The Macho-ism of being Anti-Macho

[Scott Evans]

When I see threads where by posters are “concerned” that some of our members are over absorbed with “self-defense” possibly harboring secret desires of getting into a fight or making us all look like hypocrites … I wonder???

Dose not such a line of discussion move us into the realm telling others what they should or should not be interested in? How they should think? Or maybe that they should shut up?

Isn’t it really a subtle attempt at “intimidating” fellow forumites to refrain from legitimate knife related topics that they enjoy and have interest in?

Threads such as “Self-defense or Macho” seem to test the waters of the next logical level of this line of thought … that being “ should we allow discussion of knife fighting at all?”

Just wanted to work that bur out from under my saddle.

[This message has been edited by Scott Evans (edited 05 December 1999).]

 

[Razoredj]

I agree. And the topic brings to mind the closely related threads that go on and on to the tune of, "Hey, man, I've been in all kinds of knife fights and street fights during my life growing up on the Mean Streets of Smallsville, and I gotta tell ya, it ain't no picnic, and it's nothing you want to get involved in. That's why I'm such an expert in....blah blah blah...and then this guy stabbed me and somehow through sheer force of will I survived...yadda yadda yadda...so I'm not saying I'm a real tough guy, but..."

You get the idea.

*laugh*

Razor

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AKTI #A000845
And tomorrow when you wake up it will be worse.

 

[misque]

!
Good points...
I love this place!

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So, what IS the speed of dark?

 

[Scott Evans]

Razor,
Also, the nonsense that if you have not experienced a “Knife fight” you cannot talk tactics, training, or mind set. BUNK … Prior planing prevents poor performance. There have been many instances in my life where prior training proved to be the difference. Not looking for the first encounter with a knife but if left with no other way to defend myself I hope to have done my home work.

 

[anthony cheeseboro]

Mr. Evans:

I hope you don't think I want to limit the topics of discussion. As a history professor, I 'm a strong advocate of free speech. Once again, i would like to say that I'm quite aware of the potential of modern tactical knives as weapons. Although I choose to stress the utilitarian nature of such knives, I'm not blind to their defensive potential and i definitely feel that self defense with a knife is valid. I also feel that we should remember that a real knife fight could have devastating legal consequences. What you or I consider self defense, a cop or prosecutor might consider a felony. Imagine coming before a prosecutor while he is questioning you about how many knives or guns you own. Personally, I would want to avoid such a situation because I am a large black man, and whether we want to admit or not, that in and of itself suggests criminality to many people. Still, I don't want to make this a race issue because owning weapons by itself in this society sets a person up for negative stereotypes. Finally, does this mean that I wouldn't defend myself if I had to? Of course not. It simply means that I will take all necessary precaustions to avoid unwarranted conflict.

 

[sing]

Way back when, I suggested we add "tactical forums" to this site. The suggestion was nixed by alot of folks who didn't want to perhaps "sully" the image of the knife as "tool." Well, the knife as "weapon" will remain no matter how wish it to go away or to be discrete about it. The discussions in these forums reflect that.

Well, now a year later and by the pure expansion of this site and the demise of another, we have over 4k members and with it more members who are into -- dare I say it -- "tactical" knives. BF recently added more "tactical" forums as well. This is a good thing. I think discussions of a tactical nature should go to those forums so we don't have the "uneasiness" which shows up every so often in the general forum about this topic area.

Of course, "newbies" will continue to come on and ask in the general forum something like, "What's the best knife to use in self-defense...?" I suggest we gentlely and politely point them to the "tactical forums."

my .0 worth,

sing

AKTI #A000356

 

[Brian_Turner]

I will oppose any effort to limit the free exchange of information on any topic.

There are a variety of forums available here for a variety of interests.

 

[D. Epstein]

Some of the people "in the know" will always talk down to and denigrate those of us who "don't know squat". It's the oldest thing in the world. I tasted it myself not to long ago (Hello, Les

).

But in general, the experts do have more useful things to say than the non-experts.

In this Socratic forum where everybody can say (almost) whatever they want, we tend to equate that with everyone's words having equal validity as well. They don't. But even some of the nonsense is entertaining.

IMHO, the knife is a really poor weapon, but its still better than your fingernails!

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"If they do these things in a green tree, what will they do in a dry?"

