The lock bar insert ?

DocJD said:
I have had cheap frame locks travel all the way over 100% , but remained functional .

Having a way to adjust this might be nice to have as insurance on a more expensive model .

Not a burning issue for me . I have mostly back locks . :)
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I have many back locks as well . I remember when this GEC came out and me and a few other guys in traditional were discussing the knife. One fellow was saying his had just a tick of vertical blade play. Seems for this run it was a common problem including mine. 🙁
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The insert is a solution to a problem none of my framelocks have...
 
ferider said:
Here’s my take: Ti on Ti can work very well, but needs (expensive) manual adjustment when building the knife. When the Ti lock face is carbidized (80+ HRC) only the blade will wear until the knife is broken in, and lock-stick is completely gone.

I have several Ti/Ti Hinderers, and the action is perfect. It’s a beautiful thing: when new, you could see the tang surface breaking in. On the other hand, i have several Ti/Ti Spydercos, and they stick pretty badly, you can literally see the lock move to the other side over time - due to stick.

On the other hand, steel inserts stick less easily, and I assume are cheaper to assemble - meaning less manual work. My steel insert Spydercos are all great.
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Do you mean titianum on the steel blade? Which would be Ti on steel. Insert, steel on steel.
 
Geometry is key with or without an insert.

I feel the push came from people wanting an early as possible lockup to prevent excessive lock wear.

Though, in my experience if the geometry is right no insert is required.

I still need to get Bob. T’s updated book to see his progression to utilising an insert. So my opinion might change.
 
I actually have asked a few custom makers what they thought about them, or why they didn't use them. Essentially they all answered the same, If you make it correctly the lock will function perfectly after it settles in. So why add another thing that can malfunction or break when it isn't needed?
 
NorthernSouthpaw said:
I actually have asked a few custom makers what they thought about them, or why they didn't use them. Essentially they all answered the same, If you make it correctly the lock will function perfectly after it settles in. So why add another thing that can malfunction or break when it isn't needed?
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That's the way I see it too . When the ZT0560/61 series came out, ZT had a sub forum here and this issue created quite a buzz. Some people were even having the titanium lock bar carbonized out of caution. ZT eventually came out with a GEN 2 model with the lock bar insert .
 
LionSteel had a helluva time dialing in the lock-rock issue with the DPx HEST/F. It was a notorious issue on the 1.0, marginally better but still present on the 2.0 model, and now I see the 3.0 with an insert. DPx went with an insert straight out of the gate on the Southern Grind made Urban as well.

Not sure why LionSteel had/has an issue with this; they are certainly capable of excellent machining and precision tolerances. Other than their DPx builds, I've not seen a LS frame-lock without an insert.

And then there's Hinderer. I have an older Gen XM-18 sans insert and the lock-up is rock solid (same with all my CRKs, some Taiwanese Spydies, ZT, and my one and only Spartan HF.) Never needed an insert, IMO, but they went ahead and put one on their newer Gens anyway. My old 18 is much smoother than my newer 24 which has a slight tick or pop when disengaging the lock-bar. Why, Rick, why? 🤯

hinderers.jpg

/rant. I feel much better, thank you. 😶
 
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NorthernSouthpaw said:
I actually have asked a few custom makers what they thought about them, or why they didn't use them. Essentially they all answered the same, If you make it correctly the lock will function perfectly after it settles in. So why add another thing that can malfunction or break when it isn't needed?
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The cynic in me suspects that the insert is a way to decrease the number of out-of-spec titanium frames you have to discard. If the lock face is cut wrong, you scrap the entire thing, but if you have a bad insert, it’s easy to swap for a good one. Also easier to harden an insert than the titanium lock face.
 
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