The P.A.C.Knife by Wilson Custom Knives

[Sam Wilson]

Oh that is just slick!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you, Bear Claw. It's fun!

Sam.. I do hope you did not take my post for more than I posted.. I admire and appreciate your ability to make knives..I tried and FAILED big time!! Like I said.. JMO!! And we all know what is said about opinions!! Carry on!! :thumbup: John

John, absolutely not. I just like to explain stuff, and pretty much just have an excuse to talk about knives . No problem at all, and thank you for the compliments. Thank you for posting, that was actually what I wanted, different perspectives. Please continue!

I'm not a hunter so that would never have occurred to me. Thanks for explanation. For that task, is a false edge better than a distal taper or is it a matter of half dozen of one...?

And you're right. There's no perfect knife for everyone. That would be boring anyway.

It wouldn't have occurred to me either if I hadn't been talking with users doing research. That's exactly why I do these threads. So please continue, all of this helps me to make a better knife. Personally, I prefer a false edge done properly. I distal taper the knife anyway before the false edge is ground. But I taper it a little less than usual, and the false edge reduces the cross section but then quickly builds to thicker stock as it goes down. If you distally taper to the edge as thin as a false edge, it will have less steel and be slightly weaker. That's how I do it anyway, I hope that makes sense. And I agree, boring is not good !

 

[Sam Wilson]

I like it. Very much. I wouldn't buy one because I don't like the HH knives in general. Perhaps prejudiced by the junk that used to be available in the HH configuration. But I do like it.

I might also suggest that it is possible to compress the tube sides in a controlled way that makes the handle mimic the oval handles of the various leather washer field knives. That, to my experience, is essential in indexing the knife by feel rather than by sight, and a downfall of almost all HH type knives.

But that said, I like it very much. It speaks loudly of craftsmanship in F & F and forethought in design. The threaded FS socket is a nice touch.

Michael

ETA: The swedge is a nice touch. It adds to the appeal of an otherwise plain ground blade. And yes, for a hunter it is a useful feature.

Michael, thank you. I understand what you mean, it's similar to the old "440 mystery steel" bias. No problem, though. As far as the oval handle, I offer a "micarta" option. It's only about 1/16" thick, but allows me to contour the handle to an egg shape. The "micarta" also absorbs shock, heat/cold, and serves as a "regular" handle if the cord wrap has to be removed for emergency cordage.

I have tried compressing the sides, and even grinding them flatter. The grinding worked pretty well, but I only offer it at the customer's request, as like the micarta, it adds an extra step or two. That being said, thank you for the compliments, I appreciate it and it's obvious you know your knives, as I've seen from your posts. Much appreciated.

Please, keep it coming everyone. I love to find ways to improve these things.

Thank you,
Sam

 

[IH8U]

This thread popped up first when I opened tapatalk, so why not chime in. First off the blade shape is just plain sexy, second I agree with the other peeps who opted for the oval rather than round handle shape. I used to have a CRK mountaineer and could not use the knife for extended periods of time due to the round handle. I'll have to check out you testing criteria on the joint construction.

 

[Sam Wilson]

This thread popped up first when I opened tapatalk, so why not chime in. First off the blade shape is just plain sexy, second I agree with the other peeps who opted for the oval rather than round handle shape. I used to have a CRK mountaineer and could not use the knife for extended periods of time due to the round handle. I'll have to check out you testing criteria on the joint construction.

Thank you. I will post the video of me doing chin-ups on the knife whenever I get in tonight. There is also some brutal chopping and battening video. I'll throw it on here. The link to my YouTube channel is in my sigline, and they're all there.

Thank you,
Sam :thumbup:

 

[Rockywolf]

Have you experienced any loosening of the threaded butt cap or handle wrap in your testing? I love in a cold climate and would want to use it in the wet, both snow and rain.

 

[Hammer67]

Usually not a fan of the hollow handle, but this one looks cool as hell. Great job!

