the ReCon XL II

Dan Gray · May 10, 2007

From the 2nd prototype Tops knives asked me for.

http://www.topsknives.com/product_info.php?cPath=2&products_id=212
it was the alternative to my Recon XL I pictured below,

My ReCon XL I above was a bit more complicated for them to mass produce for a reasonable amount to put out to the masses they felt..

Though they will not be on the market for a while longer,
they will be seen at the up coming blade show at the Tops booth,....
I believe it will be offered in Camo also..

I'm hyped,,,

If this works out well and things go as I hoped, I plan on donating more of these to more of the troops out there..
THIS was/is the method to my madness some time ago....

I know some guys don't like mass produced stuff and some do...
mass pricing versus one of a kinds in users, EDC

I have found that some guys that use, don't want to mess up or chance losing a high priced knife.. so the alternative to that is???

I'd like to see your thoughts here on the subject..??

t1mpani · May 10, 2007

Congrats on the TOPS deal! Is this knife for sale? I don't see a price...

Andros · May 11, 2007

Dan Gray said:
From the 2nd prototype Tops knives asked me for.

http://www.topsknives.com/product_info.php?cPath=2&products_id=212
it was the alternative to my Recon XL I pictured below,

My ReCon XL I above was a bit more complicated for them to mass produce for a reasonable amount to put out to the masses they felt..

Yes, your original knife does look more complicated than the forthcoming TOPS version but, it also looks more functional too!

I know some guys don't like mass produced stuff and some do...
mass pricing versus one of a kinds in users, EDC

For a cutting implement I don't think it is a matter of mass produced Vs. one-of-a-kind as much as it is whether it can live up to the tasks at hand or not. For instance, Busse and Swamp Rat knives are not considered one-of-a-kind knives (aside from certain handmade versions), yet they can perform much better than customs costing many times what their costs are.

I have found that some guys that use, don't want to mess up or chance losing a high priced knife.. so the alternative to that is???

True, who wants to lose a high priced knife? Then again, who wants a knife that would like to perform only it just can't?

I'd like to see your thoughts here on the subject..??

From what I can tell from the TOPS site picture that you provided, their version will have a more obtuse edge than your knife's. All other things being equal a knife with a more acute blade profile (I am not referring to just the edge but, the entire blade profile) will outcut another with a more obtuse one, not only in terms of pure cutting ability but also in terms of edge retention too. Since you are the maker of the original knife (which BTW, I have to say I like a lot) I am sure you will appreciate this. From the technical standpoint I can't tell how difficult it will be for TOPS to make the blade profile more similar to your knife's but I do believe that if they don't this knife will not be that good of a cutter. Also, I am not convinced that the serrations that TOPS have put on their version will be very effective. The ones that appear on your knife though look very aggressive.
Regarding the handle, from what I can tell from the picture it appears that yours could be even used for pounding. of course, that would depend on the material used for it. I don't know if I am right or wrong here since I am only looking at the picture you have provided. However, something like this doesn't seem to be the case with the TOPS version. BTW, what are the specifications and availability of your original knife?

Dan Gray · May 13, 2007

t1mpani said:
Congrats on the TOPS deal! Is this knife for sale? I don't see a price...

which Knife?
the top Colab will be priced before 8/1 and I believe no more than $229.95 ?
the ReCon XL1 , not the one pictured that was the original I am making more and taking orders BUT my order wait list over the last few years have been getting rather long

thanks Andros
mainly you can lose a lot from someone else trying to copy your style and to do it fast . also for tops to make these reasonably priced they had to tone some of the original stuff down..
the XL 1 is a full hidden tang 3 piece aluminum handle. I think you could beat on the ends of both pretty hard.
though the XL1 you can add a hardened pommel to it..
the XL I is hollow ground where as the XL II is flat ground.

thanks guys

t1mpani · May 13, 2007

Ah gotcha--I meant the pictured one. I shoulda specified but the I see a picture in the "Knives For Sale" forum and I get target-fixated.

Andros · May 14, 2007

Dan Gray said:
thanks Andros

My pleasure

.

also for tops to make these reasonably priced they had to tone some of the original stuff down..

