The Members Discussion Thread

Non-axe related forge time...
(a rare instance where i get to forge for a few precious hours in the midst of summer chore madness...it was an obligation,to a young mechanical engineering student staying at our compound;he's an intern for our local bio-fuel utility for local school district,and we meant all summer to do some forging to introduce him to the mystery of black metallurgy...and only just got around to it...:(...).

Project has this "culturally appropriate" factor,we do live in "indian country" here.
Athabaskan people are the largest language group in North America.Their territories stretched from Alaska clear across Canada to the Atlantic,and from here southto Mexican border and beyond.
Theirs was a "fully chalcolithic" culture,deforming copper plastically,and Cu it was that formedthe economic basis/standard for their world.
This is a copy/take on a man's knife that they forged out of copper,which occurs in metallic("native metal",not related to Native people)form at several locations across N.America.
When Europeans started invading,somehow the Cu forging skills translated directly into steel forging.
Material was scarce in the Arctic,and any chunk of steel was welcome.But especially handy were objects of a proven quality,saws,chisels,and of course files.
Later knives made of files are very common in collections,more so than the Cu originals.
So here's a take on an Athabaskan man's knife,as forged today by Zach and i,in the interests of archaeometallurgy,and metallurgy in general,and just pain Fun...:)

https://imgur.com/a/QumBHKV

Material-file,with teeth ground off(only left in one small spot to make it easier for future archaeologist:)
It'll be left as is,no HT,as was also historically correct(barring better research,not much is known about these,by Athabaskans themselves including;missionaries did their foul duty thoroughly and local culture was virtually erased).
I've got some moose rawhide soaking to wrap the grip tomorrow.
 
jake pogg said:
Non-axe related forge time...
(a rare instance where i get to forge for a few precious hours in the midst of summer chore madness...it was an obligation,to a young mechanical engineering student staying at our compound;he's an intern for our local bio-fuel utility for local school district,and we meant all summer to do some forging to introduce him to the mystery of black metallurgy...and only just got around to it...:(...).

Project has this "culturally appropriate" factor,we do live in "indian country" here.
Athabaskan people are the largest language group in North America.Their territories stretched from Alaska clear across Canada to the Atlantic,and from here southto Mexican border and beyond.
Theirs was a "fully chalcolithic" culture,deforming copper plastically,and Cu it was that formedthe economic basis/standard for their world.
This is a copy/take on a man's knife that they forged out of copper,which occurs in metallic("native metal",not related to Native people)form at several locations across N.America.
When Europeans started invading,somehow the Cu forging skills translated directly into steel forging.
Material was scarce in the Arctic,and any chunk of steel was welcome.But especially handy were objects of a proven quality,saws,chisels,and of course files.
Later knives made of files are very common in collections,more so than the Cu originals.
So here's a take on an Athabaskan man's knife,as forged today by Zach and i,in the interests of archaeometallurgy,and metallurgy in general,and just pain Fun...:)

https://imgur.com/a/QumBHKV

Material-file,with teeth ground off(only left in one small spot to make it easier for future archaeologist:)
It'll be left as is,no HT,as was also historically correct(barring better research,not much is known about these,by Athabaskans themselves including;missionaries did their foul duty thoroughly and local culture was virtually erased).
I've got some moose rawhide soaking to wrap the grip tomorrow.
Click to expand...
That's a great idea and real nice little knife. I hope it sparks his interest in smithing as you hope. Very nice thing to do Jake! Good on you man.
I saw a Colombian post vice for sale yesterday but it WASN'T a deal so my list of Smithing tools is still nonexistent. What you did there is inspiring. I'd really love to do that with my son. Thanks for sharing!
 
jake pogg said:
Non-axe related forge time...
(a rare instance where i get to forge for a few precious hours in the midst of summer chore madness...it was an obligation,to a young mechanical engineering student staying at our compound;he's an intern for our local bio-fuel utility for local school district,and we meant all summer to do some forging to introduce him to the mystery of black metallurgy...and only just got around to it...:(...).

Project has this "culturally appropriate" factor,we do live in "indian country" here.
Athabaskan people are the largest language group in North America.Their territories stretched from Alaska clear across Canada to the Atlantic,and from here southto Mexican border and beyond.
Theirs was a "fully chalcolithic" culture,deforming copper plastically,and Cu it was that formedthe economic basis/standard for their world.
This is a copy/take on a man's knife that they forged out of copper,which occurs in metallic("native metal",not related to Native people)form at several locations across N.America.
When Europeans started invading,somehow the Cu forging skills translated directly into steel forging.
Material was scarce in the Arctic,and any chunk of steel was welcome.But especially handy were objects of a proven quality,saws,chisels,and of course files.
Later knives made of files are very common in collections,more so than the Cu originals.
So here's a take on an Athabaskan man's knife,as forged today by Zach and i,in the interests of archaeometallurgy,and metallurgy in general,and just pain Fun...:)

https://imgur.com/a/QumBHKV

Material-file,with teeth ground off(only left in one small spot to make it easier for future archaeologist:)
It'll be left as is,no HT,as was also historically correct(barring better research,not much is known about these,by Athabaskans themselves including;missionaries did their foul duty thoroughly and local culture was virtually erased).
I've got some moose rawhide soaking to wrap the grip tomorrow.
Click to expand...

7wdgKGm.jpg


That is super cool Jake! The fact that you made it as an endeavor to show someone is even more so.
If you need a box of old files for fodder...
 