X 2. It's looks like a functional and useful knife - nice work! :thumbup:

 

[Sam Wilson]

Have you experienced any loosening of the threaded butt cap or handle wrap in your testing? I love in a cold climate and would want to use it in the wet, both snow and rain.

No, on both of those. The buttcap is threaded down about 3/8" and the O-ring, when compressed, provides pressure against the cap to keep it from unthreading. As far as the wrap, it is on there very tight, and the ends are tucked under the wrap. I have had these used in the Deep South, Wisonsin, Montana, Alaska, and a number of other places, including the ridiculous constant rain of Oregon here, and neither of those things have been an issue in the least.

X 2. It's looks like a functional and useful knife - nice work! :thumbup:

Thank you, sir. I wanted to make this one fun to get out and use. It weighs just a tad more than my Sebenza. I love it.

Sam :thumbup:

 

[trentu]

Outstanding work Sam! They are both great EDC additions to any belt. I prefer the wider guard though. You make some real nice blades. Keep up the good work. Always curious to see what you come out with next.:thumbup:

 

[Sam Wilson]

Outstanding work Sam! They are both great EDC additions to any belt. I prefer the wider guard though. You make some real nice blades. Keep up the good work. Always curious to see what you come out with next.:thumbup:

Thanks trentu! Glad to see you in here. The SAFE knife is proving to be popular for me, so you're not alone. I appreciate the encouragement, I hope to get a few more new designs out this year. Should be fun.

Thanks again,
Sam :thumbup:

 

[A.L.]

Oh that is just slick!!!!!!!!!!

Could not agree more, one clean looking knife! :thumbup:

 

[Sam Wilson]

Could not agree more, one clean looking knife! :thumbup:

Thank you, A.L., much appreciated!

Sam

 

[pepemrtnz]

I love it. Best hollow handle knife I've ever seen. Although, I'd much rather a minimalist kydex taco sheath to minimize weight. Any chance of that? Great stuff man!

 

[Sam Wilson]

I love it. Best hollow handle knife I've ever seen. Although, I'd much rather a minimalist kydex taco sheath to minimize weight. Any chance of that? Great stuff man!

Thank you, pepe. I'm not into kydex yet, I'm much more of a leather guy myself. I'm sure at some point I will get into kydex, but it will probably be awhile. Thank you for the compliments. :thumbup:

Sam

 

[LostViking]

I like that first one, with the Kephart style blade.

Outsatnding work. Love the sheath too. Personally I put a lot of value in a good sheath/knife combo.
They just compliment each other all day long.

Now that I'm over the initial wow factor. I'll go back and read the fine print.


LV,

 

[Sam Wilson]

I like that first one, with the Kephart style blade.

Outsatnding work. Love the sheath too. Personally I put a lot of value in a good sheath/knife combo.
They just compliment each other all day long.

Now that I'm over the initial wow factor. I'll go back and read the fine print.


LV,

Thank you, LV. That is the PACKnife you speak of, the Kephart style. I had based the design somewhat on the Al Mar SERE 2000, one of my favorite pocketknives for the woods. I just made it a little bigger, and rounded the tip somewhat for more strength.

The complementary factor you speak of is why I haven't got into kydex. I know leather is heavier and requires a bit more care, but just has more personality to me, and I love the look, feel and smell. I appreciate the kind words, and let me know if I can answer any questions.

Sam :thumbup:

 

[trentu]

I like it. Very much. I wouldn't buy one because I don't like the HH knives in general. Perhaps prejudiced by the junk that used to be available in the HH configuration. But I do like it.

I might also suggest that it is possible to compress the tube sides in a controlled way that makes the handle mimic the oval handles of the various leather washer field knives. That, to my experience, is essential in indexing the knife by feel rather than by sight, and a downfall of almost all HH type knives.

But that said, I like it very much. It speaks loudly of craftsmanship in F & F and forethought in design. The threaded FS socket is a nice touch.

Michael

ETA: The swedge is a nice touch. It adds to the appeal of an otherwise plain ground blade. And yes, for a hunter it is a useful feature.

