Hi, I just started reading this forum so I might have missed this in the past but has anyone used carbide for starter? An old guy showed me this years ago. He carried a film canister taped shut full of calcium carbide "rocks" and all you need to start a flame is water and spark. I have used this many times, you can even spit on the c.c. to start the reaction. I liked to stick one or two in a snow ball and watch peaples faces when I light it and have a flame coming out the top of the snowball, not a very common sight.
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The New Tinder Challenge...Are You Up For It?
- Thread starter Greg Davenport
- Start date
Ice,
That sounds wonderful! Fire from SNOW an WATER! these are exactly the conditions that I would consider the worst for fire starting.
Where do you get the calcium carbide from? Any safety concern (high reactivity? explosion or fire in backpack?)? Is it better to store in air-tight, WATER-TIGHT metal canister?
I am going to check in Merck Index as soon as I can.
I am looking forward to hearing more about it from you or others.
HM
That sounds wonderful! Fire from SNOW an WATER! these are exactly the conditions that I would consider the worst for fire starting.
Where do you get the calcium carbide from? Any safety concern (high reactivity? explosion or fire in backpack?)? Is it better to store in air-tight, WATER-TIGHT metal canister?
I am going to check in Merck Index as soon as I can.
I am looking forward to hearing more about it from you or others.
HM
H.M. I'm not sure where you can buy it in your area. I bought mine years back in Colo. It was available in most stores that carried mining supplies. Yes you most defenetly must keep it in an air tight container as it will react with the moister in the air and turn into a pile of powder. It would only be an explosive if the gas was to build up inside an air tight container. When it gets wet it gives off acytaline [sp] gas, this is what you light. But yes, if you have a form of light or spark you can make a flame with just a couple carbide rocks and water.
It has been several years...ok, many years since i have been spelunking (caving). However, reading postings regarding calcium carbide brought back great memories. Calcium carbide head lamps are used by cavers to illuminate their way. substance is relatively easy to light. Also was a might bit lighter to carry than batteries for electric lamps! If I were you, I would contact spelunking/caving group. The one I used to belong to was run through a local university. they had their own club "store" where you could purchase supplies! At the very least, someone could tell you where they obtain carbide. Hope this helps.
GL
GL
Finally! Birch Bark!!!
I had fun with birch bark today, now my house smells like birch. It's a good smell too...
I used a dead tree, you should have better result from a live tree (I think) because it should have more of the resin that makes it burn so well... I took my bark from a nice XC ski park, and decided they'd frown if I took a chunk of bark off a live tree...
First experiment, Dry bark.
Quick written diagram of birch bark. Outside has paper thin layer layer, then more, thicker layers, reminescent of cork, but very obviously layered. These layers can, with work and delicacy, be seperated from each other.
I've made fires with shavings of the outer bark before. I would choose that for flint and steel, requires very little to light.
This time, to keep consistent, I used the inner layers of bark, torn into small (1/4 to 1/2 inch wide) strips of one or two layers of bark, and rubbed vigorously between my hands.
This lit well, with one scrape from a metal match.
Wet (a minute or two in water)
I peeled off the external layers, in and out, and found dry layers. These I lit relatively easily, and was able to get a roaring little blaze with the rest of the _wet_ bark as fuel.
Frozen (in water, stuck outside. Didna work well, we got a heat wave and the temp was a mere 0 outside. took a while to freeze.)
Again, I was able to peel the outside layers off. More difficult, because my everything got wet as the ice melted, and so even the layers I peeled were damp. Got small strips, rubbed them in my hands, and was still able to light them, even damp. I then proceeded to build another small blaze in my kitchen with the wet, frozen bark with chunks of ice on it. Lit slower, but still actually burnt, and held a flame...
That's my fun for this evening. I will set out some bark in water to freeze more solid for tomorrow night, and set some inside in water to soak for a day.
Stryver
I had fun with birch bark today, now my house smells like birch. It's a good smell too...
I used a dead tree, you should have better result from a live tree (I think) because it should have more of the resin that makes it burn so well... I took my bark from a nice XC ski park, and decided they'd frown if I took a chunk of bark off a live tree...
First experiment, Dry bark.
Quick written diagram of birch bark. Outside has paper thin layer layer, then more, thicker layers, reminescent of cork, but very obviously layered. These layers can, with work and delicacy, be seperated from each other.
