military being one of if not the 1st not positive though...

Strider started using them first on the SMF, although it is a Hinderer design.

Its function is to prevent the frame lock from over-extending outwards when closing the knife. It has no effect on how much the framelock engages the tang.

 

[Biginboca]

Strider started using them first on the SMF, although it is a Hinderer design.

Its function is to prevent the frame lock from over-extending outwards when closing the knife. It has no effect on how much the framelock engages the tang.

You are talking about Lockhart stabilizer not the lockbar insert the rest of the guys are talking about.

 

[shane45-1911]

You are talking about Lockhart stabilizer not the lockbar insert the rest of the guys are talking about.

Indeed I am.

My bad for looking more at the pic, than the words. Sorry guys, carry on.

 

[ferider]

Here’s my take: Ti on Steel tang can work very well, but needs (expensive) manual adjustment when building the knife. When the Ti lock face is carbidized (80+ HRC) only the blade will wear until the knife is broken in, and lock-stick is completely gone.

I have several Ti on Steel Tang Hinderers, and the action is perfect. It’s a beautiful thing: when new, you could see the tang surface breaking in. On the other hand, i have several Ti/Steel Spyderco's, and they stick pretty badly, you can literally see the lock move to the other side over time - due to stick.

On the other hand, steel inserts / Steel on Steel sticks less easily, and I assume are cheaper to assemble - meaning less manual work. My steel insert Spydercos are all great.

 

[WValtakis]

There's a lot of things involved in getting a Ti:steel interface perfect...lockface angle, lockbar pressure, lockface surface texture, carbidized/carburized/bare, etc. A steel insert making it a steel:steel interface takes a lot of the trickiness out of the equation.

 

[MolokaiRider]

I have often sorta wished that for models that have a replaceable insert, a extra one would be provided with the knife.

 

[goldie]

Wvaltakis; you mentoned carbodize; i know this is off topic but i need to say it reminds me of when Charlie mike had a knife under 4oz and said Nutnfancy didn't have to carbodize his penis Ok carry on....

 

[ferider]

Strider started using them first on the SMF, although it is a Hinderer design.

Its function is to prevent the frame lock from over-extending outwards when closing the knife. It has no effect on how much the framelock engages the tang.

Here is my musing of the day .... both steel lockbar insert Hinderer (XM18 Gen5 and up, for instance) and ZT (056[01], for instance) continue to use the LBS even though the lockbar insert prevents over-extending all by itself. The LBS in these newer knives is purely cosmetic

 

[skyhorse]

There's a lot of things involved in getting a Ti:steel interface perfect...lockface angle, lockbar pressure, lockface surface texture, carbidized/carburized/bare, etc. A steel insert making it a steel:steel interface takes a lot of the trickiness out of the equation.

I think that maybe the biggest reason manufactures started using them . Basically a shim in the interface, much easier to get right without risking the entire lock side scale.

 

[skyhorse]

I definitely prefer a lock bar insert. It prevents lock stick and wears less than titanium. I honestly can’t think of any downsides…I don’t know why so many people hate them.

Haven't seen any haters , where are they ?

 

[WValtakis]

Haven't seen any haters , where are they ?

I actually don't like them, they tend to slip easier in my experience. I prefer Ti:steel with just the tiniest hint of stick...as Michael Walker intended

 

[skyhorse]

Whos the 1st one to use a lockbar insert ? I remember the titanium military being one of if not the 1st not positive though...

The first one that really caught my attention was the Gen 2 model ZT 0560 series . I have no idea who employed the first lock bar inserts though ?

 

[rycen]

It’s easier and cheaper to replace a tiny piece of steel than a slab of titanium.

 

[skyhorse]

I actually don't like them, they tend to slip easier in my experience. I prefer Ti:steel with just the tiniest hint of stick...as Michael Walker intended

I agree the insert seems to be slightly more slide prone though it's never been an issue for my use. I never here any complaints about the Chris Reeves non insert frame locks . Mine's about a decade old and still going strong.

 

[skyhorse]

It’s easier and cheaper to replace a tiny piece of steel than a slab of titanium.

I think that's why . I remember some were really worried about lock wear and many decided to carbonize the lock face. Prevention for a problem that possibly didn't need to be fixed ?