The News

[Kyui Su Kim]

I don't know if anyone else has heard about the news lately. This may not involve Bali's directly but i think it might in the future. Today(monday) some kid in California shot up his school. He killed 2 other students and injured a few other student, staff, and the security officer. This is such a sad incedent and this is probably going to spawn some more crazy laws on weapons. At least Bush has not responded by saying to create more weapon control laws. Instead he said that " We should teach children the difference between right and wrong"

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I have a sword in my pocket!

 

[Darth Detori]

I heard about that too- really sucks hard.

good thing Gore isnt president, otherwise we'd be left empty-sheathed

so what did they say his motive was? I wonder if they'll blame it on video games.......again

 

[MAURICE]

what the media needs to blame it on is their own damn children.
i see this everyday.people are picked on for no reason.just hassled because they are different.look at harris and clebold with the columbine shooting.the jocks and other asst. popular kids messed with them constantly,never expecting any sort of retribution.yet they got it.
it is sad when something like this happens,its also scary to think that as a high school student i could be victim to something like this.yet i feel no pity for those who relentlessly pick on others and think they will get away skot-free.

as a matter of fact,today someone bumped into me in the hall and called me a faggot.now im not a small guy.i stand 6 foot four,with a large build.not too meany people mess with me.this twerp chose to,so i followed him..he expected me too simply take it and walk away.i will not, (now this doesnt mean im going to go to school and shoot him or his buddies he was with) and now he knows that.
him and his little bastard friends split up when they saw me coming towards them and hid.
cowards.

 

[Gollnick]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Instead he said that " We should teach children the difference between right and wrong"</font>

This may sound like a weak, indecisive, vauge response, but it's actually the solution.


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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com

 

[BaliLover]

I think I heard that the motive was unclear. He was another small kid, described as "anorexic" who was being picked on alot. I heard one version that said he confronted someone in the mens room, shot him, and then was confronted when he tried to leave. Thats when he opened fire.

Funny how many laws he broke and yet people will scream for more laws. Why, so he can break even more of them? Laws do not stop criminals, they make them.

 

[Darth Detori]

hey, that was a pretty good quote (the last sentance of what you said).

It's a very good point too. I mean, why do they think they can stop people who break laws with more laws??? morons

 

[2Sharp]

I'm pretty sure it's illegal to kill people (it's here in Sweden) and if people doesn't follow that law why would they follow other laws???
Fundamental respect for life and other people with different ethnic/religious/cultural background should be something that is taught and encouraged through all levels of education (and of course by parents).
That's what solves these things, not more (stupid) laws.

Sorry for the rambling.

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Be well!/Jonas aka 2Sharp

"May all your detonations be expected"

The coolest bar in the world: http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Camp/8373/index.html
My knives!

 

[Blasto]

Hi there, a newcomer here with his humble opinion...

You're right about the excess in laws. What's going to be the problem with this awful incident is that society and the media can't let things rest. This was an isolated incident and it will be taken as a nation-wide challenge to stop "these horrible things"... like taking away our weapons. When the government takes away our knives and guns because of things like this, it strengthens the negative feelings for them. People will see weapons as a tool of harm and evil. Because the media doesn't represent weapon usage from a self-defense or utility standpoint. This country is getting scared of itself, and as yoda said, "Fear is the path to the dark side".

~Dave

 

[Darth Detori]

fear is the path to the dark side.
fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate....leads to suffering!

yet another quote from the all-powerful yoda

 

[Harvie]

MAURICE and 2Sharp are right.

People can only take so much being picked on before they snap. I was picked on relentlessly in grade school, from 1st to 8th grade, and part of the 9th, then I moved 150 miles from that horrible place. (240 KM)
Did I ever think about tking a gun and shoting them, NO. I had axcess to whatever gun I wanted too. Insted I just took it, or got into a fist fight when needed. I got from a few teachers too. Being picked on is the reason, but not the excuss.


Laws only provide a means to punish the peolple who do something wrong. They do not prevent crime. Look at all the school shotings, they had the intent to take lives, so they did not care about the two dozen gun violations they made.

