The Problem with Case Stockman Pocketknives

[TedderX]

Preface: I have attempted to take fair and honest pictures but I am no professional photographer.

The pocketknives in these pictures are:

-Jeep Stockman (JP-1009). Imitation Mother of Pearl. Unknown manufacturer but it does have "made in China" stamped on it.

-Case Medium Stockman (6318 SS). Pocket Worn Bermuda Green Bone.



1. I genuinely could never find a use for the third blade (major problem).

2. Because you have two blades competing for the space of one spring, you end up bending one of the two blades. This can be corrected in one of two manners. Either making each blade short enough they only reach the half way point or grinding the blades thinner and orienting them in opposite directions as to "nest" together. Case did neither of these (major problem).

Note the "nesting" effect created that allows two blades to fit in the space of one spring.

This next picture shows the different methods used by each company. Note the obvious bend in the top right blade of the Case Stockman.

This image shows one blade open and the bent blade closed. Note that the blade wants to return to it's "proper" location which is inhibited when both blades are closed, thus causing the bent blade.

In this image, I placed the blade next to a straight edge to show the blade has begun to bend. Because the blade is bent while closed, it has begun to bend permanently.

3. Due to both blades wanting to occupy the same space, when closing either blade, one cutting edge will hit the top of already closed blade. This will dent and dull your cutting edge. Due to the speed created by the force of the spring, your pocketknife will close because the cutting edge will hit the top of the second blade and "deflect" into the closed position. However, this is not true in every instance. In fact, your blade could remain partially open and the user not realize it, potentially causing a hazard in the pocket or next time you grab the pocketknife (major problem).

4. The blades being forced together will eventually scar the mirror-like finish Case is known for. This will occur quickly, even directly from retailer. For me, this pocketknife was a carry knife (minor problem) but may be a major problem for collectors.

In this image, we can see problem #3 and #4. Note that I have purposely slowed the speed of the closing action to depict that the cutting edge can in fact come to rest on the top of the second blade, thus not properly closing.

5. In practical use, this spey blade seems too small to castrate livestock, which is it's intended purpose. However I am no rancher and would have to seek advice from a professional (major problem).



After a few years of being a customer I have come to the conclusion that Case is in fact a very smart and thoughtful company in the research, design, and execution of their products. So the question becomes, why did Case choose to manufacture this pattern in this manner?

 

[SVTFreak]

The blade is bent like that on purpose to nest in. Referred to as "crinked" I've heard. The edge should not be hitting the back of the other blade. That's the reason to crink it.

If you don't like the spey, and don't like the way stockman is built, maybe it's not for you. And improved trapper might be a better fit.

 

[Railsplitter]

That certainly can be a problem and I don't like the looks of that bent blade either.

That is what I like to call a "crinked" blade. Case and some other manufacturers do this on some of their knives. Actually, it's very common but your blade shouldn't be bending like that and hugging the liner with the other blade opened.

Case does make some knives with offset blades (not crinked) like the top knife in your pictures. The only two I can think of are the Humpback Stockman and the Case/Bose Norfolk but I'm sure there must be others.

I have a three blade Queen knife with a sheepsfoot blade that is bent even worse than yours. It's actually "S" shaped if you can imagine that. I've never had a Case knife with a bent blade but plenty of them are crinked.

If this bothers you a lot take a look at the Humpback Stockman. It's a really nice pattern with sunken joints and offset blades.

 

[VCM3]

The blade is bent like that on purpose to nest in. Referred to as "crinked" I've heard. The edge should not be hitting the back of the other blade. That's the reason to crink it.

If you don't like the spey, and don't like the way stockman is built, maybe it's not for you. And improved trapper might be a better fit.

Thank you for typing my post too

TedderX you can find a knife they call a jack,it has the clip main & a sheepsfoot scondary blade at one pivot end,and a handle like a stockman. I'm sure there's all kinds of names for the style.

This is what's nice about traditional pocket knives,there's all kinds out there. Huge Scope

 

[supratentorial]

1. I genuinely could never find a use for the third blade (major problem).

Not really a problem since there are many 2-blade knives. The book description for a similar knife (built with stockman parts) and 2 blades is "premium jack". There are double end (usually single spring) as well as knives with two springs.

