The Market Value of a Knife

delander

delander

Joined
Dec 20, 2004
Messages
567
From time-to-time the question about the "value" of a particular knife is posted here.
Now, before we get started, please bear in mind that this is quite simply my own opinion and worth exactly how much you pay me for it.
There are many factors that might influence the value other than condition, uniqueness, etc.
Some of these are: completing a set or series, sentimental value, fondness for that particular model and wishing to 'gift' one to someone special, etc., etc.
Therefore, fundamentally, the "value' to me is what I am willing to pay for it, or, sell it for, at that moment in time.
However, if a significant number of the same, or substantially similar knives have been sold within a recent time period (say 2 - 4 months as market conditions can change), then one can average out the selling prices and arrive at a relatively 'decent' current market value.
That being said, it really boils down to what a willing buyer will pay to a willing seller at any given point in time.
 
I guess this is where this should have been posted.
I take my hat off to you big heart I agree totally with your definition. Collectable markets like most things go through stages. New collectors who are today enthralled with finding an 8-OT will as the disease ( collecting these, continues it's progress), mature in there understanding, and as they accquire this knowledge and more spendable income, they will no longer seek the mundane and will begin seeking the truly rare items. This knowledge and the desire to possess these items is what creates future markets but, more importantly keeps this history alive.

New collectors are perhapes most important factor in keeping this type of pursuit growing. They represent the future of this history and believe me it is but a twinkle of the eye when 30 or 40 years passes. Knives that many consider relics are still in my user kit bag. In fact I recently took out about 6 knives I have used for years and replaced them with the newer tang marked versions. They as I, have apparently become relics ( they however can be saved ).

There is an old saying he who understands the past controls the future, and he who controls the future, controls the present. This is true in most things but this subject is a perfect example of that statment.

The fact is that the educated, informed, and continually learning collector is its best resource. That is why informed people can still find bargains at flea markets and auction. you have heard all the old cliches one mans treasure is another junk, Knowledge is power,ect, well they may be trite but the are none the less true. These items were created for in some cases pennies and mainly for the sole purpose of being useful tools. It is for those who see the beauty and history of these items to assign whatever monetary values they wish to place on them to own them and in so doing keeping there history alive.

So in several hundred words I have reiterated what Big heart said less than a paragraph. Every time I win a bid on ebay I say to myself Humm 10,000,000 people viewing this stuff on line and I am the only one who would spend this much money for it, How smart can that be? Then I say to myself Oh well I would rather be able to die, being able to say I owned it rather than I wanted it.

I had an old poker buddy of mine whose liver gave out before his spirit did ( his liver won the argument ) . He used to say if you are in a game and you have to stop and think about a bet ( or a play ) always just "Throw it in " You might lose but people will know you are serious and you will never have any doubts whether or not you did the right thing. LT
 
I did an interesting study this year. I carefully followed several specific patterns of common Schrade knives and logged the detail of every one of them that came across ebay for four months. I got a good feel for the fluctuating market values, buyer enthusiasm, and seller hype. To have been a pure study, I should have remained neutral. But I picked up some nice pieces at prices I thought were fair, almost always below the going price trend. Also, I found the market to be so fluid, that to say there was a certain value on one of the patterns for all four months would be false. I don't see how a "price guide" or "Bluebook" could ever be written on such a moving target as Schrade prices. But the study did allow me to see the CURRENT trends at all times, and buy counter to the market, just as I did with coins, silver and gold back in the seventies and eighties. This time, I was not in it for profit. I was in it for the education, and to add to my collection with the most knives for the buck. But I can honestly say that while I sometimes paid far less than the value (to me), I never paid more than a knife was worth to me. I just bought my "holdout knife", the lowley, common, made since Lincoln was President 8OT. And I did so for $8.50. Last MSRP was $37.95 in 2004, and my idea of the value of the knife falls about midway between the two, around $20-25. I might now buy a second one sometime, but the value to me is no longer $20-25, because I have one, so unless one has some special characteristics, to me it would have a value in the $10-15 range. Does any of this make sense or did I just waste electrons and webspace?