I've made fires with shavings of the outer bark before. I would choose that for flint and steel, requires very little to light.
This time, to keep consistent, I used the inner layers of bark, torn into small (1/4 to 1/2 inch wide) strips of one or two layers of bark, and rubbed vigorously between my hands.
This lit well, with one scrape from a metal match.
Wet (a minute or two in water)
I peeled off the external layers, in and out, and found dry layers. These I lit relatively easily, and was able to get a roaring little blaze with the rest of the _wet_ bark as fuel.
Frozen (in water, stuck outside. Didna work well, we got a heat wave and the temp was a mere 0 outside. took a while to freeze.)
Again, I was able to peel the outside layers off. More difficult, because my everything got wet as the ice melted, and so even the layers I peeled were damp. Got small strips, rubbed them in my hands, and was still able to light them, even damp. I then proceeded to build another small blaze in my kitchen with the wet, frozen bark with chunks of ice on it. Lit slower, but still actually burnt, and held a flame...
That's my fun for this evening. I will set out some bark in water to freeze more solid for tomorrow night, and set some inside in water to soak for a day.
Stryver
- Joined
- Nov 29, 1999
- Messages
- 632
Stryver,
Excellent Job!!!!!
Birch bark is one that works well even when wet. I like it a lot. I often, during a class, will put it under creek water (held down with a rock) for 1/2 hour or longer and then light it...it is a great demonstration....
Pitch wood (fat wood) and birch bark are two of my favorite natural tinders.
Great job...
------------------
Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?
Excellent Job!!!!!
Birch bark is one that works well even when wet. I like it a lot. I often, during a class, will put it under creek water (held down with a rock) for 1/2 hour or longer and then light it...it is a great demonstration....
Pitch wood (fat wood) and birch bark are two of my favorite natural tinders.
Great job...
------------------
Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?
Calcium carbide reacts with water to make acetylene (flammable gas) and calcium hydroxide. The calcium hydroxide tends to come out as aerosol, which you don't want to breathe since calcium hydroxide is a strong base. Keep the calcium carbide in an airtight container or it will degrade and won't work any more.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 1999
- Messages
- 543
I just tried dryer lint. It absolutely would not catch a spark from my flint and steel. When I added a piece of char cloth to the mix and started a spark on the cloth all the lint would do was smoke (and stink!). I could not blow it into flame and couldn't even get it to blow into an ember.
This particular batch of lint came mostly from a load of white wash. (tshirts, underwear socks, etc.) It also had a very liberal dose of dog hair in it. I have 2 German Shepherds so EVERYTHING has a liberal dose of dog hair in it!
Now, I wonder if I charred the lint like char cloth how that would work. Probably too much synthetic fiber but I'll give it a try anyway.
This particular batch of lint came mostly from a load of white wash. (tshirts, underwear socks, etc.) It also had a very liberal dose of dog hair in it. I have 2 German Shepherds so EVERYTHING has a liberal dose of dog hair in it!
Now, I wonder if I charred the lint like char cloth how that would work. Probably too much synthetic fiber but I'll give it a try anyway.
i tried dryer lint a ways back, sometime in the summer, it just seemed like something good to burn, but i couldnt get it to work, i even held a torch to it, and it would just smolder and burn a little, and go out as soon as i removed the torch.
well, i tried some last week, and i got it to light using an artificial flint(metal match?) after just a few strikes, burst into flames immediately.
could it have something to do with what is washed(cotton as opposed to wool, or synthetics?) or maybe if you use an anti-static thing or something?
also, i started a fire this weekend, i was going to try to burn a bowl, but i couldnt find any suitable pieces of wood in the area, and i didnt really know what i was doing, but i tried grapevine bark as a tinder, i kinda rolled it in my hands and got a splintery kind of mass, i couldnt really get it any finer, and i couldnt light it with the artificial flint/metal match. i also found some stuff, it was this silky/cottony fiber in the old bark of some dead vine-i think it was climbing bittersweet(it covers darn near everything out here in eastern long island)
it was kinda troublesome to gather, but it burst into flame as soon as a spark hit it.
im not as good at starting a fire as you guys seem to be, im better then the average person, maybe even better then the average outdoorsy-person, butthats not saying too much.
what does everyone use to strike their metal matches?
i found the back of the saw blade on my leatherman wave works pretty well, better then anything else i have on me.