2. Because you have two blades competing for the space of one spring, you end up bending one of the two blades. This can be corrected in one of two manners. Either making each blade short enough they only reach the half way point or grinding the blades thinner and orienting them in opposite directions as to "nest" together. Case did neither of these (major problem).

Crinking blades is a very old technique. It is not something that needs to be "corrected". You may have a personal preference another type of construction. In addition to "offset" blades, another method sometimes used is to put each blade on a separate spring. Case uses 3 springs on their current 47 pattern stockman. Buck also uses 3 springs on their current 301. Vintage stock knives were typically crinked.

This image shows one blade open and the bent blade closed. Note that the blade wants to return to it's "proper" location which is inhibited when both blades are closed, thus causing the bent blade.

That is not normal. Return it or send it in for warranty repair/replacement.

In this image, I placed the blade next to a straight edge to show the blade has begun to bend. Because the blade is bent while closed, it has begun to bend permanently.

The blade is bent because it was crinked intentionally at the factory. It is supposed to be bent. You may prefer a sowbelly from Case since the blades are offset. Or you might prefer a 47 stockman with 3 springs.... or might prefer a knife with 2 blades.

3. Due to both blades wanting to occupy the same space, when closing either blade, one cutting edge will hit the top of already closed blade. This will dent and dull your cutting edge. Due to the speed created by the force of the spring, your pocketknife will close because the cutting edge will hit the top of the second blade and "deflect" into the closed position. However, this is not true in every instance. In fact, your blade could remain partially open and the user not realize it, potentially causing a hazard in the pocket or next time you grab the pocketknife (major problem).

4. The blades being forced together will eventually scar the mirror-like finish Case is known for. This will occur quickly, even directly from retailer. For me, this pocketknife was a carry knife (minor problem) but may be a major problem for collectors.

In this image, we can see problem #3 and #4. Note that I have purposely slowed the speed of the closing action to depict that the cutting edge can in fact come to rest on the top of the second blade, thus not properly closing.

As said previously, this is not normal. It should be sent in for repair.

5. In practical use, this spey blade seems too small to castrate livestock, which is it's intended purpose. However I am no rancher and would have to seek advice from a professional (major problem).

After a few years of being a customer I have come to the conclusion that Case is in fact a very smart and thoughtful company in the research, design, and execution of their products. So the question becomes, why did Case choose to manufacture this pattern in this manner?

I use the spey blade as a scraper. Some folks like to use it for food but I don't generally use a pocket knife for food (that's the purpose of kitchen knives).

Case is in no way the only company using crinked blades. It is a very old technique and still widely used today. Furthermore, GEC probably bends more of the blades on their knives than most companies. Bending blades is the method used by GEC to straighten their blades. GEC anneals the tangs and knocks the blade until the tip is centered in the well. There are a couple of examples of GEC knives posted where the blade was wildly bent when not closed. Every company makes mistakes. Things like this happen when making knives using old techniques and equipment and skilled labor. I appreciate the work of both Case and GEC. I am not a dealer and my posts aren't motivated by financial interest.

As I said, your knife needs to be repaired. The blade should be crinked so that it isn't pushed by the other blades. The sheepfoot should not rest near the liner and be pushed away by the spey blade. Case should fix it.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Can't add to what's already been pointed out. Traditional 3-blade stockman patterns on 2 springs will almost always have a 'bent' (crinked) blade by design; usually it's the sheepsfoot. The edge of the crinked blade shouldn't impact the spine of the adjacent blade on closing, but that's fixable. Case can and will fix it. And it'll still be 'bent' after it's fixed, and properly so, for such a pattern.


David

 

[VashHash]

In this day and age more and more people will complain about something instead of sending it in. A lot of companies will stand behind their products and fix the issue or replace the knife. If the company refuses to fix it then you might want to post about it. Everyone makes mistakes and oversight does happen. Judging a company by one knife out of millions produced is probably a bad idea. More appropriate title for this thread "the problem with my case stockman".