 

[James Sass]

Everything that goes on here is fun and interesting. I wouldn't criticize anyone for reading and posting cheezy war stories from smallville, they are fun, interesting, and sometimes instructional.

Now theres a new breed of thread...look at those 'knife fighting' geeks. C'mon...lighten up. I could post a thread about the predominance of people at knife and gun shows with eating disorders, but I dont. Thats their business.

One of the reasons I think the tactical areas of this site are so good is that they take place under the auspices of serious interest in all aspects of cutlery. I think Larry Mousel tried to start a forum that was exclusively martial arts oriented. The posts read like transcriptions of the most ignorant segments of a professional wrestling tv show.

Bladeforums.com provides a civil atmosphere for detailed discussions on any related topics. Its simple...there are a ton of posts here on a lot of subjects, if you don't like one, read something else.

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"The snake that cannot shed its skin perishes.
So do thinkers who cannot change their opinions;
they cease to think."
-NIETZSCHE

 

[FullerH]

What concerns me is the attitude shown by some that anybody who does not carry a knife or is distressed by an armed person is some kind of a sheep. I was raised in a military family and own and shoot firearms and collect and carry knives, but I converted to Quakerism some years back and I know many who have made thae decision not to arm themselves. They do not believe in arms for religious reasons, but that, in and of itself, does not make them sheep. I may disagree with them, I would protect me and mine from predators, but I do respect their right to feel that way. Interestingly enough, I have discovered that meembers of my Meeting now come to me when they need to open something with a knife, as the cutlery at the Meeting House is not, shall we say, keen.

The above said, there are people who are genuinely afraid, and for them I prefer Col. Jeff Cooper's term, "hoplophobe", from the Greek "hoplon" for the large shield that the ancient Greek warrior carried, and "phobos" for fear. In other words, one afraid of an armed person.

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Walk in the Light,
Hugh Fuller
Arlington, Virginia

 

[James Sass]

I have tremendous respect for anyone who has the courage of their convictions, whether I may agree with them entirely or not. That may be the definitive feature of the TRUE nonconformist. ie: "non-sheep."

 

[Ebbtide]

Just because you are not a sheep, it doesn't make you a wolf.

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Can it core a apple?

 

[Paracelsus]

I guess I am interested in this discussion after all! I don't want to be a sheep. But I'm not a wolf either. The idea of being a wolf usually has some seriously negative connotations (see any of those werewolf movies). The sheep analogy is equally ugly (don't those guys Always end up as victims?).

I am not sure what kind of critter I'd most like to be since I am very comfortable with my human shape. I'm not a leader, and I'm not a follower. I find my own way. I carry knives mostly for their utility as tools, not as weapons. But if I was in a situation where my knife could help save mine, or some elses life, then I suppose it would suddenly become a weapon. I don't love knives Because they are weapons. But some people do. And That's just fine with me.

It seems to me that some of this argument between the knives as weapons guys and the knives as tools guys is pointless. Each position is right and correct. Both are valid viewpoints and legitimate topics for discussions in these forums. Some of the more weapons related discussions could be directed to the Tactical Forums, if only to avoid offending some of the more peacable amongst us. But I would never think it right to tell someone that discussing knives for defense, or as weapons, is inappropriate. Both viewpoints have their place. We all make decisions every time we come here about which topics we are going to read and respond too. And neither viewpoint is more sheepish, right, wrong, aggressive, or macho. Find your own way.

Paracelsus

(By the way, I agree with the sentiment expressed by the topic. There are wolves on both sides of this issue)

[This message has been edited by Paracelsus (edited 08 December 1999).]

 

[johno]

The true non-conformist calls most other people sheep, just like all of the other true non-conformists ? Bah ah ah :^)

 

[Oregon Duck]

It seems to me that a good metaphorical choice for a person who doesn't want to be called a sheep or a wolf is that of of a dog or cat. Civilized enough to get along, dangerous if need be.

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Never confuse movement with action.

Ernest Hemingway

 

[James Sass]

I'm firmly in the Wolf camp.

The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language defines 'machismo' as "a strong or exaggerated sense of masulinity." It is derived from the spanish word for "male." I suppose its mostly used to indicate someone acting absurd in fear of being thought of as a "sissy."

I study knife fighting for some time now. It never ocurred to me that I could be "macho." Maybe I should train wearing the top three buttons of my shirt open, with some gold chains dangling, and smoke a Marlboro. So noone mistakes me for a knife-fighting sissy.