It all goes back to the parents, I was tought right from wrong. By the way, when I got into a fist fight, it was a forced issue by the other person. But it did help, it was venting, no one got hurt much, and it proved that would not take it and not fight back. So maybe the old days of puting two kids in a ring with gloves was what prevented stuff like this. Maybe because they don't want kids to act like kids, that they write rule and laws that surpress normal human instinct, that the only thing that it is doing is creating these little powder keggs. Thats just my opinion.

By the way, the reson I got picked one was mostly apperance. 5 foot three inches, 200 pounds! (1.6 Meters, 91 Kg) Now I'm 5' 6", 150 lbs. (167.6 cm, 68 kg). Not bad, huh? my odd sense of hummer got me a rep too. Still gets me in trouble.

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“Society is safer when the criminals don’t know who’s armed.”

 

[epigram79]

I don't know about anyone else, but I am sick of people placing blame on everyone else except the actual person that committed the crime. Maybe you might convince me that it's the parents fault to some degree, but that is a case by case thing. When I was a freshman in high school, I knew what was right and wrong. And I damn well knew it was not right to shoot someone for something as petty as that. What gets me even more is that these a-holes don't even have enough brains to think of something original. Instead they just copy those Colorado delinquents. I'm not saying that these kids should be more creative...infact I'm glad that they aren't. I think that it just goes to show their own mentality.

I don't like these restrictive laws any more than everyone else. But, I can see another angle where some of these law makers might think that restricting any weapon is will do good. That is: after the law goes into affect, it gives the courts something else to add on to the criminal's list when he goes to court.

Do I agree with that line of thinking? Absolutely not. I think it hurts more people than it protects. But that's just another thing to think about.

Steve

 

[TOMBSTONE]

I believe for the most part all the useless laws are to make politicaians look good to all the people screaming for some action to stop these incidents.We all know that additional laws or bans are useless,but most people are stupid and ignorant in their thinking.In fact most of the people demanding stricter gun controls and laws are the people who have helped create these little monsters and want the government to raise everyones children,because they have failed as parents.I also think they make all these senseless laws to systematically, slowly, but surely keep guns and knives from the law abiding citizens.I've also noticed something interesting.There were alot of laws passed a long time ago on items that were never a problem.I don't recall hearing about any massive crime waves involving switchblades or butterfly knifes that should have led to a ban.What happened?someone watched one to many 50's greaser films?Too many sheaple startled by the sound of the blade snapping into place?"Oh My!!" I can't believe they make such scary and dangerous looking tool"
I've come to the conclusion that appeasment or hiding "scary" looking tools from the site of sheaple just aid in sheltering people from the truth.They need to see people using these "weapons" as tools so they learn to change their opinions about them,and see what benifit they actually have.Stop using your cars keys to open boxes and use a knife instead.Education is what is needed for a cure and standing up with the help of organizations like the NRA,and the AKTI is what we all need to be doing.When you pull out your LCC to open a box and you get strange stares and nasty comments,glare back at them and respond back with,would you give me the same strange look if I was standing in my kitchen with an 8 inch butchers knife?A knife is a tool,as is a hammer,screwdriver,until the intentions of the person holding it turns it into a weapon.NOw,if you carry a balisong,I don't recommend doing fancy martial arts openings before you open that UPS package for an associate,but unfold it nicely and show some one that lacks knowledge,that even a butterfly knife is a tool,and it's only purpose is not that of a weapon.Unfortunatly,if something is designed mostly defense,it is labeled as bad?Sometimes certain laws make it illegal to carry if you intend it to be used for self-defense,Why?What happened to this great nation that it became unfashionable to save your own life?We have made ourselves a nation of defenseless victims,with criminals having more legal rights than ourselves.Sad,very sad indeed.Well in anycase,hopefully the youngman killed those students is incarcerated for the rest of his life at the very least.Chow,Ralph

 

[KentDog]

I'm going to have to disagree with some of you guys. I know there are a lot of 'dumb' laws out there, but I would not go as far to say that laws in general do not work.


Harvie -

Isn't the punishment for committing a crime, preventing future crimes? That is the purpose, is it not? And it works. If the penalty for committing a crime is severe enough to an extent, people would probably obey the laws to avoid the penalties. That is why not everyone is a criminal. If there were no laws, everyone would commit crimes and recklessly do as they please. Laws are what keep society in order.

As for the Cali kid who murdered two and injured many others... As bad as this sounds, I don't think it's right to fully blame the people who teased him. He had poor anger management skills, and yeah, he didn't have strong values in right and wrong. But to kill people because he was teased is bull. Everyone's gotten $h!t before from time to time, and murder is never any sort of solution.

People who are constantly harassed usually have assertive options to cope with the problems. They can find a hobby, such as lifting weights, or boxing. I believe exercise is the best solution. Anger will give you the extra adrenaline to really try and succeed - just be persistant. And eventually, you'll be able to start all over with a new group of people, with no reason to be looked down on.

Steve - very well said.

School shootings are happening more and more often, and it only goes downhill from here. In a way, I blame the media for airing Columbine crap over and over, giving Crazies ideas. Although Columbine was a very sad incident, it did not need to be talked about publicly as much as it was. There is no fair penalty that can be administered the Williams school shooter.

 

[Gollnick]

My sainted father used to say, "The best revenge is living well."

While I wasn't exactly picked on, I can't say that I was the most popular guy in my high school class. But, I retired before any of them.

Every now and again, I meet someone from my old class. It's funny how those who were the "in crowd" in high school have, for the most part, lost it. The guy who was the star athlete, captain of the football team, etc., now has quite the beer belly. Everyone thought he'd do so well. He fell short of the football scholarship that was assumed for him, failed out of college, manage to graduate from a community college, and now teaches and coaches football at a small-town high school.

On the other hand, several of the "scrawny nerds" from my class are now CEOs of their own companies, are buff thanks to the personal trainer at their country club, drive fancy cars, and generally look like they just stepped off of the cover of GQ.

I met the gal who was prom queen about a year ago, literally chanced into her in an airport. We would not have recognized each other had I not been on standby and the clerk announced my somewhat unique name (and he pronounced it almost right). She introduced herself and her husband and four children. Wow. The years have not been kind to her.

On the other hand, the same thing happened to me about four years ago. The airport clerk called my name and, after I picked my ticket up, a woman came up and introduced herself as one of my former classmates. This gal had been one of the "lesser" girls in my class. She introduced me to her husband, a famous tennis professional. Wow! She looks good, great figure, tanned, great... and all the diamonds certainly helped the image.

So don't worry about the cast you have in high school. There'll be plenty of opportunity for revenge through living well later.


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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com

[This message has been edited by Gollnick (edited 03-07-2001).]

 

[Blasto]

Social skills are most fundamental thing missing in today's schools. I'm only 21 and can still feel the pain from teasing in earlier grades. I've had things done to me that I wouldn't repeat on such civil forum. We need to teach children to understand themselves and other people. There is very little to no sense of empathy in youth. THIS, is what causes these things. It's a dirty world out there, and it certainly has no place for a little empathy. This is what has to change. Laws are for criminals.

 

[Darth Detori]

well my form of revenge is quite unique and pretty effective. I call it "The Method". I have only had to use this once and I pray I never have to do it again.

now this person has to be on your nerves constantly and always pokes at you trying to piss you off. And dont think their friends try to get back at you because they wont. In fact it usually ends up that they think that their friend is more of an ass.

what you do is you hit close to home. It's totally Hannibal Lecter style. I have this ability to just tell a person's history by how they look, how they speak, and who they associate with. This helps me delve even deeper into their psyche.
it's usually their parents that's the cause (divorced). the next in the line is usually something sexual related. Then fear about their future, and then it just tapers off from there. They tend to deny stuff, but if you really dig at it, they'll break down.

