The real reason balisongs were banned?

vaccine said:
big trouble in little china made them look super scary
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California banned shooting lightning as a direct result of that eye opening documentary. Ironically, Six Demon Bags are now legal to possess as long as it's under an ounce.

big_trouble_in_little_china_017.jpg
 
OrangeBlueOrangeBlue said:
From the horse's mouth:

HON. KENNETH B. KEATING OF NEW YORK IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Wednesday, January 8, 1958
Mr. KEATING. Mr. Speaker, yesterday I introduced a bill to prohibit the interstate commerce in stilettos and switchblade and gravity knives. This is one important way in which the Federal Government can help localities combat juvenile delinquency.
Under terms of the bill, the knowing manufacture, importation, or transportation of stilettos or switchblade or gravity knives would be punishable by fines of not more than $2,000 or imprisonment for not more than 5 years, or both. The sale or offer for sale of such knives with the knowledge they were carried in interstate commerce or imported from a foreign country would subject the seller to a fine of not more than $1,000. or imprisonment for not more than 2 years, or both. In the case of sales or offers to youths under 18, the penalty would be not more than $5,000 or imprisonment for not more than 5 years, or both.
Specifically exempted under this bill would be common carriers and freight forwarders who inadvertently ship such knives and those who deal with such articles in connection with their use by the Armed Forces.
The recent rash of teenage crimes and violence in various sections of the country emphasizes once again the magnitude of the challenge of juvenile delinquency. Increasingly, we hear demands that the Federal Government should take a more active role in coping with these problems.
Unfortunately, there are few areas in which the National Government can legitimately assist local groups in combating youthful terrorism. However, by helping to curb the sale and availability of the stiletto and switchblade and gravity knife-through the proper exercise of its power over interstate commerce-- the Government can play a decisive role in depriving teenage hoodlums of their favorite weapon.
Statistics indicate that in the last 5 years, 5 million of these insidious tools have been sold in this country. Their cheap price-95 cents to $1.29-brlngs them readily within the buying range of our younger people, and as a result they have become standard equipment with teenage gangs.
When you consider that 43 percent of the total robberies in the United States last year were by people under 21 years of age, or that last year in New York City 40 percent of the felonious assaults were perpetrated by those under 16, the importance of juvenile crime cannot be discounted. In many of these cases, the switchblade or gravity knife was the chief weapon.
These lethal, vicious weapons can be concealed in the palm of the hand and then, by pressing a button or by a quick flick of the wrist, the blade can be suddenly extended toward the victim. There are practically no useful purposes for the switchblade or gravity knife-- and none whatsoever for the deadly stiletto which has no cutting edge, only a sharp, dangerous point. Clearly, the few useful purposes for these articles are insignificant compared to the obvious criminal use to which they are put in most cases. Their presence should be stamped off the face of our Nation as soon as possible.
It is true that 12 States, including New York, have enacted laws in an attempt to curb the sale and possession of these weapons. Already Congress has banned them in the District of Columbia. But through nuances in design and by advertising and sale through the mails, these local laws are today being effectively circumvented. When local laws cannot effectively cope with a problem, the Federal Government is required to take up the slack. By vigorous application of the powers granted by this bill, the Federal power over interstate commerce can end this influx of stilettos and switchblade and gravity knives.
This proposal has the strong approval of local law enforcement officials all over the country who are, after all, in the best position to evaluate the need.
By prohibiting the interstate transportation and sale of stilettos and switchblade and gravity knives, we will at least be depriving teenage gangs of their favorite weapon. Though this is by no means an answer to the deep challenges of juvenile delinquency, it is one way in which the effectiveness of youthful terrorists can be blunted.
I hope Congress will give speedy consideration to this measure.
Click to expand...

Note how he had actual numbers for the part highlighted in red, but then he makes an unverifiable assertion that he knew he could not prove highlighted in blue. And then he devolved into the emotional manipulation.

Emotion-pimping to push bad legislation is not new!
 