Thanks,guys...Yes,Agent_H,i think that Education is the Only worthwhile aim of my forging anymore...but what a worthwhile one!:)

Josh,that'd be the greatest thing, you'll both enjoy it tremendously!
It's too bad you couldn't justify getting this vise,i'm sure you'll chance into a good one sooner or later.
But remember,that post-vises,large anvils,and other tools of that scope we associate with forging today are merely the Industrial era,a short period in metalworking history,and has to do with forging precise machine parts.
Pre-industrial forging was much more hands-on,simple,human-scale...Used very few tools,and arguably was closer to our understanding and perception...Quite possibly a better choice of style for kids especially... Some neat Colonial-era stuff?...

A bit of info on these,if anyone's interested...:

https://warriorpublications.wordpre...s-and-daggers-of-the-pacific-northwest-coast/

https://www.penn.museum/sites/expedition/metallurgy-of-the-tlingit-dene-and-eskimo/
 
Agent_H said:
If you need a box of old files for fodder...
Click to expand...

Agent_H,thank you,very kind of ya,but i rarely use files as material....(i'd also et that what's "old" files to you is 10x better than what i use as files!:)...so i wouldn't have the heart...:)

This was a rare occasion when it was kinda fitting,historically and so on.
Good new steel is inexpensive,and i'd encourage anyone to choose that route,if only to minimise already significant risk-factor.
File teeth are labor-intensive and tedious to grind off,and if not done thoroughly it's very likely that forging will fail in HT,those pesky crevices acting as stress-risers...
(even in principle,when file teeth are struck into the blank,the impact may've rearranged the structure microscopically,and all that jazz...It just better to avoid All post-industrial mat's).
This was a beautiful old 10" Nucut,entirely ruined though(not by me!).Another issue is that the newer the file the less certainty that it's a suitable alloy.
And even the best ones are a plain-carbon steel,1095 or W1,easily obtainable in new,Passported/data-sheeted/Pedigreed!:)..manner...
 
jake pogg said:
Thanks,guys...Yes,Agent_H,i think that Education is the Only worthwhile aim of my forging anymore...but what a worthwhile one!:)

Josh,that'd be the greatest thing, you'll both enjoy it tremendously!
It's too bad you couldn't justify getting this vise,i'm sure you'll chance into a good one sooner or later.
But remember,that post-vises,large anvils,and other tools of that scope we associate with forging today are merely the Industrial era,a short period in metalworking history,and has to do with forging precise machine parts.
Pre-industrial forging was much more hands-on,simple,human-scale...Used very few tools,and arguably was closer to our understanding and perception...Quite possibly a better choice of style for kids especially... Some neat Colonial-era stuff?...

A bit of info on these,if anyone's interested...:

https://warriorpublications.wordpre...s-and-daggers-of-the-pacific-northwest-coast/

https://www.penn.museum/sites/expedition/metallurgy-of-the-tlingit-dene-and-eskimo/
Click to expand...
Thanks for that Jake. I actually forgot I do have a 122lb anvil. The sad part is that my uncle's pillaged all my grandfathers smithing tools over the years. And his now dilapidated blacksmith shop sits there bereft of any of his old tools. The vice was $335(odd price i thought). I could've afforded it no problem but there's a couple other things I'm after. My son is away for the summer so I've got time to get a forge and post vice. You're right though i could make do with what I've got now!

jake pogg said:
And even the best ones are a plain-carbon steel,1095 or W1,easily obtainable in new,Passported/data-sheeted/Pedigreed!:)..manner...
Click to expand...
Do you know what steel the Grobet inox files afte made from? Hrc72. The one I bought is just incredible. It's going to last a couple years of regular use at least.
 
Yankee Josh said:
Do you know what steel the Grobet inox files afte made from? Hrc72. The one I bought is just incredible. It's going to last a couple years of regular use at least.
Click to expand...

Hmm..."Inox"(-idable) presumably would be stainless.Among ss alloys there are only a few hardenable ones,but "few" is relative only to 600+ of those all together...
Proprietary alloys And their proper HT are very jealously guarded;you and i will never know what exactly that is(i've once caused a scandal at Cat headquarters by calling and asking such questions about something i was curious about:).
But a good chance that it's some alphabet soup of micro-alloying elements,Cr/Mo/V/Ti and on down the entire periodic table!
Pretty hopeless to attempt to HT in the backyard,that i'm fairly certain of!:)

And yes,Josh,it's great that you have an anvil,that's all you really need.
Actually,making your own tongs was a traditional way to qualify as a smith...And making tools is fun,and for kids especially it speaks more clearly,it just makes sense,you know...
(and among JB's treasues there're SO many sexy forging tools,too...if you'd need something that is just too much hassle to make...)
Columbian is an uber reputable,quality tool line and all that,but i'd not worry about one's vise being of too great a quality...I'd definitely wait till a rerasonable deal comes your way.
Actually,post-vises are not easy to use.They don't holds stuff all that great and require a bit of getting used to because of that.
A cheap/trashed/otherwise unloved machinist vise can be sacrificed,and will serve actually better(you just don't want to strike it heavily;other than that it'll just loose temper of the jaws,and that is even easily remedied by replacement if need be).

No,the old adage still holds:"Tools don't make a blacksmith/Blacksmith makes the tools".:)
And That would be a great lesson for the young,like as in we'll start with very little,and see how clever we are and how much can be done!:)
 
Dang, I thought i was looking at something that would be cool to check out and then i looked at the dates! :(
 
I finally finished this little project I've had in mind for a couple months. Nothing too fancy but it'll work. My cousin threw out a futon awhile back. The ends are solid maple and I couldn't just throw them out. So I thought of a use! In this photo all but the top layer is done.
8zyo3nR.jpg

For the bottom supports and the top layer I repurposed some old 2x4's from a camp my grandfather built a looooong time ago.
pI8csn7.jpg
qUjBLIe.jpg

Anybody have a suggestion what I can treat the wood with to make it a little fire retardant? It's only been drying for 80 years now.... lol. I can't wait to get some sort of forge figured out!
 
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