The Raven

T

Terrill

Joined
Feb 23, 2000
Messages
632
Now that Blade has run the article I can run my mouth. I didn't do the testing but I got to watch every bit of it. Anyone with the new copy of Blade has notice that Rob Simonich is on the cover. Rob has a crew that can turn out a knife and the production blades should do well! But am I the only one that noticed he'll never earn a living shoeing horses? Rob had already gone through the bar once with the knife and was going to do it again. You can see that it is already half way in the shot taken. It wasn't until I got the film back and lined up all of the shots before I noticed, Rob hit the side of the blade and missed the top! No wonder he broke it.
For what it is worth let me say this, I had the pleasure of being there that day and I'm still talking about it. The first time I saw the knife I passed it off as another "Tactical" blade. Now that I have reach that age where the younger men go out to fight my battles, I thought it would be useful for them but that I really wouldn't need one. Well those two days weren't spent completely tearing up knives. Earlier, Wallace, Rob and I had taken a couple of four wheelers and wandered around the farm. I had noticed that Rob had one of the knives strapped to his belt and he didn't think twice about pulling it out for everything from tearing up anthills to see what a fire" ant looked like to prying up rocks. I didn't say anything at the time but I thought to myself that I wouldn't use one of my fine "customs" for that. Riding around is when I first started to really think about how useful a knife like that could be. You don't have to abuse it, but you don't mind USING it!
Once we got back to the group, I got to stand on the sidelines and watch everyone perform! I had seen the articles showing the cutting abilities of this knife or that one. But this time I was there and I knew I would see "the tricks of the trade"! I watch as Rob went from one size rope to another until that got boring. Then came the cans! Know we all know cutting a can is no big deal. But slicing through it in one swing without moving the bottom half is saying something. (plus it is a joke to watch everyone get wet) I don't know why Rob decided to attack that stump but that is when everyone started to watch. Rob did exactly what we all know you should not do! He started using his knife as a pry bar. The stump lost.
Then came the fencing. Once the chain links became boring, Rob went after the tensioning bars. It wasn't until he had gone through it once and was going after it again, that the blade broke. Thank God, he was looking at my Ram Charger in the driveway with this silly smile on his face.
Now I know that in the knife community the endorsement of a photographer doesn't count for much. But before the end of the day I had worked out a deal with Rob for one of the few blades he had left. It may be one of the first production models and not his "custom" line but I damn proud of it.


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Great story and it sounds like us peons missed out on a great time. One question though, where the hell are the pics! :rolleyes:
 
Thanks for the info Terrill. I plan on purchasing a Simonich sometime in the near future. Can't wait for the article, sounds to be a good read. By the way, I plan on getting a Midtech as well as a custom.
 
Cliff 3/4" x 3/16". I am not sure of the make up but it was the tensioning bar out of the chain link fence. I can say this, the stress testing between cutting the bar and prying out of the stump is much more than any reasonable man could ever expect out of a knife.
Raven.jpg
 
Thanks for the details. In regards to the prying, was it in the top or the side of the stump? How much of the blade was in the wood? Was the force just pulling, or was it like body weight on top of the blade? How much of a bend was induced in the blade? For the bar cutting, roughly how many hits are we talking about to cut it, more or less than a dozen? Are they heavy swings like you would use to drive a 3.5" nail? In regards to the picture of the side on impact, is it possible to post that, it would be informative to see.

-Cliff
 
Terrill, the steel bar was 1/4" X 3/4", and I believe it is just mild steel. I measured the cut piece I have here.

Cliff, I used full power swings with a 2 pound hammer to cut the bar, took about 10 swings. The edge is .022 before sharpening.

For the stump thing, I started by driving the tip in the top of the hardwood stump about and inch and pulling it out sideways, then 1 1/2" then 2" etc till at about 3 inches I couldnt pry it out sideways. The blade took about a 2 degree set. Ill try to get a picture of it that shows the bent portion.

Ive since used a S30-V Raven to chop through a concrete block, real concrete, not a cinder block.

S30-V is the best stainless on the market in my opinion.
 
Thanks for the details Rob, was the steel on the stump when you cut through it, or did you have it on something to keep it from bending around the blade as it was being cut. Was the edge sharpened at ~22 degrees or so, or more obtuse? Concerning the concrete block chopping, why do you feel that it isn't a valid test, as you recently stated, yet chiseling the knife through a mild steel bar using a hammer is a suitable durability test?

The bend surprised me considering the steel thickness and sabre grind. Stainless blades of that thickness take a hell of a torque to put a bend into, see the data Fallkniven gathered on VG-10 for example. Were you bracing yourself off the stump when you pulled, or just resisting with your bodyweight? Would one of your A2 blades of similar geometry also have taken a bend in the prying, and then broken during the hammering?

Regardless of the results, I am impressed with your willingness to do a public demonstration of the blades abilities over such a broad range of usage, I wish it was more common. The grip looks very secure, by the way, nice checkering pattern.

-Cliff
 
First, here is a picture of the bend in the brokenblade. I hope the picture is good enough to show the bend. The steel thickness is about 7/32nds, or about .215 finished thickness.