You can actually put oval tapered strips on each side of the handle under the wrap. Gives the whole handle an oval feel. You can give the handle wrap a light brushed coat of epoxy for toughness also.

 

[The Zieg]

Great work and makes me want to try out the hollow handle concept on a future fishing trip--yours will be the one I go with when that happens!

Oval guard: I'm not keen on upper guards and would want to see that top half ground down in some fashion. I like to have the top of the forte available for my thumb. Then I'd want some gentle jimping for my thumb, too.

Round handle: I can see how it would be problematic for some field-dressing. I have this problem with Opinels sometimes. If your knife had some sort of index on the left and right of the handles where thumb and index fingers could, well, index the rotated angle of the blade. [Just read on your site that the micarta shims function this way.] But choking up a bit and putting the thumb and index on the left and right of the guard might just be the technique I'd use for this problem. Perhaps you could cut a scallop into each side of the guard.

Sheath: Don't change a thing there!

Pommel cap: Would love to see a lanyard loop there. Could just be a protruding button to thread some paracord through. I can see myself losing the cap and with cord through it I could put it around my wrist, neck, clip to the dangler, or otherwise secure it. I'm assuming you would not recommend the pommel as hammering tool due to the aluminum construction. [I see on your site you refer to hammering with the pommel as one of the reasons you don't put a compass in the cap. How do they hold up to the abuse?]

Blade: Thin is good for most of our outdoor uses. I need to be able to make small kindling, dress game, and gut fish with the same knife. Anything bigger and I reach for a hatchet.

Construction: How far down into the handle does the tang go? I trust your brutal testing, and I'm not about to fell a tree with a knife, but I'm curious what the cross-section would look like.

Visits: Do you have a storefront for your shop or a way for visitors to handle the product? I see myself back in that area sometime soon.

I know the point of this knife is to keep options few and construction simple in order to ensure an affordable knife. Our suggestions only raise the price. Still, some of these might be things you incorporate in all knives, thus changing your process and maintaining the price. Don't know, but thanks for being open and asking for input. It's fun to brainstorm these things.

Again, Great work!!!

Zieg

 

[Sam Wilson]

You can actually put oval tapered strips on each side of the handle under the wrap. Gives the whole handle an oval feel. You can give the handle wrap a light brushed coat of epoxy for toughness also.

Excellent post. I haven't tried that yet, as far as the strips, but I am going to elaborate more on the "micarta" option in the next post. I am currently testing a light coat of clear finish on the cord to prevent it from soaking up blood and dirt and other junk. If it goes well, it will become available on my knives. I know that Jimmy Lile used to do this, and apparently it was very effective. I will update my website when I am satisfied with it. If it goes well, obviously I will make it available to any knives currently owned by my customers.

Great ideas, trentu. :thumbup:

Sam

 

[Sam Wilson]

Great work and makes me want to try out the hollow handle concept on a future fishing trip--yours will be the one I go with when that happens!

Oval guard: I'm not keen on upper guards and would want to see that top half ground down in some fashion. I like to have the top of the forte available for my thumb. Then I'd want some gentle jimping for my thumb, too.

Round handle: I can see how it would be problematic for some field-dressing. I have this problem with Opinels sometimes. If your knife had some sort of index on the left and right of the handles where thumb and index fingers could, well, index the rotated angle of the blade. [Just read on your site that the micarta shims function this way.] But choking up a bit and putting the thumb and index on the left and right of the guard might just be the technique I'd use for this problem. Perhaps you could cut a scallop into each side of the guard.

Sheath: Don't change a thing there!

Pommel cap: Would love to see a lanyard loop there. Could just be a protruding button to thread some paracord through. I can see myself losing the cap and with cord through it I could put it around my wrist, neck, clip to the dangler, or otherwise secure it. I'm assuming you would not recommend the pommel as hammering tool due to the aluminum construction. [I see on your site you refer to hammering with the pommel as one of the reasons you don't put a compass in the cap. How do they hold up to the abuse?]