This is purely a business decision. What is right and what is wrong can only be proven through the test of time. There are enough people out there who are willing to spend more provided they get the features that work. In my life I have obtained a lot of knives and while I don't put everything that I own to the test, I do put some of them. When I test a knife what really counts is if it can live up to the claimed task. For instance, I once bought directly from the Buck factory a low priced fillet knife. I have used it a few times and for its intended purpose I have to say it has performed very well indeed. So, this knife does live to the claimed task. On the other hand I won't use any of my Busse's or Swamp Rat's in this kind of fashion but I will try them in the outdoors to see how they fare (BTW, all of them are fantastic knives).

Some business people think that what counts is producing a knife in a way that comes out to the market at a MSRP that will please the masses of the consumers. I don't concur with this. They should make something that satisfies the user. You may wonder "why is he saying so? Is there a difference between the consumer and the user?" Yes, there is! One may buy a knife as a safe queen and this is fine. For this buyer fit and finish, as well as, factory packaging is what counts. If they find all these factors in accordance to his / her liking, then he / she will be satisfied. This is a satisfied customer.

On the other hand the buyer who will put the knife to the test will have a personal opinion about what really counts in a knife and that is its ability to perform! If this knife performs according to its stated purpose (a fillet knife, fillets the fish at hand, a hunting knife skins the game smoothly, a camp knife provides kindling even splits woods efficiently, etc) then this person will become a LOYAL customer. Frankly, I strongly believe that companies should only care to create a LOYAL clientele and not just a satisfied one. It is this LOYAL clientele that will support the company because it believes in it.

Once I was talking to Jerry Busse and told him that what he has created should be taught as a case study in MBA curricula (being a professional marketer I know because I have been through that). The LOYAL clientele is what keeps the business going and this is what draws new customers in an existing business.

Just my $.02.

Take care

.

SIRGALANT · May 14, 2007

i`m confused is this a chat thread or a for sale thread?

Str8Edg · May 14, 2007

Why are these here if they're not for sale?

This thread belongs in the Knifemakers Gallery or something.

Dan Gray · May 14, 2007

Damn the Man said:
Why are these here if they're not for sale?

This thread belongs in the Knifemakers Gallery or something.

because I put them here

and yes they will be..
I didn't mean to get any ones panties in a knot..

Andros
I'll end this with
I liken it to buying a VW or a cattie
different strokes for different folks..

Str8Edg · May 15, 2007

Dan Gray said:
because I put them here
and yes they will be..
I didn't mean to get any ones panties in a knot..

No worries, I wear boxers. So they *will* be for sale? Then like I said, until they *ARE* this thread should be in the Knife Makers area. But, I guess since you're such a big deal around here you just go ahead and do whatever you feel like.

"Because I put them here"? Duh. The question was why would you put them in a for sale forum when they're not for sale. Well thanks so much for sharing you're amazingly awe inspiring work that isn't for sale in this for sale forum. If only we could buy one. Oh yeah, Tops will be mass producing them at a store near me. Cool. Never mind. Excuse me I've gotta rush out to Bass Outfitters and get me one quick before I spend this $75 on something else.:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Mark Williams · May 15, 2007

Dan I know you are excited about the colab. Heck I'm excited for you

But.... If you are selling the ones that You are making, please put a price on them and sell away.

That is why I moved your thread to the gallery.

Dan Gray · May 15, 2007

Damn the Man said:
No worries, I wear boxers. So they *will* be for sale? Then like I said, until they *ARE* this thread should be in the Knife Makers area. But, I guess since you're such a big deal around here you just go ahead and do whatever you feel like.

"Because I put them here"? Duh. The question was why would you put them in a for sale forum when they're not for sale. Well thanks so much for sharing you're amazingly awe inspiring work that isn't for sale in this for sale forum. If only we could buy one. Oh yeah, Tops will be mass producing them at a store near me. Cool. Never mind. Excuse me I've gotta rush out to Bass Outfitters and get me one quick before I spend this $75 on something else.:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

I guess since you're such a big deal around here you just go ahead and do whatever you feel like.

I'm not sure just why you think I'm any better than anyone else here ...

because I'm not, just so you know that from me ,
maybe it's just that
I've just been here longer than you have and push buttons better then you ??. or feel more at home here than you do??
but I won't degrade you for speaking your piece..
I'm a sort of a bozo at times and if you can't take things as I mean them then I'm sorry you feel that way .
thank you for your Opinons though

Mark Williams said:
Dan I know you are excited about the colab. Heck I'm excited for you

But.... If you are selling the ones that You are making, please put a price on them and sell away.