Codger
 
Codger, you hit it dead on. When I decide that you want a specific pattern that I don't yet have, I am willing to pay more for it. Then, once I aquire it, I can sit back and get the second one on my terms. I'm glad to see that someone else (besides me) is willing to admit it.
 
Codger, you're a great observer, that's probably why you have such an interest in history and are helping to record Schrade's history in this forum. Everytime I think I've discovered a pattern in the marketplace regarding the sale of Schrades, and for my purposes that's really confined to what's happening on eBay, it falls apart. I used to think that bargains were usually only found in the off-hour or on a Monday or Tuesday during the week as opposed to the much heavier traffic on the weekend. Tonight, not more than an hour ago, I picked up a new 152OT 100 year Anniversary knife w/o sheath, for just $26 and change. Now, I don't know what this knife usually sells for, but I see new regular 152OT's sell for $30.00-$50.00 all the time. In fact, there were a bunch of good deals tonight, I wonder if Sunday Night Football might have something to do with it? ;)
 
I dunno. The best pattern I've figured is..... there is none! I just got the mint True Value Sharpfinger MM152 for $15 a little while ago. Wanna trade?

Codger
 
This DU went cheap tonight:

1010053.jpg


and this DU 97OT w/o tools went for $8.50, the seller had 5 of them:

104002.jpg
 
Redshanks,
I was going to post and agree that there were some good deals tonight. When I got to your post I found the pic of the DU 97OT that I just won! :D
I thought it was a great price for that knife as most of them go around the $25-$30 range. I can live without the box at that price!
The seller was apparently not very familiar with Shrade knives. In the description they said; "At the very end, above the last rivet there is a piece of the handle missing.. The other side is exactly the same and I do not know why."
Well.........I know why.....it is missing the toothpick & the tweezers. I have another 97OT mint in box and can get the toothpick & tweezers from it for display purposes.

Inspired by Codger's "Middlefinger" and another 152 someone had re-handled, so I picked up a "well used" 152 tonight for $5.99. The knife looks like it is in pretty good shape, for the price. Anyway it looks like a fun project. I got a piece of redheart the other day that might make a nice handle. :)
Thanks tor the inspiration Codger :D
 
Does any one know the most popular and most sold model of knife that Schrade ever sold was? Far and away the all time best seller was an Old Timer and yes it was the Old reliable carbon bladed 8-OT . LT
 
LT, I have several different versions of the 8OT and it's one of my favorite patterns. My newest looks like an unfinished Copenhagen because it's missing the coin. Then again, maybe it's a parts knife because the tang does not have the COPE marking. It's still a nice knife in black and gold.

40_12.jpg
 
This is true, but then there are those who go by the collector books and will price there knives as rated. Of course we all know that just because you put a price on something that does not mean that it is worth it, or that you will get that price for it. In the last 20+ plus years the interest in collecting has really grown so the chances of getting more "bites" is much greater than it use to be. But also on the other hand, with the interent, ebay, and "flood" of knife stores (out there), the chances of getting better prices is not always so.

It really comes down to all these factors just being "relative".
 
Exactly. And for that reason, I am very cautious about using the word "rare", or giving knife values. I have run up against sellers who saw one knife like theirs go for much more than it's value, and try to get that for theirs. A single, or two, or three sales do not change the true value of a knife, and only reflect the value of that knife to that particular buyer. Once he has gotten his fill of them, he is no longer influencing the real market, and his inflated purchase price is nothing more than an anomaly. Or a truely scarce (better word here) or uncommon knife might hit the market a dozen at a time, and the demand is quickly satisfied at their value, and the rest go for less money than even the common base model of that knife in mint condition. An example is the Master Mechanic Sharpfinger for twenty or less. After buying my 8OT for less than ten (less than value), I watched another go for sixty (over value).