Blade: Thin is good for most of our outdoor uses. I need to be able to make small kindling, dress game, and gut fish with the same knife. Anything bigger and I reach for a hatchet.

Construction: How far down into the handle does the tang go? I trust your brutal testing, and I'm not about to fell a tree with a knife, but I'm curious what the cross-section would look like.

Visits: Do you have a storefront for your shop or a way for visitors to handle the product? I see myself back in that area sometime soon.

I know the point of this knife is to keep options few and construction simple in order to ensure an affordable knife. Our suggestions only raise the price. Still, some of these might be things you incorporate in all knives, thus changing your process and maintaining the price. Don't know, but thanks for being open and asking for input. It's fun to brainstorm these things.

Again, Great work!!!

Zieg

Zieg, thank you very much for the compliments. You bring up a lot of good points, and I would like to address them. I would like to state that obviously, I want to sell my knives. It's how I stay in business. But even for those not interested in hollow handle knives, or anything else I produce, I want people to know (those that don't already), that hollow handle knives, properly constructed, offer no significant weakness at the blade handle join. The blade is far more likely to snap at some other point. Even if snaps at the guard, this does not represent a failure of a HH knife, since a large number of hidden and full-tang knives break there, also. There is a tremendous amount of stress there during heavy use, and if something is going to give, other than the tip, that is probably where it is going to happen.

That being said, let me discuss the construction method on these, and then I will cover some of your other points. Before I even made this prototype, I took an aluminum handle tube and smacked it repeatedly with a hammer. I wasn't brutal, but I put some weight into it. Even the part of the handle that was beveled down right below the guard, and is thinner than 1/8" thick, didn't seriously deform. The outer surface flattened a little, but the inner diameter stayed true. I'm sure I could have beaten it down with a little more effort, but who's going to hammer on the handle of a 5.5 oz knife? Or any other knife, for that matter?

So when I actually built the knife, I took a steel sleeve and threaded it. I put the knife in the sleeve, which was machined to accept the tang, and then threaded that into the handle tube after putting some epoxy on the threads.

Then I ran an 1/8" steel pin through the handle, steel sleeve, and tang of the knife, and out the other side to prevent any unthreading, even knowing full well the epoxy on the threads would prevent that. Then I filled the whole area with additional epoxy. So now, the tang area literally couldn't be crushed by hand, it's filled with steel tang from the knife itself, steel sleeve, steel pin, and epoxy. And the knife won't be deconstructed without a torch to soften the epoxy and then you have to deal with the pin.

We went from the blade/handle join being the weakest part of the knife, to literally being the strongest. The 1/8" thick blade will easily snap before you could get that thing apart in the wilderness. Even if left in a fire overnight and the epoxy was destroyed and the aluminum warped, the worst you would have is some wiggle of the blade, but it would still be solidly planted in there.

I want people, whether they want one of my knives or not, to know how I do these and know they are overbuilt beyond belief. I make them to easily survive the worst a sane person would throw at them in the wilderness. I even draw the tang back to a spring temper, so that it SHOULD bend before breaking, if someone puts heavy lateral stress on it. Some will never care for HH knives, and I'm cool with that. But for those that are interested, I want them to know that everything reasonably possible has been done to ensure the knife is made well and will handle what you throw at it.

 

[Sam Wilson]

Great work and makes me want to try out the hollow handle concept on a future fishing trip--yours will be the one I go with when that happens!

Oval guard...


Zieg

Now, for the rest of your questions. And I do appreciate them. Please don't think I'm adversarial here. I want people's feedback, and I want to make the best knife possible. And for that I need real user feedback. So thank you.

Oval guard: I'm not keen on upper guards and would want to see that top half ground down in some fashion. I like to have the top of the forte available for my thumb. Then I'd want some gentle jimping for my thumb, too.