 

[JD Bear]

In this day and age more and more people will complain about something instead of sending it in. A lot of companies will stand behind their products and fix the issue or replace the knife. If the company refuses to fix it then you might want to post about it. Everyone makes mistakes and oversight does happen. Judging a company by one knife out of millions produced is probably a bad idea. More appropriate title for this thread "the problem with my case stockman".

Well said. If someone has been a customer of Case for years, as the OP stated, I would think they would have come across more than one stockman but I don't want to assume that. Regardless, anyone that owns more than one Case would be able to tell a knife that was in need of an exchange or warranty work. I can't figure out if this thread was started to ask for advise on whether to send it to Case for repair, or just to bash Case. Which I for one would not appreciate.....

 

[jc57]

Most of the Case stockman patterns use crinked blades to allow for 3 blades on a 2-spring knife. It is part of the design and is not unique to Case.

There are a few exceptions within the Case product line. The current '47 pattern Stockman uses 3 springs, and some of the other patterns use offset grinds.

Blade rub is nearly inevitable and harmless with the crinked blade designs. The blade edges should not contact the spines of the other blades when closing, however. That should be fixed, either by the factory, or by the user if he has the proper skills.

If you don't like crinked-blade designs in general, you should avoid those patterns and/or brands that use them. I have one 3-blade GEC and one 3-blade Queen pattern, and they both use crinked blades (and have blade rub). So it is not unique to Case.

As an alternative, Buck makes some nice sturdy users with a 3-spring design in the 301 and 303 models.

I personally have no problems with crinked-blade patterns. I own, carry, and use a number of Case stockman patterns both with and without crinked blades. None have a problem with the blade edge striking a closed blade spine when closing.

 

[Modoc ED]

Much ado about nothing by the OP. That's the way of the stockman pattern. If you don't like the pattern, move on to one that suits you.

The pressure you apply when opening a blade pushes it out of line slightly allowing for blade rub. Almost all of the stockman knives I have have blade rub.

Some manufactures use an extra liner to prevent blade rub and not having to krink a blade.

You can see the extra liner on the right as you look at the picture of this GEC Calf Roper.

To address the title of this thread - "The Problem with Case Stockman Pocketknives":

There is no problem with Case Stockman Pocketknives!!!

 

[joeradza]

Well said Ed.

 

[NMpops]

Most of the Case stockman patterns use crinked blades to allow for 3 blades on a 2-spring knife. It is part of the design and is not unique to Case.

There are a few exceptions within the Case product line. The current '47 pattern Stockman uses 3 springs, and some of the other patterns use offset grinds.

Blade rub is nearly inevitable and harmless with the crinked blade designs. The blade edges should not contact the spines of the other blades when closing, however. That should be fixed, either by the factory, or by the user if he has the proper skills.

If you don't like crinked-blade designs in general, you should avoid those patterns and/or brands that use them. I have one 3-blade GEC and one 3-blade Queen pattern, and they both use crinked blades (and have blade rub). So it is not unique to Case.

As an alternative, Buck makes some nice sturdy users with a 3-spring design in the 301 and 303 models.

I personally have no problems with crinked-blade patterns. I own, carry, and use a number of Case stockman patterns both with and without crinked blades. None have a problem with the blade edge striking a closed blade spine when closing.

Couldn't agree more and not much to add except I currently have 10 Case Stockman, most are 6318's with only one 6347. I have never had an issue with the crinked blade and after checking a few just now, with the Spey open, none of the Sheepsfoot blades look like the OP's knife. The blade rub on my sheepsfoot blade is caused by the spey being pushed against the SF as it's being opened. When closing either blade there is no blade rub.

Just a thought, he didn't mention if he got the knife new or used. It appears well used and I wonder if someone attempted to straighten it at some point, causing the problems he is complaining about.

 

[calvinw]

Here's a picture of my newest stockman. Blades a crinked, and it gets close, but doesn't touch (large pic so you can zoom in).

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[traumkommode]

Your observations notwithstanding, I'm going to echo your preference. I don't mind a 2-blade knife, and I kinda like single spring pens and 2 spring moose configurations with the right blade combos. But even then I don't often use the second blade. That's just me. Lots of folks use all 3 blades on a stockman, and some of those, if given their druthers, might add a 4th blade to the equation. Different blades for different jobs. Frank has a pretty straightforward philosophy when it comes to his use of a stockman.