OrangeBlueOrangeBlue said:
From the horse's mouth:

HON. KENNETH B. KEATING OF NEW YORK IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Wednesday, January 8, 1958
Mr. KEATING. Mr. Speaker, yesterday I introduced a bill to prohibit the interstate commerce in stilettos and switchblade and gravity knives. This is one important way in which the Federal Government can help localities combat juvenile delinquency.
Under terms of the bill, the knowing manufacture, importation, or transportation of stilettos or switchblade or gravity knives would be punishable by fines of not more than $2,000 or imprisonment for not more than 5 years, or both. The sale or offer for sale of such knives with the knowledge they were carried in interstate commerce or imported from a foreign country would subject the seller to a fine of not more than $1,000. or imprisonment for not more than 2 years, or both. In the case of sales or offers to youths under 18, the penalty would be not more than $5,000 or imprisonment for not more than 5 years, or both.
Specifically exempted under this bill would be common carriers and freight forwarders who inadvertently ship such knives and those who deal with such articles in connection with their use by the Armed Forces.
The recent rash of teenage crimes and violence in various sections of the country emphasizes once again the magnitude of the challenge of juvenile delinquency. Increasingly, we hear demands that the Federal Government should take a more active role in coping with these problems.
Unfortunately, there are few areas in which the National Government can legitimately assist local groups in combating youthful terrorism. However, by helping to curb the sale and availability of the stiletto and switchblade and gravity knife-through the proper exercise of its power over interstate commerce-- the Government can play a decisive role in depriving teenage hoodlums of their favorite weapon.
Statistics indicate that in the last 5 years, 5 million of these insidious tools have been sold in this country. Their cheap price-95 cents to $1.29-brlngs them readily within the buying range of our younger people, and as a result they have become standard equipment with teenage gangs.
When you consider that 43 percent of the total robberies in the United States last year were by people under 21 years of age, or that last year in New York City 40 percent of the felonious assaults were perpetrated by those under 16, the importance of juvenile crime cannot be discounted. In many of these cases, the switchblade or gravity knife was the chief weapon.
These lethal, vicious weapons can be concealed in the palm of the hand and then, by pressing a button or by a quick flick of the wrist, the blade can be suddenly extended toward the victim. There are practically no useful purposes for the switchblade or gravity knife-- and none whatsoever for the deadly stiletto which has no cutting edge, only a sharp, dangerous point. Clearly, the few useful purposes for these articles are insignificant compared to the obvious criminal use to which they are put in most cases. Their presence should be stamped off the face of our Nation as soon as possible.
It is true that 12 States, including New York, have enacted laws in an attempt to curb the sale and possession of these weapons. Already Congress has banned them in the District of Columbia. But through nuances in design and by advertising and sale through the mails, these local laws are today being effectively circumvented. When local laws cannot effectively cope with a problem, the Federal Government is required to take up the slack. By vigorous application of the powers granted by this bill, the Federal power over interstate commerce can end this influx of stilettos and switchblade and gravity knives.
This proposal has the strong approval of local law enforcement officials all over the country who are, after all, in the best position to evaluate the need.
By prohibiting the interstate transportation and sale of stilettos and switchblade and gravity knives, we will at least be depriving teenage gangs of their favorite weapon. Though this is by no means an answer to the deep challenges of juvenile delinquency, it is one way in which the effectiveness of youthful terrorists can be blunted.
I hope Congress will give speedy consideration to this measure.
Click to expand...
Note major logical flaw in the manner the statistics are quoted: They state how many knives were sold, then quote a complete unrelated stat about the proportion of robberies committed by an age group. Not once, not ONCE, is statistical evidence presented as to the frequency or proportion of these weapons being used to physically harm another person (which is confined to the crimes of battery and murder). I beat this drum a lot, but mere possession alone, or use in crimes where no one is harmed, is not evidence of how dangerous something is.
 
glistam said:
Note major logical flaw in the manner the statistics are quoted: They state how many knives were sold, then quote a complete unrelated stat about the proportion of robberies committed by an age group. Not once, not ONCE, is statistical evidence presented as to the frequency or proportion of these weapons being used to physically harm another person (which is confined to the crimes of battery and murder). I beat this drum a lot, but mere possession alone, or use in crimes where no one is harmed, is not evidence of how dangerous something is.
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Mark Twain and others in the 1890s and early 1900s popularized a saying that came from the mid-1880s and is itself a rephrasing of an even earlier saying -

"There 3 kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."

Taking it a little further, I say there are 3 kinds of liars - criminals, lawyers and politicians. But that is being repetitive.
 
I definately think there is a racial component.
Most (?) knife people dont care, or care to defend 'balisong rights'.
 
glistam said:
I beat this drum a lot, but mere possession alone, or use in crimes where no one is harmed, is not evidence of how dangerous something is.
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I respectfully disagree. Knives (and other tools and weapons) don't have to draw blood to be dangerous. Using them to exercise power over people through intimidation, threat, or fear of the effects of reckless stupidity are also harmful, not just what injures.

