The Next "Ultimate" Knife

Ken Cox

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Dec 11, 1998
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This past year I have sold my car (my wife still has a car) and taken up the bicycle, for health reasons.
I do my very best to not get in a car; I've lost 60 pounds and I really enjoy going places, especially commuting to work.

When riding my bike I carry my Chinook II in the small of my back in my waistband, only for self-defense (I use my Native for cutting things).
I have no intention of ever using my Chinook II for self-defense, but my first flight instructor, Floyd Duckworth, told me "whatever you prepare for will never happen."
So far that has proven largely true.
As an EMS helicopter pilot I have seen what a knife can do, and I don't want to do that to another human being, but I figure if I prepare adequately it will not happen to anyone - me or the bad guy.

Anyway, with the cold weather I now wear some pretty heavy duty gloves.
They keep my hands warm, and with my Chinook II open, I can use the knife even with the gloves.
It feels good.
However, getting my Chinook II out of my waistband and opening it with these gloves presents a whole new set of problems.
I can do it, but I don't want to try it in the dark and in a hurry.
This has started me wondering if I need to carry a fixed-blade knife, instead.

I have several very nice fixed-blade self-defense or fighting knives made by John Greco.
The smaller ones don't work so well with the gloves and the larger ones just don't feel right on a bicycle.
Really, nothing works as well (fixed or folding) with gloves as does the open Chinook II.

I could make a sheath and carry the Chinook II open and ready to go.
It has the right size and conformation.
However, I don't like that idea for several reasons, and it mostly boils down to this: if I have to carry a knife open, I'd rather carry a fixed-blade knife for its strength.

OK, so, what if Spyderco made fixed-blade full-tang version of the Chinook II, exactly like the folding Chinook II except for the fixed, full tang.
By exactly, I mean exactly, right down to the hole in the blade (which I use as a place to put my thumb when I choke up on the blade and hold it flat/sideways) and even the scallops in the G10 scales (intended to make it easier to access the hole and open the blade, but which make a perfect place for the index finger to wrap around the handle).
The only thing new or different would involve a sheath system, maybe something like the Dozier Kydex sheaths that one can take apart and reassemble for different carries.
I would like a Kydex sheath that would let me carry a fixed-blade Chinook II on either my right or left hip, in the small of my back or crossdraw, and in or outside of my waistband.
I don't want too much, do I?
With Kydex and machine screws it seems doable, though, to design something where a person could reassemble the clip portion onto the core sheath in three or four different ways.
Put some lightening holes in the tang and scales, and a fixed-blade Chinook II could even make use of a neck sheath.

For those who have not held a Chinook II, one cannot appreciate the effectiveness of the collaboration between Spyderco and James Keating on this knife 'til he holds it and feels how intuitively it works.
Inch for inch and ounce for ounce, I cannot imagine a better (or even as good) self-defense knife.
The current folding version gives away nothing; but, a fixed-blade version, in exactly the same conformation with zero changes, gains everything.

If you already have a Chinook II, open it up, hold it in your hand, and imagine it as a fixed-blade knife.
If you don't have one, go down to the local knife store and hold one, and imagine it as a fixed-blade knife.
Now, think of a four-way sheath for that knife.

Anyway, it seems like a good idea to me. :)
 
Hello, Ken. I much more regularly post on the Asian/Australian forum, but keep a regular eye on this forum as I find that I like Spyderco knives above all other makes. I have a Chinook I but have not had the chance of ever handling the Chinook II.

I hope that this does not deviate from your topic thread, but I was wondering about your opinion concenring how you would compare the handling of the Chinook I against the Chinook II? I am considering "upgrading" to the Chinook II, as although I really like the Chinook I and find the Chinook I very rock solid and conforting to hold in the hand, it is a tad bit heavy and harder to deploy quickly than any other folder I have.
 
Hi Ken, interesting thought. Maybe we'll make up a sample concept knife for showing at shows. For me, the II is a significant improvement over the I. James and I did a great deal of back and forth chat before the knife emerged.

Hey Parallax. Is the Asian/Australian forum in English? Do you have an address?

sal
 
Ken Cox said:
I have several very nice fixed-blade self-defense or fighting knives made by John Greco. The smaller ones don't work so well with the gloves and the larger ones just don't feel right on a bicycle.
Do you mean that your sheath system is not comfortable on the bike? Maybe you could try one of the shoulder rigs, rather than a belt sheath. Or, you could keep the Chinook for on-the-body carry and add a fixed blade knife in some sort of rig on the bike itself. A lot of people carry batons or OC that way. You would have to make sure that your knife was secure enough to not come out of the sheath if you crash your bike. Keeping it secure and easy to access might be tough.
 