The other thing to consider is the length of time between sharpenings that having more than one blade offers you. A single blade modern folder with a hot-rod steel will hold a sharp edge for a lot longer than a traditional knife with blades made from steels like 1095 or CV/Tru-Sharp. BUT, when you have 3 (or 2) blades in one knife, and you spread out your cutting across all 3 blades, you can figure maybe even up to 3x the cutting than you would get from one single blade.

But if the stockman ain't for you then it ain't for you. And that's alright. It ain't for me, either. I like my single blade half moon trapper with 14-4CrMo steel.

 

[jc57]

...
Just a thought, he didn't mention if he got the knife new or used. It appears well used and I wonder if someone attempted to straighten it at some point, causing the problems he is complaining about.

That was my thought too. It looks like someone tried to bend it back to straight, which is what is causing the issue with the blades hitting each other. I have and carry several Case 6318s and when the spey is open, the sheepsfoot blade doesn't move and is almost touching the clip blade.

As far as to what to use the spey blade for; well, I have no need to castrate livestock. But what it is, is a sharp knife blade with some belly on the end and not much in the way of a point. So, it does a fine job of cutting anything where you don't need a point, or a perfectly straight edge. It is one of my more often used blades on a stockman. Cutting packing tape on a box is a good example. That allows me to preserve the edges on the other blades for tasks where they are specifically needed, and not have to worry about cleaning off packing-tape stickum.

 

[pholder]

Much ado about nothing by the OP. That's the way of the stockman pattern. If you don't like the pattern, move on to one that suits you.

The pressure you apply when opening a blade pushes it out of line slightly allowing for blade rub. Almost all of the stockman knives I have have blade rub.

Some manufactures use an extra liner to prevent blade rub and not having to krink a blade.

You can see the extra liner on the right as you look at the picture of this GEC Calf Roper.

To address the title of this thread - "The Problem with Case Stockman Pocketknives":

There is no problem with Case Stockman Pocketknives!!!

:thumbup: there are no problems, the blade rubs and? they are cutting implements intended to be used. like new cars the first scratch is the hardest. if one only intends to admire the beauty of one's knife and remain untouched, drop the coin , go custom and be happy

 

[Will Power]

You've been asking a lot of questions lately and this is good and people have been trying to answer them for you. But with this thread, I think you've misinterpreted the situation with Stockman.

If the Stockman annoys you due to crinking or the manufacturing fault then send it in for repair or consider alternatives.

Many Whittlers offer an interesting assortment of blades: Clip, Pen, Small Clip, Wharncliffe, Coping, Spear etc. They often feel good in the hand compared to some High Hump Stockmans, but it depends.

Buck offers non crinked all stainless Stockmans that are not too bulky or heavy (the smaller ones).

 

[W.M.B.]

I have helped castrate livestock with a scalpel, which is very similar in size and shape to the spey on my case stock man knives. It would work fine if it is sharp enough. On my own critters I've only used the elastrator. It is just what it sounds like.

Sent from my N9519 using Tapatalk

 

[AndreLinoge]

It does look like someone tried to 'fix' the 'bent' sheepsfoot -and wrecked that knife. I wonder if case would fix it or call it abuse.. they may fix it anyway, or you can get another that works properly easily enough.
The 3 blade frame offers good flexibility fo different tasks, and its a favorite of mine in many shapes of traditionals.

I reckon if I had to pick a style of secondary nesting I liked best, i would say i prefer the look of thinner, relieved blades over a severely krinked sheepsfoot. This is only a preference in medium framed stockmans. Large ones usually have room in the frame and thicker blades that dont show the krink as prominently, and smaller ones are usually done in very thin stock that fits more neatly in the little fat frame (on my old timers anyway) and that seems to look neater. Less bent.

 

[popedandy]

The spey blade is the best blade for roughing out the bowl of a wooden spoon if you use a traditional knife to whittle stuff like that. The stockman pattern is actually a pretty good whittling knife.