That is why I moved your thread to the gallery.

thanks Mark
sorry,, I'm just to use to Shop talk I guess.. this realy shouldn't have been a big deal, but I guess it is to some

I should have waited for tops to get the price on them I guess,

Tanguay Custom Knives · May 16, 2007

I got to see and hold Dan's original model when I visited his shop a few years ago. That was one incredible knife. Congratulations Dan!
Scott

Dan Gray · May 16, 2007

Tanguay Custom Knives said:
I got to see and hold Dan's original model when I visited his shop a few years ago. That was one incredible knife. Congratulations Dan!
Scott

thanks Scott

Dan Gray · May 16, 2007

Danm the man ,
I want you to know, what you said to me so sarcastically did bother me somewhat, I'm sure you liked that, I normaly care a lot about what's thought of me..
but now since looking at some of your posts it doesn't matter to me now any more than it does you.
You seem to have no boundaries to what you will say and you hide behind a handle with no profile. but when Kevin called you on your attitude,
things change with you

Why?
is it because, he knows who you are..
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=473002&page=4 post 73
my word to the wise would be learn to be social or at least act older than 15
and get a name instead of an attitude for a handle.
. JMHO

Jim Rehrer · May 16, 2007

Dan- those look great...love the coloring...is that a spray on? how did you color your sheaths like that too?
Great work and congrats on your deal!

biogon · May 16, 2007

I have handmades and true one-off customs as part of my collection.

I have mass-produced knives (and collabs belong here) as my users.

Your collab with TOPS looks mighty fine. Congratulations!

-j

Andros · May 16, 2007

I really dont understand what is the need for the comments made by both SIRGALANT and Damn The Man. Are they supposed to be a service to the Bladeforums community? I dont think so. Dan Gray made a mistake to post in the Knife Makers For Sale Area something that was not for sale. That is true. I just dont understand why SIRGALANT and Damn The Man needed to point that out IN THE OPEN! This is something that a moderator is supposed to do and neither SIRGALANT nor Damn The Man are one. However, even in case where a moderator decides to administer infraction points, it will be done in private.

Do you people really want to point out that someone made a mistake? Point that out in private, not in public. Did any of you send Dan Gray either an e-mail or a private message to indicate his mistake? Did you post your posts after he scorned your notifications? If you had done this mistake, how would you feel if other members of the Bladeforums have come out in the open and say, HEY, WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS A MISTAKE!? Would you like that? Is this the spirit of a community? In a community, the members help one another; they dont try to put down one another. Lets leave the moderators do their job, which I believe they are doing the best the can to do it the best way they can, and stop indicating if a thread belongs to where it has been posted or not. You know the adage: put up or shut up!

Dan Gray · May 18, 2007

thanks Guys
thanks Biogon

Jim
that is Gun coat air brushed on and then heated to fix it on..
the sheath is leather dyed for that efect,

Andros thanks for the post. yes I did make a mistake posting this where I did
but I guess being here since 2002 makes me intimidating haha I don't really think that the case

or not able to make such mistakes and joking about it some or something?? if you can't have some fun with your own screw ups then you'll have some unnecessary stress problems. if I get out of line I know Ole Mark will fix it

I don't take things to seriously from anyone that doesn't post his real name and has nothing in a profile..
how can anyone take anyone seriously like that.. to me, if one person gets to know the other and their little nuances, I have big ones

all will come out right in the end. if someone hides behind a factious name and gives no personal info then I wonder, what's he hiding or why?
no, I don't take that anymore serious than I would a spammer..and I'd hope no one else would either..
he tried that with spark (Kevin the owner here) and he backed down because he knows Kevin knows who he is.. imagine that..
I'd like to get to know any of you guys, but this is hard if guys don't give up real names and profiles..
enough said about that on my part..

I have my ideas about mass produced knives too and also believe there is and should be a knife for anybody out there, be it a $5.00 knife or a $25,000.00 Knife.
some guys can't afford a higher priced knife some can and some guys don't care as long as he has a knife to USE the crap out of , you know like grounding across that starter to get the car started

thanks guys..and have fun..

Barkes Knife Shop · May 18, 2007

Outstanding Work Dan: Great job and looks nice as well. --------:thumbup:

the ReCon XL II

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