The Mustard's Been Splattered

T

truck

Joined
Jan 22, 2002
Messages
658
I hope you guys are right about the mustard patina. Actually, if I just trashed the thing, I can keep it:D The downside would be that I'd have to get another for my Daughter. As for results, thin seems to be in. The knife started to tarnish almost immediately. Right now, it looks damn ugly. In a few more hours, I can clean it up and start prepping for coat number two. As for the final step, I believe that I'm supposed to oil it. Is there anything special that I'm supposed to do to the khuk when the oil is on the blade, or just let it sit? I didn't seem to notice anything when I was reading the thread.
 
You're on the right track. More etches even out the mottling. Sometimes you get nice hues in there.
Remember, if you don't like it, you can give it a rub down with a scotch brite pad and then successively high grits of paper to return to a satin finish, and then buff it on a wheel (see Pen's posts and sharpening CD) to get the mirror finish back.
 
Coat #2 of mustard is currently drying on one of my khuks, and it is coming out pretty good. If your khuk doesn't look dark enough for you from the mustard, you can wipe on some blueing solution and run it with some steel wool. Then just cover it with oil and let it hang for a day or two. I think the mustard pattern looks better, but blueing might provide a bit more protection for the metal.
 
thanks for the update, glad to hear it is going well. I'm taking the mustard to one of mine. Keep us posted on how it is coming. =)
 
Coat no2 is now starting to dry. The blade is definately much darker. While I can easily see why people can see a damascus similarity, it's not particularly attractive looking at the moment. I have tried this sort of thing before with a Marbles, and a Cold Steel blade. So far, this finish seems much tougher than what I got with the other two. I have no clue why. The only difference between them so far is that I used random food items on the first two and definately didn't leave it on as long between coats. I have also learned that I have no steel wool in the house, at the moment. Still, the scrubbing side of the dish sponge didn't seem to remove much discoloration:)
 
This is going to sound like a smart alleck remark, but I'm aging a blade now using Worcestershire sauce. I think I'll try a coat of mustard tonight. Tobasco sauce, cirus juices work too. I think anything acid will make funny colored oxide and sulfide compounds on the surface, which is what you want. Wash off with dish detergent, and then polish with 4/0 steel wool when it's dry.
Brian
 
"I think anything acid will make funny colored oxide and sulfide compounds on the surface, which is what you want.

Close. Lots of things should do the trick.

But unless you live next to paper mill or the like, things like mustard, onions, or horse-radish will be required to get sulfides. I also suspect that iron sulfides will rather quickly convert to oxides. But such resulting oxides/etch may be different than those produced in other ways, and have a differnt appearance and properties. This may be why a thick coating of mustrad is less effective--harder for oxygen to reach the blade.

As far as hot sauces go , I have no reason to believe that the compounds that make chilis taste hot would have any particular propensity to react with steel or iron. Since apples and other not especially acidic fruits can stain blades, there may be other things in peppers that that will stain the blade. Hotness is probably not a good predictor--ammount ov salt, vinegar, etc is probably more important.

The compounds that are released by cutting onions or grinding mustard that are responsible for much of the taste, on the other hand, do react with steel. I've stained a blade with with mustard that did not contain any vinegar (just mustard, water, salt, spices) and with wasibi powder reconstituted with water.

Haven't done any stuff made of 5160 yet (done Ericson, Karasuando, and Okapi), but I did notice a pretty big variation in the behavior of different blades. I was a little surprised that the Karasuando and Ericson blades behaved quite differently. The Okapi blade pitted very rapidly in warm vinegar, and actually released visible bubbles!
 
Took a good sniff of the Penknife that I slopped yellow hot-dog mustard on tonight, and if I'm not crazy, I smelled sulfur. Now, I studied chemistry way back in the days when senses like sight and smell were considered valid indicators.
I'm thinking sulfides are the coloring agents on patinated blades.
Brian
 
Anyone try soy sauce yet?

There's lots of salt to increase 'rusting'.

And I'd guess it's acidic.

--------------------------

Had read about Hydrogen Peroxide as a patinator
(is that a word?)
& picked up some 40% H2O2 a while back at a beauty supply
store that sells hair products (remember peroxide blondes?).
Still haven't tried it.

I first read about it here:
http://magichammer.freeservers.com/metal_finishes.htm
previously posted:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=207742
over a year ago.
Someone on that thread suggested CLR & Windex for a patina.
 
Originally posted by truck
:eek: RUST :eek:
Click to expand...