Codger
 
Codger_64 said:
Exactly. And for that reason, I am very cautious about using the word "rare", or giving knife values. I have run up against sellers who saw one knife like theirs go for much more than it's value, and try to get that for theirs. A single, or two, or three sales do not change the true value of a knife, and only reflect the value of that knife to that particular buyer. Once he has gotten his fill of them, he is no longer influencing the real market, and his inflated purchase price is nothing more than an anomaly. Or a truely scarce (better word here) or uncommon knife might hit the market a dozen at a time, and the demand is quickly satisfied at their value, and the rest go for less money than even the common base model of that knife in mint condition. An example is the Master Mechanic Sharpfinger for twenty or less. After buying my 8OT for less than ten (less than value), I watched another go for sixty (over value).

Codger
Click to expand...

Mike, you lost me at that last turn.
You said: "A single, or two, or three sales do not change the true value of a knife, and only reflect the value of that knife to that particular buyer. "
Then you state: "After buying my 8OT for less than ten (less than value), I watched another go for sixty (over value)."

Isn't this exactly what I said at the top of this thread?
"The value is what a willing buyer will pay to a willing seller and the willing seller will accept, at any given point in time."
 
Del, I believe your original premise is valid regarding market value and the point that Codger is making has less to do with true market value and more about anomalies, is equally valid. You do know that Codger doesn't pay market price for anything, he has a knack for rooting out real bargains.

I have watched several people bidding on a certain item until the price is sky high. One of them wins and the other loses, for the time being. The next time the same item is offered, the loser of the first auction usually gets it for less than he would have had to pay for the first one. The third time that this item is listed it often goes begging because the temporary demand has been satisfied. As you point out, this does not reflect the true market value, but as Ol' Codger was saying, this is when he buys. ;)
 
Talking about market value, LT picked up a new unmarked Schrade Bowie a couple of days ago for $75.00 and was the only bidder. I couldn't believe it didn't generate more interest and go for more money. I wonder if some of the steam has gone out of the Schrade collectable market?
 
The market is getting saturated somewhat. Add up all the stock that was on retailer's shelves, all the stock Schrade had on hand, both newly manufactured, results of overrun stocks, orders packed that the court would not let them ship, "Last-of-days" knives rushed through production to boost net worth, in-house samples, the reject bins, the stuff small dealers had, the knives Mom and Pop decided to part with, several large collections being dispersed, small collectors rearranging their collections, and just Joe and Jane pulling out forgotten knives from the drawers and closets, that is a lot of knives. I believe that the prices on a lot of patterns will soften further this fall and winter. Best deals right now are on the newer patterns that were only produced for a year and a half, or even just a half year. The common slipjoints are also coming down. Not everyone wants a dozen 897UH's.

Codger
 
Codger, when you say best deals, do you mean knives like the X-Timers, the Safe-T Grips, and Avatars or something else? I did buy a 140OT and a 141OT, and to be honest, I wasn't impressed with them. Granted, for $10 or $15 I wouldn't expect much, but they reminded me of the knives made by Apex in Ireland.
 
I did not say "best knives". I bought a fair sampling of the last introduced knives just to have a look-see at what they were trying to accomplish... where they were trying to increase market shares and what their quality of design, materials and assembly was. For the most part, I was not impressed. Four to six variations in finish to six or ten or so "new" designs, they were all over the map. The Safe-T-Grip series was produced earlier, and to me at least, does not fit into the catagory I call "space debris". I've grown kind of fond of that series, and it's "updated versions", the X-Timers. Not bad at all for modern designs and materials. The Apex lines, and the whole Irish Imperial production was not much different than the U.S. Imperial line was to the OT/UH line of Schrade Walden. It was meant to be cheaper in design, materials, and retail cost.

The deals will be in the knives, love 'em or hate 'em, like the 49OT Rhino, the 6OTX, 7OTX, SQ877, and some of the other "space debris" varients that were only produced for a short while. And then, only for a collector trying to get a truly representative collection, complete a series, or have some cheap, functional users with the Schrade U.S.A. name on them. At $40, the Rhino was a dud. At $10, it is a deal. The Cable lock was interesting, but not worth, to me, $32.00. But it will become collectable just because they were not made for even one year. Right now, they are uncommon. In ten years they will be scarce. In twenty years? So if you can get one for $15-20, that could be a deal.

Codger - longwinded as always.
 
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