------------------
AKTI member #A000911
well, i tried some last week, and i got it to light using an artificial flint(metal match?) after just a few strikes, burst into flames immediately.
could it have something to do with what is washed(cotton as opposed to wool, or synthetics?) or maybe if you use an anti-static thing or something?
also, i started a fire this weekend, i was going to try to burn a bowl, but i couldnt find any suitable pieces of wood in the area, and i didnt really know what i was doing, but i tried grapevine bark as a tinder, i kinda rolled it in my hands and got a splintery kind of mass, i couldnt really get it any finer, and i couldnt light it with the artificial flint/metal match. i also found some stuff, it was this silky/cottony fiber in the old bark of some dead vine-i think it was climbing bittersweet(it covers darn near everything out here in eastern long island)
it was kinda troublesome to gather, but it burst into flame as soon as a spark hit it.
im not as good at starting a fire as you guys seem to be, im better then the average person, maybe even better then the average outdoorsy-person, butthats not saying too much.
what does everyone use to strike their metal matches?
i found the back of the saw blade on my leatherman wave works pretty well, better then anything else i have on me.
------------------
AKTI member #A000911
Second Birch burning...
I had some birch soaking overnight, and pulled it out when I got back from work today. When I began peeling it apart, it was dry inside. Knowing I could already start fires with the dry inside part, I decided to try the wet outer bark. I had the outside bark, and one or two layers (It was about as thin as I could get it with my big fat fingers). This was wet on one side, and damp on the other. I made a pile of thinly torn pieces, and sparked at them.
Lo and behold, Flameage! I then took some inner layers that had also been soaking overnight (It was leftover from yesterday) and made a nice little blaze with these. All the stuff in this fire was wet, and had been soaking overnight. The soaked innards were a wee bit tough to light, but not too much, and they burned great, with a little extra crackle from their soaking.
As far as striking my metal match, I currently use a strike force, and it comes with a striker. I _really_ dislike using a knife blade to do so, and will likely find a piece of metal (Old hacksaw blade perhaps) to attach to my plain metal matches
Stand-bye, just had an idea...
Petrified wood works. Just tried it. I assume any similarly hard mineral will also work. Flint, jasper, whatever you use for primitive flint and steel will likely work on a metal match...
Nice to know I can dig around for a rock and not kill a blade now...
Stryver
I had some birch soaking overnight, and pulled it out when I got back from work today. When I began peeling it apart, it was dry inside. Knowing I could already start fires with the dry inside part, I decided to try the wet outer bark. I had the outside bark, and one or two layers (It was about as thin as I could get it with my big fat fingers). This was wet on one side, and damp on the other. I made a pile of thinly torn pieces, and sparked at them.
Lo and behold, Flameage! I then took some inner layers that had also been soaking overnight (It was leftover from yesterday) and made a nice little blaze with these. All the stuff in this fire was wet, and had been soaking overnight. The soaked innards were a wee bit tough to light, but not too much, and they burned great, with a little extra crackle from their soaking.
As far as striking my metal match, I currently use a strike force, and it comes with a striker. I _really_ dislike using a knife blade to do so, and will likely find a piece of metal (Old hacksaw blade perhaps) to attach to my plain metal matches
Stand-bye, just had an idea...
Petrified wood works. Just tried it. I assume any similarly hard mineral will also work. Flint, jasper, whatever you use for primitive flint and steel will likely work on a metal match...
Nice to know I can dig around for a rock and not kill a blade now...
Stryver
- Joined
- Nov 29, 1999
- Messages
- 632
Now lets up the ante.
Who out there has access to cedar bark? I'd like the same experment done with it.
First try and ligth it when it is dry and then after submerging in water for 12/ hour or more.
Cedar bark is a little more tempermental and you'll need to focus on your preperation. Make sure to break it down well (at first by tearing it down with your fingers and then by rubbing it between your hands) so that it has plenty of fine edges to catch a flame.
Anyone willing to try this and report to the group....
------------------
Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?
Who out there has access to cedar bark? I'd like the same experment done with it.
First try and ligth it when it is dry and then after submerging in water for 12/ hour or more.