No, CONTROLLED RUST!!!! Seriously it really is.:D

I happened to remember this morning that the imported white wine vinegar is cut to 7% instead of the usual 5%. I tried the mustard on a couple of blades that I'm gonna use for the kardas in my Foxy's Folly when it gets to me.
It wasn't going fast enough for me so I went to the vinegar with a dash of Dawn, poured some of the 7% stuff in it as well as the standard 5% vinegar. It seems to be working faster, but I'm not sure if it's as fast as the plain vinegar,
 
"Took a good sniff of the Penknife that I slopped yellow hot-dog mustard on tonight, and if I'm not crazy, I smelled sulfur. Now, I studied chemistry way back in the days when senses like sight and smell were considered valid indicators. I'm thinking sulfides are the coloring agents on patinated blades."

Smell and sight are still valid indicators. In this case, the indication is that small volatile sulfer compounds are in the air.

If you smell sulfur compounds, they aren't bound to the blade, are they? They have to be free to waft up to your nose. This doesn't necessarily mean that they are strongly bound to the blade, too. Put some mustard on a piece of glass in the same manner and compare the smell. If it doesn't smell the same on the glass, the steel is an intermediary in forming and releasing the sulfur in the form of different volatile componds.

Many iron-sulfur comounds react so vigorously with atmospheric oxygen that they are pyrophoric--they oxidize so fast that they ignite. They are studied in enclosures scrupiously kept free of the tiniest amount of oxygen (glovebox under purified nitrogen or argon, vacuum line, etc). I think that what you smell is sulfer containing products that are released after the initially formed iron sulfides have reacted with air-borne oxygen. There may be some mixed sulfide, oxide compounds remaining on the blade, but I suspect that eventually only oxides are left.

There are quite a few possibilites for complex iron oxides of mixed valence. Red rust is only one of many possibilities. Also, due to interference effects, the thickness and morphology of the oxide layer will contribute to the color. That's why some patinas are irridescent like oil on water.
 
YVSA,
I was just being silly, my khuk is coming along nicely. I think I will probably try something a little stronger somewhere along the line to try to darken it further though. I haven't cleaned mine up for a couple of days now so it should be interesting to see how the last coat worked out. It never fails that work always spoils your good times:D
 
Originally posted by truck
YVSA,
I was just being silly, my khuk is coming along nicely. It never fails that work always spoils your good times:D
Click to expand...

Me too.:rolleyes: :p ;) :D
I left my blades in the vinegar mixture overnight and had very little change in color.
This morning I took both outta the pan and laid them on the edge of it.
Since then both blades have developed a great deal of rust, just hope that when I'm done and they're oiled up that it's black rust and not red.
Black rust is patination, red rust is just rust and undesirable.:rolleyes: :eek: :(
 
YVSA,
I think it's safe to say that we don't get out much LOL. Every once in awhile I make the mistake of telling a sheeple about the things I do with my knives. They never understand:D
 
I mustard etched my "practice" AC Assam Rifles khukuri and really like the results! I used a synthetic "sea sponge" from Walmart to apply the mustard- you know, the ones that are used for doing decorative painting effects. It worked great for creating a thin, random but even pattern on the steel. If I can get hold of a decent digital camera I might post a picture...

Thanks for the mustard tip!!! Fun stuff.

Geoffrey
 
The sponge is a fine idea. I've only used the pad of my finger.
I like the results.
Tom
 
Do these patina causing substances only work on certain kinds of steel. The mustard didn't work very well for me, so on my 15" Sirupati I wrapped the blade with paper towels, soaked them with apple cider vinager, them wrapped the whole blade in Saran Wrap. I came out a beautiful color with an obvious and symetrical difference in the sweet spot of the blade. I assume that this means correct hardening. However, on another Khukuri that I have that is suppose to be made of railroad track instead of spring steel, I tried the mustard overnight like others have. When I washed it off in the morning it did not have the staining at all and worse of all it has what looks like black pitting. I can't really feel deep pits but even with 220 grit I can't get it off. Is there a difference in the reaction of the steels. Also, on my BAS I got a beautiful staining with the vinager after only a couple of hours, but no difference in color around the sweet spot. Does this mean that it is hardened wrong or that the knife is the same hardness all over?
 
Originally posted by cucharadedragon
Do these patina causing substances only work on certain kinds of steel.

Also, on my BAS I got a beautiful staining with the vinager after only a couple of hours, but no difference in color around the sweet spot. Does this mean that it is hardened wrong or that the knife is the same hardness all over?
Click to expand...

Cuch, I think they do. If the sweet spot on your BAS repels a good file pretty much I don't think you have anything to worry about. If it is hard, it is hard and as long as it has served you well simly enjoy it.

For a really interesting patina... Do what Broken Arrow, another HI Forumite that doesn't get around here much anymore, did to his Sundang and Bolo from Kris Cutlery.:eek:
He used ferric chloride and cold blue at the same time on a spotlessly clean blade. Both came out with a very impressive and stunning patina!!!!!!!:D It was a striking grey and blue color, of course it helps if you live south of the Mason Dixon line.;)
One of these days!!!!
 
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