I customize pretty much any knife I make, so if someone wanted the guard ground down, that wouldn't be an issue. I simply offer the standard model in what I think will appeal to the most people, and what I like. But customizing is part of the whole fun of a custom knife. As far as jimping, that's probably not something I will offer right now. I will have to play with it at some point, and find a pattern I like and go from there.

Round handle: I can see how it would be problematic for some field-dressing. I have this problem with Opinels sometimes. If your knife had some sort of index on the left and right of the handles where thumb and index fingers could, well, index the rotated angle of the blade. [Just read on your site that the micarta shims function this way.] But choking up a bit and putting the thumb and index on the left and right of the guard might just be the technique I'd use for this problem. Perhaps you could cut a scallop into each side of the guard.

I probably won't alter the guard, but due to demand from several people, I have updated the website and offer the "micarta" option on this knife now. As explained on the site, it is about 1/16" thick, and it gives the handle a slight egg shape, a little thicker on the edge side, so you can feel the difference in your hand as to where is where.

Sheath: Don't change a thing there!

Thank you!

Pommel cap: Would love to see a lanyard loop there. Could just be a protruding button to thread some paracord through. I can see myself losing the cap and with cord through it I could put it around my wrist, neck, clip to the dangler, or otherwise secure it. I'm assuming you would not recommend the pommel as hammering tool due to the aluminum construction. [I see on your site you refer to hammering with the pommel as one of the reasons you don't put a compass in the cap. How do they hold up to the abuse?]

All future buttcaps will have a lanyard hole unless requested otherwise. The pics on this one were taken before I made the change. As far as hammering, if you hit something metal or rock, it will dent and scratch the buttcap. I hammer tent pins (aluminum) with mine, and it basically just mars the surface. If you hammer anything with a lot of force, I'm sure it will ding up the buttcap. I wouldn't recommend it for that purpose, but that is up to the user. It certainly isn't going to destroy it if you hammer on something with it, but it is aluminum, so just keep that in mind.

I am also testing a prototype buttcap that has a hardened steel plate attached to it. If this works out well, as I think it should, it will become optional. It will require an additional piece of stainless be cut, shaped, hardened and attached to the buttcap, so there will be an additional charge. But for those that want to hammer with it, it should be a great option. I decided against an all-steel buttcap because of the excessive weight, and that is why I went with aluminum. The compass situation is another story all to itself!

Blade: Thin is good for most of our outdoor uses. I need to be able to make small kindling, dress game, and gut fish with the same knife. Anything bigger and I reach for a hatchet.

I feel pretty much the same way, and that was part of the design concept for this knife. My prototype SAFE knife was 5/32" thick as opposed to the 3/16" thick standard, and I prefer it. I like my knives to slice.

Construction: How far down into the handle does the tang go? I trust your brutal testing, and I'm not about to fell a tree with a knife, but I'm curious what the cross-section would look like.

The tang goes down in to the handle about 1". See the post above for a detailed explanation of construction. In my opinion, biased obviously, it far exceeds what is necessary for this type of knife, but I have a problem with overbuilding things .

Visits: Do you have a storefront for your shop or a way for visitors to handle the product? I see myself back in that area sometime soon.

I know the point of this knife is to keep options few and construction simple in order to ensure an affordable knife. Our suggestions only raise the price. Still, some of these might be things you incorporate in all knives, thus changing your process and maintaining the price. Don't know, but thanks for being open and asking for input. It's fun to brainstorm these things.

Again, Great work!!!

I don't have a storefront, but if you're ever in Portland, contact me here or through Facebook or at wilsoncustomknives@gmail.com and I would be glad to meet up with you and talk knives, show you any stock I have, etc. And I understand what you mean about the options/price thing. I put out the base model for this knife to have a quality hollow handle knife available for under $300. But as far as custom orders, options are fun, and I like to get people what they want. I have had some of my best "ideas" from customers/users who gave me feedback, so I'm all for it.

Thank you very much, and please let me know if I can be of further assistance.

Sam Wilson :thumbup: