"the officer noticed a knife"

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Key issue: "The immediate question for investigators is whether that knife qualifies as a “switchblade” under Baltimore city statutes, given that Gray’s specimen was not a fully automatic knife. Another is whether, if officers spotted the knife without searching Gray, it could really be considered concealed."
 
The only reason anyone should ever go to Baltimore is to score heroin.
 
Ironic that Baltimore was the place where I bought my first one handed opener, a Spyderco, somewhere around 1993. I have visited on and off over the years and have always had a pocket knife clipped to my pants. I won't be doing that again. I like my spine where it is.
 
This is pathetic. What's worse,over zealous cops or the Nanny State politicians that create these draconian laws?
 
The article was well written in my opinion. I have often wondered if showing the pocket clip is enough to say that the knife is NOT concealed.

I would love to buy an OTF (I live in Virginia). I can carry one legally if showing the pocket clip is all I need to do.
 
Charlie Mike said:
The only reason anyone should ever go to Baltimore is to score heroin.
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I went there for work one time and I am neither a heroin dealer or user...

I am definitely interested in the concealed/non-concealed aspect of this and also whether or not they consider a "spring assisted, one-hand-operated knife" to be automatic. I am glad I live somewhere that this doesn't matter but I often travel to these places.
 
Personally, I don't think that the police officers' actions directly led to this man's injuries and subsequent death, but in the end it won't really matter and here's why:

1) The mobs of local degenerates believe whatever rumor they are told first by the handful of "leaders" that they actually listen to ("reverends", "community activists", ex felons with names like Something-X etc.) and have neither the capability nor the willingness to listen to facts, and the concept of impulse control isn't something they have any semblance of.

2) This man very may have been arrested for something that was not in fact against the law. In Maryland, you can openly carry an auto, but not concealed. Baltimore city bans auto possession entirely, but evidence is beginning to suggest that this man did not in fact have an auto but rather an assisted opener. Only in Ocean City are these illegal. Surprisingly, Maryland state knife laws are actually not very restrictive at all (no size limits, it's either a "switchblade" and illegal to carry concealed or it's not), some localities have additional restrictions though.

3) If he was in fact arrested for something that was not in fact a crime, they violated his civil rights under the 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th and 14 Amendments in doing so. Even if he were alive and had not sustained any physical injury, he would have a very valid case against the department and the city. That would be one that usually would be settled for a sum in the 5 figures. Escalate it now to include violating civil rights resulting in his death and the numbers grow astronomically. I can see this costing the city several million in the end.

4) There really won't be any winners, except the attorneys who represent the family. They will take roughly 40% of the settlement amount, plus expenses, before taxes. The family who get the remain sum will likely squander it on things like a clothing line and a record label and well just generally wasting it. Rodney King got something like $6M from LA and ended up dying completely broke...and he's not a rare case...
 
AmosPaul said:
Key issue: "The immediate question for investigators is whether that knife qualifies as a “switchblade” under Baltimore city statutes, given that Gray’s specimen was not a fully automatic knife. Another is whether, if officers spotted the knife without searching Gray, it could really be considered concealed."
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The "I saw a pocket clip" argument is bogus. All folding knives of any size are legal to carry in Maryland, concealed or open, with the exception of switchblades (defined as opening with the press of a button) or gravity knives. I have heard that Baltimore city laws are stricter than the state laws, but I doubt there is a total ban on folding knives, which is the only way the officers could have claimed to have a legitimate concern.
 
John-0917,,,Nice to see some one who understands the law and how it works.....I have heard very little in the national media about the possible possession of a illegal knife as the cause for the chase.
 
John_0917 said:
2) This man very may have been arrested for something that was not in fact against the law. In Maryland, you can openly carry an auto, but not concealed. Baltimore city bans auto possession entirely, but evidence is beginning to suggest that this man did not in fact have an auto but rather an assisted opener. Only in Ocean City are these illegal. Surprisingly, Maryland state knife laws are actually not very restrictive at all (no size limits, it's either a "switchblade" and illegal to carry concealed or it's not), some localities have additional restrictions though.
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I'm a native and have studied the law extensively, and this is completely accurate.

John_0917 said:
3) If he was in fact arrested for something that was not in fact a crime, they violated his civil rights under the 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th and 14 Amendments in doing so. Even if he were alive and had not sustained any physical injury, he would have a very valid case against the department and the city. That would be one that usually would be settled for a sum in the 5 figures. Escalate it now to include violating civil rights resulting in his death and the numbers grow astronomically. I can see this costing the city several million in the end.
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There is even case law in MD for this. Sorrell v McGuigan, 2002 ruled that a police officer erroneously arresting for a knife that is not in fact illegal is not only wrong but liable to a false arrest civil suit in federal court. The officer in this case got taken to the cleaners and his supervisor stuck him on desk duty the rest of his career. McGuigan is also an extremely rare case of a 100% innocent and compliant arrestee, who was just shopping at Aeropostale when police mistook him for someone else.
 
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The real question is what were they originally trying to stop him for? It doesn't seem like much good reason considering the arrest was made on the basis of having a pocket knife. The other question is why was he running? Regardless of the reasons, this is just another episode of police brutality, and police brutality against african americans.
 
yepimonfire said:
The real question is what were they originally trying to stop him for? It doesn't seem like much good reason considering the arrest was made on the basis of having a pocket knife. The other question is why was he running? Regardless of the reasons, this is just another episode of police brutality, and police brutality against african americans.
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My understanding is that the initial stop was for the knife, and he took off running and they caught him. As to why he ran, well we can't exactly ask him, but my sense is that it was because he was a young black man in Baltimore City being approached by police. I can't personally relate, but I can't say I really blame him, encounters like those don't tend to end well for people like him.

You need to understand though that the focus of policing and also the one guided by politics in Baltimore, and many other cities, is one that is very focused on "taking guns off the streets" and knives tie right into that. So to the police and the politicians in an environment like that, stopping him for a knife is VERY good reason for doing so.

As to your claim of "police brutality", there is no evidence at this point to support that in any way, shape or form.
 
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