The Chinook II is one of my all time favorite folders. I can't beleive how much better it is than the Chinook I.

I would also like to see a Chinook II fixed blade. The Chinook II has one of the most comfortable handles on the market, and would make a great fixed blade for reverse grip. A fixed blade Chinook II would have to be one of the best SD knives around.
 
Ken's idea is, IMO, excellent. Actually, I was thinking many times to start such a thread, but never did it.
What I would like to stress is the following: it is important to keep a full tang construction (as Ken suggested). With full tang a knife could be used with more confidence for any survival/SD purpose.
I remember that a long time ago, there was an idea to make full tang fixed Wegner. But the dreams never came true.
I was thinking also about an idea to make a fixed blade version of the Native folder. Why?
- because it seems to me that Spyderco could make a hit with a kind of small/neck knives,
- because Native design is beautufull - could be very usefull for utility, but is obviously very good choice for SD.
- could be used as small belt-knife, but it is also OK as a neck knife.
- comparing the fixed blade Native with some production knives, e.g. Fällkniven's WM-1, CRKT Ryan Plan B, BK&T Becker Necker, ... well, it may be a winner.

Franco
 
Sal Glesser said:
Hi Ken, interesting thought. Maybe we'll make up a sample concept knife for showing at shows. For me, the II is a significant improvement over the I. James and I did a great deal of back and forth chat before the knife emerged.

Hey Parallax. Is the Asian/Australian forum in English? Do you have an address?

sal

Sal,

Yes, the Asian Australian forum is indeed in english :-

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=716

Your knives have many fans there - Spyderco is probably the most popular brand of folder among the knife enthusiasts on that forum.

My address is on its way over to you.


Parallax
 
Would a fixed blade Chinook II look like the "Lil' SOB" that is made by Jason Cutter, an Australaina custom knifemaker?

See jcbknives.com...
 
the Chinook II is IMO the quintessential Martial Artist's folder. Filled with subtle features and overall practical use. It's the one I reach for when I want a purely functional defensive folder without considering legalities such as bladelenght or "PC-mindedness".

http://www.geocities.com/mrblonde50/chinook_2.htm

A Fixed blade version would be pretty cool, but then I'd want something larger.

A fixed Native would be my dream small spydie fixed blade.

Have you considered the Temperance fixed blade? If you can (legally) carry it, do so. It's a very very good MBC player, and comes with a drone!

Wouter
 
Very cool idea. How about teaming up with Bud Nealy and putting this thing in a spydified MCS system.

SWEET!

Sam
 
Ken, what are the dimensions of the Chinook you have? Specifically, the cutting edge length (point to where the handle starts, really) and the dimensions of the knife top to bottom (like would it fit on a 1.5" wide piece of steel?). Depending on the answer to my questions I would possibly be interested in doing the project you're looking for. I'd have to have you send the knife so I could check it out, and also it'd be different by virtue that it would be made freehand with hand tools, so it'd have a convex blade grind (close to a flat grind, through) and a differential Japanese style heat treat. Here's a pic I made of my variation of a Lum folder as a fixed blade:

chin1.jpg


chin10.jpg
 
I own the above knife & it's a beauty. Very Nice Work. :D :eek:
WAY exceeded my expectations (it's my 2nd knife from Steve/Chiro).
Good stuff!
 
Ken Cox said:
Anyway, with the cold weather I now wear some pretty heavy duty gloves.
They keep my hands warm, and with my Chinook II open, I can use the knife even with the gloves.
It feels good.
However, getting my Chinook II out of my waistband and opening it with these gloves presents a whole new set of problems.
I can do it, but I don't want to try it in the dark and in a hurry.
This has started me wondering if I need to carry a fixed-blade knife, instead.

I have several very nice fixed-blade self-defense or fighting knives made by John Greco.
The smaller ones don't work so well with the gloves and the larger ones just don't feel right on a bicycle.
Really, nothing works as well (fixed or folding) with gloves as does the open Chinook II.

I used to live in a small town just east of you and also commuted by bicycle all year.

Another option is to change your hand wear. Handlebar pogies are vastly more comfortable in cold weather than gloves or mittens. With thin gloves or bare hands beneath you would still be able to operate your Chinook II like normal.