Cedar bark is a little more tempermental and you'll need to focus on your preperation. Make sure to break it down well (at first by tearing it down with your fingers and then by rubbing it between your hands) so that it has plenty of fine edges to catch a flame.
Anyone willing to try this and report to the group....
------------------
Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?
- Joined
- Nov 29, 1999
- Messages
- 632
So far no takers on the cedar bark challenge....
Hmmmmmmmm
------------------
Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?
Hmmmmmmmm
------------------
Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?
- Joined
- Feb 27, 1999
- Messages
- 543
I've got a cedar tree in my yard. I pulled off some strips of bark and rubbed them down into a fine fuzz. I cannot get them to catch with my fint and steel. I don't have a metal match. Using a piece of char cloth to catch the spark from my flint and steel I can easily blow the cedar into flame. The cedar tinder will continue to smolder even if it is not involved in flame, allowing it to be blown into flame quickly. The cedar will smolder like this for several minutes.
I need to try one of these new metal matches you all keep talking about. What is a good kind to get?
Mike
[This message has been edited by Jaeger (edited 27 December 1999).]
I need to try one of these new metal matches you all keep talking about. What is a good kind to get?
Mike
[This message has been edited by Jaeger (edited 27 December 1999).]
- Joined
- Nov 29, 1999
- Messages
- 632
Jaeger,
The cedar has to be a fine (very fine) mesh...
One option for metal match: I have large (3/8 by 4 inch) metal matches available at my web site (link below). Simply go into my survival store.
Cedar bark is tempermental and requires attention to detail with its prep. Keep trying... you'll get it
------------------
Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?
The cedar has to be a fine (very fine) mesh...
One option for metal match: I have large (3/8 by 4 inch) metal matches available at my web site (link below). Simply go into my survival store.
Cedar bark is tempermental and requires attention to detail with its prep. Keep trying... you'll get it
------------------
Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?
- Joined
- Oct 12, 1998
- Messages
- 1,647
Slightly off-topic, but Dave B brought it up...
Dave , I know the answer to that one.
Liquid Oxygen. In a method pretty much perfected by the infamous George Goble. For the curious, you can check out:
http://ghg.ecn.purdue.edu/
Looks like fun to me.
------------------
Don LeHue
The pen is mightier than the sword...outside of arm's reach. Modify radius accordingly for rifle.
Dave , I know the answer to that one.
Liquid Oxygen. In a method pretty much perfected by the infamous George Goble. For the curious, you can check out:
http://ghg.ecn.purdue.edu/
Looks like fun to me.
------------------
Don LeHue
The pen is mightier than the sword...outside of arm's reach. Modify radius accordingly for rifle.
- Joined
- Oct 7, 1998
- Messages
- 1,838
Jeez, guys, I was kidding about the thermite! It is a little overkill!!
It would work, however. The idea is that you change elemental Al or Mg to the oxide, while making elemental iron from the iron oxide. This, in fact, used to be used to repair extremely large cast iron parts, by making a ceramic mold around the part with the appropriate inside shape and dimensions, then filling the mold, and a reservoir on top, with more thermite, and igniting it. The liquid iron would run down into the mold and weld itself to the part.
The actual proportions depend on the degree of oxidation of the iron: ferrous or ferric oxide, and its' hydration. You don't need to be exactly stoichiometric, however, any close approximation will work. While you may think Al or Mg powder would oxidize rapidly, it doesn't. At least when kept in airtight glass bottles. A little trial and error should give you some real kick a$$ fire starter. I would clear a fairly large area around the fire site before igniting the thermite, however.
Walt
It would work, however. The idea is that you change elemental Al or Mg to the oxide, while making elemental iron from the iron oxide. This, in fact, used to be used to repair extremely large cast iron parts, by making a ceramic mold around the part with the appropriate inside shape and dimensions, then filling the mold, and a reservoir on top, with more thermite, and igniting it. The liquid iron would run down into the mold and weld itself to the part.
The actual proportions depend on the degree of oxidation of the iron: ferrous or ferric oxide, and its' hydration. You don't need to be exactly stoichiometric, however, any close approximation will work. While you may think Al or Mg powder would oxidize rapidly, it doesn't. At least when kept in airtight glass bottles. A little trial and error should give you some real kick a$$ fire starter. I would clear a fairly large area around the fire site before igniting the thermite, however.