I sharpen these at about 20 degrees per side, I sharpen using no jig, but after several thousand knives I can come pretty close.

Concerning the concrete block chopping, why do you feel that it isn't a valid test, as you recently stated, yet chiseling the knife through a mild steel bar using a hammer is a suitable durability test?
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Good question and I knew that would come up! Actually in all honesty, I feel the concrete block test is more valid than cutting through a steel bar. Several have made a good point in that a knife may indeed hit hard objects suchas gravel etc while chopping. I also used the Raven that week to do a lot of digging, and stabbing a blade in the ground you will hit rocks. So I guess you could say I have changed my mind on the validity of the Concrete block chopping. I think a better test may be just digging holes though. The reason I cut the steel bar was, well, to see if the knife would do it! The knife wasnt damaged that I or Jerry Fisk could see hammering it through the chain link fence, and the steel was laying there sowhy not. It was my intention to take the knife to destruction anyway. The bar was laying flat on the stump, nothing underneath it. I think this is about as abusive as you can be with a knife, you have steel on the bottom, hardened steel in the middle, and hardened steel doing the hammering. The shockwaves traveling through the middle piece, (knife) have to be horrendous.

Were you bracing yourself off the stump when you pulled, or just resisting with your bodyweight? Would one of your A2 blades of similar geometry also have taken a bend in the prying, and then broken during the hammering?
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I was braced and pulling as hard as my romping stomping 145 pounds of pure raw muscle and sinew could muster! I dont know how many degrees of flex I was pulling the knife, but I feel it was one of the stiffest knives I had ever done that with. I have done that with carbon steel blades of similar geometry and they flex easier. In my opinion, the S30-V knife surpassed any A-2 knives I have made in all areas. That includes flex, toughness, (chipping resistance) edge holding and corrosion resistance.
 

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I will add a few items.
First, Rob wasn't going to quit until he broke that blade! Myself, I would of been happy just clipping pieces of the chain link.
Second, No one present was trying to be "exact" about any of the testing. We were having fun! (and a few beers)
Third, I was amazed that the knife held up as long as it did. I would NEVER subject a blade to any of the testing that was done. Or should I say that I would never do it to a knife I own. Rob, I'll help you tear up YOUR knife anytime. (you buy the beer)
 
Whew! I'm getting excited just reading that post... that's one @$#$@ amazing tool...

aXed
 
I agree with the hole digging being more directly correlated to actual use, however the problem is that it isn't so readily duplicated so it is hard for someone to figure out just what you did and thus give it some meaning. Whereas if you say you chopped a specific size notch in a concrete block in so many hits, someone can do the same thing fairly easy and thus understand just what is going on.

Thanks for the details on the prying and such. I got ahold of some tension bar this weekend. I could not cut it up though as it was in a friends fence. It was easy to bend by hand though. I'll see if I can't get some this week and see how hard it is to cut up with ten hits or so with that class of a hammer. The fence itself is very soft, much softer than nails which I have cut up before without any serious harm, up to 3.5" common. The biggest problem with nail cutting is having them wrap around the blade as they are drove into the backing, thus you are better off cutting them on something solid like very hard plastic.

The rope cutting isn't surprising, consider that Thompson does one inch hemp with his small folders, so with a decent amount of skill it doesn't take a lot of knife to do that. However the can cutting is fairly impressive, especially as it doesn't look crumpled and isn't knocked over, that takes a fair amount of skill regardless of the knife. I am still working on trying to do that consistently with an empty can without knocking the bottom over.

-Cliff
 
The chain link wire we had is very stiff. I amnot sure if there are different grades of chain link, but it is certainly a higher alloy than mild steel so it can hold its shape. It is hard to kink by hand compared to say barbed wire.

Rope cutting is in my opinion a sharpness test, as well as the can cutting. We tried empty can cutting hanging the can from a light thread and no one was able to do that cut. I had never even tried the can cut before that shot, maybe I got lucky!
 
Since we are still talking about the Raven, I'll add one more test. Index fingers are nothing to it! I was setting it up for a shot when it slipped and like a fool I tried to grab it! Not bad but it does have an edge. No Cliff, do NOT try and duplicate this test!
Raven1.jpg
 
Great job Rob.., saw the piece in Blade of course.., that's some knife!!


"Hunters seek what they [WANT].., Seekers hunt what they [NEED]"
 
This knife is more than "some knife". The knife just reeks coolness! I can only imagine how troops in Vietnam would have loved to have this knife at the time.
 
Originally posted by Rob Simonich
In my opinion, the S30-V knife surpassed any A-2 knives I have made in all areas. That includes flex, toughness, (chipping resistance) edge holding and corrosion resistance. [/B]
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This is very good to hear.

Thanks for a good thread and article.

Rob, good idea starting the production company. I wish you success and will keep my eye out for all the models you intend to offer.
Post pics here when you have a chance.
 
Is the heat treat for this public? Soak temp/time, cryo method, temper specifics (single/multi temp)?

-Cliff
 
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