The Reptilians- CrissX Kumar Kobra and 18th Century khuk

[JayGoliath]

Upon scoring my grail khuk from Svashtar I thought the 18th Century would dot it.
It wasn’t until 2 weeks ago Ted Palmer stopped that hiatus with a very obscure khuk I saw from Sta94- the Kumar Kobra that was made from a file with a reversed Malla cho and a single peening instead of 3.

Probably the liveliest khuk in my stash which I reckon at 15Oz or less for 18+” OAL.
Let the King out of the sheath!

My wild guess is that why Kumar decided to call this a Kobra eventually?

The detailing is superb that both Karda and Chakmak are made from the similar file as well!

The Slithering Brothers:

I can't say i will stop but it's safe to say i'm content for now.

 

[Steve Tall]

Great post, Jay. Those are quite a pair. :thumbup:

 

[GoodStuff]

does look like a snake.
So if the Kumar is a Cobra.
What is the 18th Century? An Anaconda?

 

[bargs]

i love them kukri with that cross hatch paturn ,or file paturn,cool.

 

[Karda]

That is pretty cool. I knew you had the 18th century, but didnt know you had gotten sta94's file kobra.
All things end up where they truly belong, i suppose. :thumbup:

 

[Steely_Gunz]

I'm not a knife fighter by any means, but a light 18" Kobra is a mean blade to mess with. Fast, hits like a ton of bricks, and certainly lethal. Kumar aptly named the knife for sure

 

[davidf99]

Jay:

Congratulations on that Kumar Kobra. I almost had it from Ted, but I was indecisive. Then when I saw you were interested my own interest picked up, but alas, too late.

One question I've wondered about is whether the kind of steel used in files is good for knives? I imagine it is a very hard steel, maybe not the best for wood chopping, but since a Kobra is more of a fighting knife that wouldn't matter.

Any thoughts on that question?

-- Dave

 

[Karda]

Jay:

Congratulations on that Kumar Kobra. I almost had it from Ted, but I was indecisive. Then when I saw you were interested my own interest picked up, but alas, too late.

One question I've wondered about is whether the kind of steel used in files is good for knives? I imagine it is a very hard steel, maybe not the best for wood chopping, but since a Kobra is more of a fighting knife that wouldn't matter.

Any thoughts on that question?

-- Dave

It depends on the file used. Some are crap and some are quite good for knifemaking. Do a search for Member Sylvrflcn. Ol' Sarge could make one heckuva knife from a file. Yes a file is too hard for being a knife as is. Some people completely anneal them first. Sarge had a way of making them utilising the heat treat they were originally given.

 

[davidf99]

It depends on the file used. Some are crap and some are quite good for knifemaking. Do a search for Member Sylvrflcn. Ol' Sarge could make one heckuva knife from a file. Yes a file is too hard for being a knife as is. Some people completely anneal them first. Sarge had a way of making them utilising the heat treat they were originally given.

My search on Sylvrflcn (and other variants of the spelling) didn't turn up much. However, it makes sense that one would anneal the file, if only to get the bend in the blade before rehardening the edge.

I can only speculate about how to use the original heat treat. A file might only be hardened on the cross-hatched surfaces, not necessarily in the body of the steel. If you start with a big file that has one of its edge smooth, maybe you could use that as the "spine" and heat everything except the opposite edge to get the bend. I imagine you'd have to work very carefully to make the bend without cracking the hardened edge.

But that's just guesswork, as my forte is wood, not metal. Maybe someone who really knows could pitch in?

-- Dave

 

[bemo]

Michael Morris is a knife maker that uses nothing but old files. He anneals them first to take the hardness down to about 58 HRC an then does his grinding. To anneal them runs them through a digitally controlled oven at 400 degrees for two hours and lets them cool down to room temperature. He does that cycle twice. In many ways, it's the opposite of using untempered steel, where you do all the grinding first and then temper and perhaps anneal it. I'd be very interested to know how Silverfalcon managed to grind a knife from a file at it's original hardness.

 

[Karda]

Michael Morris is a knife maker that uses nothing but old files. He anneals them first to take the hardness down to about 58 HRC an then does his grinding. To anneal them runs them through a digitally controlled oven at 400 degrees for two hours and lets them cool down to room temperature. He does that cycle twice. In many ways, it's the opposite of using untempered steel, where you do all the grinding first and then temper and perhaps anneal it. I'd be very interested to know how Silverfalcon managed to grind a knife from a file at it's original hardness.

By taking his time and keeping the blade cool.

 

[Steve Tall]

Elaboration on what Karda said:

...my boringly predictable response to most knife problems is big old file and a grinder. Throwing knives are a dead cinch. Start with a 12-14" mill bastard file. Cut off the tang and round off that end. Now put a point on the other end, bowie shape or dagger shape, either will stick good. Round off all edges along the handle/blade until they're nice and smooth. If you like, you can grind the suggestion of an edge to the blade, but I'd recommend not bringing it all the way to sharp on a dedicated thrower. Any further grinding is up to you, you can grind off all the file teeth, but the improvement is only a cosmetic one. You can also do some shaping to the handle if you like, I generally keep mine parallel sided and slightly tapering toward the butt for a smoother release (NMLRA rules require that knives be thrown by their handles).
Now comes the critical component of this here venture, tempering. Put it in an oven, and gradually and incrementally increase the heat until your oxidation color change yields a light purple color. If you left the file teeth on, the place to check for color change is the edges you've ground off smooth, they should be shiny and clean going into the oven. When you get a light purple, turn off the heat and leave the thing alone to cool as slowly as possible. What you'll wind up with is a knife of high carbon spring steel, tough enough to stand up to throwing impacts, but still retaining enough hardness to keep a sharp point, and a pretty decent edge if you're thinking of making the knife pull double duty.
...

Negative, unless you have the means and know how to reharden and temper later (requires a forge large enough to accomadate a big blade, and a quench tank filled with old motor oil, etc.) DO NOT ANNEAL THE FILE. In fact, you should take pains to avoid overheating/burning the temper while grinding by dipping often in a bucket of water. Don't worry about it being full hard, a grinding wheel won't cut it as fast, but it will definitely cut it. Starting with a "brittle hard" blade, you can then use controlled heat (oven) to temper it down to wherever you want it. But, if you anneal that blade, you absolutely cannot reharden it unless you have access to a forge...

 

[Svashtar]

All I know is the sharpest knife I own by far is a handmade hunting knife from Greg (Sarge). He ground it from a file and gave it an antler handle. The second sharpest is a Puuko from him, and the third sharpest is maybe a Zero Tolerance 302 using S30V, which is sharp enough out of the box to shave with. His knives were scary sharp, and he made a bunch of great ones for the Ram raffles Steve Ferguson used to organize. I am so fortunate to have 3 of them, including a beautiful ballock dagger.

Norm

 

[bemo]

Great info! Thanks