Now I can't give my official seal of approval (in that it totally works) on this method because I've only done it online. What basically happened was that this group of friends kept IMing me every damn second, giving me crap about sucking ______ and so forth. you know, the general immature crap. I didn't want to put a block on because then I'd have a whole lot of name transfers to do and nobody else could IM me. then I thought about reporting them, but there were just so many. I had some punting tools available, but that would have been just dumb. This went on for maybe two weeks, so I finally used "the method" on the ringleader. Turns out her parents are divorced and she was angry at them or something really typical like that. She never IMed me again, and all her friends IMed me later asking me why I did that. I sent them the conversation and I never heard from them either.

I'm not really sure WHY this works; maybe it's because they think you're psycho. maybe it's because they realize that they're being an ass. maybe it's because they see that their anger is misplaced. there are a bunch of reasons that could be, but it's non-violent and it ends it.

and once again, I hope I never have to use it again.

 

[Blasto]

Darth, I did the same thing about a week ago. I sent a picture of myself to a local girl whom replied with hurtful insults; ugly, fat... the usual. I emailed her back with civil questioning to see how anyone could be that cold. She continued with the assults until I wrote a 2 page letter explaining why I thought she was so mean and felt she had to tear things down. I no more than showed her what I understood about how she felt inwardly. I recieved an email from her about an hour later that simply read... "I'm blocking you from my email. If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all". It's just what I was saying above about understanding yourself and especially others. True empathy is the key to ridding social devience.

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"One in the hand is worth two in the sheath"

 

[MikeM]

I agree with President Bush's statement:
We should teach children the difference between right and wrong!
My parents taught me that. The road to becoming an Eagle Scout taught me that.
Why is it necessary to pick on others, to the extreme that they retaliate in such brutal fashion! What is gained by it? No, you don't have to take it when someone bumps into you or calls you a name. Intimidation won't solve it either, you could be next on the list.

I received the following in a e-mail today.
I don't know if the speech was actually made, but I agree with what this says.
Sorry for the length and if it offends anyone.

The State of Our Country

Guess our national leaders didn't expect this, hmm? On Thursday,
Darrell Scott, the father of Rachel Scott, a victim of the Columbine High
School shootings in Littleton, Colorado, was invited to address the
House Judiciary Committee's sub-committee. What he said to our national
leaders during this special session of Congress was painfully
truthful. They were not prepared for what he was to say, nor was it
received well.
It needs to be heard by every parent, every teacher, every
politician, every sociologist, every psychologist, and every so-called
expert!
These courageous words spoken by Darrell Scott are powerful,
penetrating, and deeply personal.
There is no doubt that God sent this man as a
voice crying in the wilderness. The following is a portion of the
transcript:

"Since the dawn of creation there has been both good & evil in
the hearts of men and women. We all contain the seeds of kindness or
the seeds of violence. The death of my wonderful daughter, Rachel Joy
Scott, and the deaths of that heroic teacher, and the other eleven
children who died must not be in vain. Their blood cries out for
answers."
"The first recorded act of violence was when Cain slew his
brother Abel out in the field. The villain was not the club he used.
Neither was it the NCA, the National Club Association. The true killer was Cain,
and the reason for the murder could only be found in Cain's heart.
"In the days that followed the Columbine tragedy, I was amazed at
how quickly fingers began to be pointed at groups such as the NRA. I
am not a member of the NRA. I am not a hunter. I do not even own a gun.
I am not here to represent or defend the NRA - because I don't believe
that they are responsible for my daughter's death. Therefore I do not
believe that they need to be defended. If I believed they had anything to
do
with Rachel's murder I would be their strongest opponent."
"I am here today to declare that Columbine was not just a
tragedy-it was a spiritual event that should be forcing us to look at
where the real blame lies! Much of the blame lies here in this room. Much of the
blame lies behind the pointing fingers of the accusers themselves. "I wrote
a poem just four nights ago that expresses my feelings best. This was
written way before I knew I would be speaking here today":

Your laws ignore our deepest needs,
Your words are empty air.
You've stripped away our heritage,
You've outlawed simple prayer.
Now gunshots fill our classrooms,
And precious children die.
You seek for answers everywhere,
And ask the question "Why?"
You regulate restrictive laws,
Through legislative creed.
And yet you fail to understand,
That God is what we need!

"Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body,
soul, and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our
make-up, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush
in and reek havoc. Spiritual presences were present within our educational systems
for most of our nation's history. Many of our major colleges began as
theological seminaries. This is a historical fact. What has happened to
us as a nation?
We have refused to honor God, and in so doing, we open the doors
to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as
Columbine's tragedy occurs - politicians immediately look for a scapegoat
such as the NRA. They
immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that contribute to
erode away our personal and private liberties. We do not need more
restrictive laws.
"Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors.
No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning
this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts.
Political posturing and restrictive legislation are not the answers. The
young people of our nation hold the key. There is a spiritual awakening
taking place that will not be squelched! We do not need more religion.
We do not need more gaudy television evangelists spewing out
verbal religious garbage. We do
not need more million dollar church buildings built while people with
basic needs are being ignored. We do need a change of heart and a
humble acknowledgment that this nation was founded on the principle of
simple trust in God!"
"As my son Craig lay under that table in the school library and
saw his two friends murdered before his very eyes-He did not hesitate to
pray in school. I defy any law or politician to deny him that right! I
challenge every young person in America, and around the world, to realize
that on April 20, 1999, at Columbine High School prayer was brought back
to our schools. Do not let the many prayers offered by those students be
in vain. Dare to move into the new millennium with a sacred
disregard for legislation that violates your God-given right to communicate
with Him.
To those of you who would point your finger at the NRA -
I give to you a sincere challenge. Dare to
examine your own heart before casting the first stone! My
daughter's death will not be in vain! The young people of this country
will not allow that to happen!"

********************************************************

Do what the media did not - - let the nation hear this mans speech.


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Flip balisongs for a good cause! 'Cause balisongs KICK A$$!

[This message has been edited by MikeM (edited 03-07-2001).]

 

[BalisongMan]

Wow, what a great discussion, the people who have responded and given their thoughts have been articulate and mature, it's nice to see that.

I agree that we need some laws, they provide a good basis for society and they should be backed up by morals, ie "Killing someone is against the law" which is backed by "you shouldn't kill people" which should be taught by our parents. I believe that we all know deep down that it is wrong to kill someone without ever been told that it is. Like I said, we need some laws, not an overabundance of crap that just restricts everyone from having freedoms.
My dad has taken me shooting with several guns and he has taught me how to load, shoot, clean, and most importantly respect guns.

Someone earlier said that we should take our anger and do something useful and productive with it; exercise, lift weights, box etc. When my friends and I lift and are struggling we encourage each other and remind each other of what pisses us off which helps us lift and get stronger. One of the major points in body building is the psycological aspect with which you think positively about everything, you focus and concentrate on what you are doing, you have to look at everything with the attitude "How can this situation help me as a person to grow?"

I hope that if any of us in any school, whether it be college, high school, middle school, or elementary school, should hear of a the possibility of a shooting that we notify administrators so that we can prevent a disaster before it starts.

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Cameron

"Look deep, deep inside and you will find a place of anger, vengeance, and brutality. Go there. It is your last hope to conquer the truly wicked."

A few of my balisongs
My Photopoint album

 

[Chris "Anagarika"]

It is truly a privilege to be among the few thinkers we still have here ..
I am really feel honored to greet you all.

I guess we have to invite more people to see and read this forum to let them know:
We LOVE KNIVES
We RESPECT KNIVES
Knife lovers ARE NOT VILLAINS

Let us start using our knife as tools, teach our children to respect tools and weapons as they should be ..
and mostly, teach our children to look deep into their own hearts, where they will meet the ULTIMATE and know what is right or wrong.

Law doesn't make what is right or wrong, it just a wording trying to capture the elusive essence of justice, merely a reflection. We need reflection to look at and make sure we are ok, but reflection is just it is: reflection. It doesn't become the real thing.

I agree that we have to have some basic law for regulation, but it is just a tool same as knife. What count are us, people who use it. That is why for some, law can be helpful and applied for goodness (i.e. no smoking in elevator) but for some it can be twisted and cheated for evil (I can't find the example, but you know ... when you see one or feel one)