Otherwise, I'm with you on what you wrote.
 
I can't understand the offhanded dismissal of racism in these laws, the "Italian" switchblade and the "German" gravity knife are definitely a racist idea. I am not saying the law was entirely intended to have racist uses but the idea that making an item illegal can in some instances make a group of people lawbreakers. The police in some of these cases knew that by making a certain item against the law they could almost guarantee a case against some of the targeted group. In some cases it would be more like classist than racist ,the poorer types would be the ones carrying a stronger more capable locking
knife over the richer pen knife crowd. I don't see racism where it isn't but ignoring the "these are our enemies" cry during the war definitely had an influence however small on those knives being targeted later.
 
Knife laws are ridiculously ignorant in most states. In my state I can carry most anything I want but in the next city that is closely connected to mine one cannot carry a fixed blade of any size but folders are ok. Most cities/counties have different knife laws than the state they reside , some more restrictive and some less.
 
thebrain said:
I can't understand the offhanded dismissal of racism in these laws, the "Italian" switchblade and the "German" gravity knife are definitely a racist idea. I am not saying the law was entirely intended to have racist uses but the idea that making an item illegal can in some instances make a group of people lawbreakers. The police in some of these cases knew that by making a certain item against the law they could almost guarantee a case against some of the targeted group. In some cases it would be more like classist than racist ,the poorer types would be the ones carrying a stronger more capable locking
knife over the richer pen knife crowd. I don't see racism where it isn't but ignoring the "these are our enemies" cry during the war definitely had an influence however small on those knives being targeted later.
Click to expand...

Racist how? By associating a style with a culture? That is not racist as it's not derogatory.

There's the Austrian "cyclone" knife. Is it "racist" to call it that? They actually manufacture it and use it in certain military groups still. Swiss saber? Czech/German dussak? Hungarian fencing grip? Italian, French, and Spanish grips on swords with a ricasso?

I see absolutely zero so-called racism in banning knives that are extra attractive as fidget playthings like these two types. Arguing that banning them is somehow racist makes as little sense as in calling someone racist because they don't like rap or country music.

Since lockback, linerlock, friction, and other mechanisms are still available (as are fixed blades) then I don't see any reason that poorer people cannot still carry knives if the toy-like ones are no longer available. That's a classist argument, anyway, not racist.

As for "these are our enemies" during wartime, that's nationalist (which is not 1:1 with racist) and is to be expected, along with not importing pretty much anything from enemy countries, including pocket knives. Can't get past that.
 
ErikMB said:
Racist how? By associating a style with a culture? That is not racist as it's not derogatory.

There's the Austrian "cyclone" knife. Is it "racist" to call it that? They actually manufacture it and use it in certain military groups still. Swiss saber? Czech/German dussak? Hungarian fencing grip? Italian, French, and Spanish grips on swords with a ricasso?

I see absolutely zero so-called racism in banning knives that are extra attractive as fidget playthings like these two types. Arguing that banning them is somehow racist makes as little sense as in calling someone racist because they don't like rap or country music.

Since lockback, linerlock, friction, and other mechanisms are still available (as are fixed blades) then I don't see any reason that poorer people cannot still carry knives if the toy-like ones are no longer available. That's a classist argument, anyway, not racist.

As for "these are our enemies" during wartime, that's nationalist (which is not 1:1 with racist) and is to be expected, along with not importing pretty much anything from enemy countries, including pocket knives. Can't get past that.
Click to expand...
The Italian switchblade style was very popular with the hold on to your hat....Italians !! That were by many considered undesirable and worse they were in places like New York viewed as the main criminal element the Italian Mafia being a huge part of that. The nationalist thing was a small part of it, the mainly Irish police force in large part being racist(yes racist) against the Italians among other ethnic groups. If they could have made being Italian a crime they likely would have. The fact that the description in some of the laws clearly is describing the "S" bolstered classic "picklock" style that was very common to be carried by recent (at that time) immigrants from Italy, and not just a general switchblade like the descriptions in the laws in the Midwest for example. Your argument is clearly clouded by your belief that almost nothing is racist as is popular among people recently as a knee jerk response to feeling attacked about systemic racism being highlighted in everyday life. And by the way Australian is not a race.
 
Dude, please reread my post, try to understand it, refrain from jumping to conclusions, and reread which country uses that cyclone knife. If you are going to call yourself "thebrain" then I suggest you try using yours. :rolleyes:
 
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