That said, I prefer drop handlebars and find mittens work best for multiple hand positions. (I have been in Fairbanks AK for almost 3 years now, but outta here next week!) So I have learned a thing or two about COLD weather. I have used a number of fixed blades strapped vertically on my left backpack strap in winter, currently a Temperance. That works well even with mittens.

Edited to add: I also have a chest sheath from www.survivalsheath.com and find that the most comfortable way to carry a fixed blade (becker BK10) when cycling without a camel-bak or backpack of some sort.
chestsheath2.jpg
 
Wow.
A beautiful knife by Chiro75.

-----

I followed anomad's link to survivalsheath.
What a cool site; well worth the visit.
I think I'll wander around there some more after this post.
Thanks.

This winter counts as my first attempt to ride all the way through winter.
As I wrote earlier, I burned my bridges by selling my commuter car.
I've spent at least as much on my clothes and equipment as I have on my bike, and I think I'll make it.
At least, I hope I will. :)

My 58 year-old back won't tolerate the drop-bar position.
I tried; professional fittings and all.
I think I went through about five handlebar and stem configurations before settling on a position about halfway between full-race and full-comfort.
Anyway, I use a flat bar with bar ends and I like to move my hands around.
Thanks for the pogie suggestion, though.

One of my Greco knives, the Persian, resembles the Chinook II in many ways, including size.
It lacks what I call the pinky-hook that the Chinook II has, and I have a new respect for that feature now that I've experimented with heavy gloves and knives.
I've also tried my larger Grecos with gloves, thinking I might find a way of hiding one of them in plain sight either on the bike or on my person.
However, as good as my Grecos feel in my bare hands, or with thin gloves, they just don't work with true winter gloves; certainly no fault with John Greco's design; he didn't mean them as all things to all people at all times; and the Chinook II, as a folder, arguably fails that test, as well.

I find it interesting that the pinky hook would make that much of a difference; and that the Chinook II works so well in the ungloved hand as well; and, that the Chinook II and the Greco Persian so closely resemble each other in all other regards.
Still, I would like for a fixed-blade Chinook II to retain the SpydieHole.
For that matter, I would want a fixed-blade Native to retain the SpydieHole.
I use that hole as reference and as part of the grip with both the Native and the Chinook II, and I'd miss it.
In fact, I miss it on the Greco Persian.

One other thing: the Greco Persian measures a full .25" in thickness, which makes it capable of punching through a 55 gallon oil drum, but which also makes it too thick for a lot everyday cutting tasks.
A fixed-blade Chinook II at its present thickness might not punch through a 55 gallon oil drum, but it will do everything else just as well and some/many things better.
I could filet a fish or fight a grizzly with a fixed-blade Chinook II.
I'd rather filet a fish, though. :)

That chest sheath at survival sheath has a lot of merit.
Thanks again.
 
Don't get me wrong, I want you to have the perfect knife! By all means, I support anyones knife addiction.

Ken Cox said:
Anyway, I use a flat bar with bar ends and I like to move my hands around.
Thanks for the pogie suggestion, though.
Proper fitting pogies allow you to use bar ends. I made my own and will post pictures over in G&G when I get settled in Montana.

That chest sheath at survival sheath has a lot of merit.
Thanks again.
Robert H is on the forums here and has made a couple plastic things for me, I highly recommend his work.

I have been experimenting with knife and gun carry options for thousands of miles a year for many years. Everything is a compromise, but the chest sheath is a good one.

Prineville has less snow than Bend, but I think you will be fine all winter and more power to you! I still have several good friends in Bend that ride all year for transportation and recreation.
 
Something you might consider is a chest rig designed to cary a chinook in the open position. It should provide a comfotable way to carry while riding as well as quick access with your gloves and once you get off the bike you can just fold the thing up and stick it in your waistband.

just a thought
 
Edgetrip wrote:

"Something you might consider is a chest rig designed to cary a chinook in the open position."

A really great idea, especially when taken in conjunction with anomad's insights and the link to Survival Sheath.
I'll contact Survival Sheath for clarification on their chest system right after this post.

I found this discussion very enlightening.
Sometimes just talking about things will resolve an issue.

I apologize to Sal; but, I have now decided that one cannot improve on perfection.
Spyderco got it right with the Chinook II.
The more I live with it, the more I like it.
How often does that happen? :)
 
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