The sport of hunting is declining

[dd61999]

How involved and long was the average hunting course in the 1930's and 1960's?

Everyone says bring a kid, But youth hunting is fairly restricted in NY?

Is 2-3 days of safety course more effective than just a few hours?

People are busier with both parents working, makes dedicating several full weekends to take courses just to hunt waterfowl and bowhunting is just not feasible for friends of mine who may want to try it.

Plus the courses are not easily available, they fill up quick, and the next course is not till feb.

I understand the importance of learning safety and conservatism. All I am saying is this is the major obstacle I come across when I invite people to hunt.

 

[dd61999]

Edit above post,

I just checked the available Hunters education class schedule for NY and there are no classes available in my area at all for the next 6 months. How do we bring people into the sport when classes are not available.

 

[hlee]

Classes are not required unless they are ACTUALLY HUNTING. Nonhunting companions are not required to take the course. You bring kids and other non hunters into the sport the same way that we (well, maybe not YOU) got into the sport. Tag-alongs and bird-shaggers. Give them a bird vest and a camo cap and 99% of kids will be living it up. Send him/her out for the pheasant instead of the dog. Go turkey hunting and give the kid a call to work. Same with duck or goose hunting. Aspiring hunters need to learn what hunting is about before being handed a gun. Hunting is not about killing, and it's not really about putting meat on the table. If it were, I'm sure you could find a farmer that would let you buy and then shoot a cow- and there are mobile services that will butcher it for you. Killing is necessary for the successful hunter, and the meat is a very welcome bonus. But, the worst day hunting is better than the best day at work.

Hunter education classes are good for life, and are honored in all US states, all of Canada, and all of Mexico.

New York State isn't that big. What do you consider your area? I have a Hunter Safety cert from Texas, a Bow Hunter Cert from Connecticut, and I live in California.

I didn't find getting a license in New York to be that big of a pain. One year I bought one at a Walmart in White Plains, the next year I bought one at Gander Mountain in Middletown. Even though the guy in Whiteplains didn't really know what he was doing, it was relatively painless. Gander mountain only took a few minutes. The only place to get a license in CT is at the state DGF office in Hartford. That was much more painful...

Getting a license is easier than pretty much ever. All of the information is on line, and many states allow hunters to apply for and purchase licenses and permits on line.

From the New York Hunter Education website...

All Counties Not Listed Below Hunter Ed Please check surrounding counties or Regional DEC offices for the latest information. Most courses are held to meet demands before the May and October hunting seasons start.

The sport of hunting is on the decline because as a population americans are becoming increasingly urbanized, fat, and lazy- not because it is too hard to get a license.

 

[Planetcat]

I just don't see how someone has time to go hunting, buy equipment, practice shooting, scout for game, etc., but doesn't have 2 days to attend a hunter safety course. Ok, maybe it's a situation of what's fun to do=important, what's not fun=not important? And those courses are usually interesting and entertaining. It's not like sitting through 2 days of driver's ed for a speeding ticket.

 

[dipbait]

I just got back from hunting at my brothers place. I found his dog, shot dead. She was a good old dog ,very gentle . Its action like this that make people leery of allowing hunting.

 

[mtwarden]

^ truly sorry to hear about that

 

[hlee]

"Good ol' dogs" are very hard to distinguish from livestock/wildlife harassing dogs, strays, and feral dogs- especially when not wearing a collar. I'd be very sad if my dog was shot, but I have the sense keep a collar on her, and make sure I know she is secure at all times. Where my dad lives, dogs that stray from their owners' property risk not returning- regardless of any open hunting season.

And, hunters generally don't really like dogs harassing the game either...

Edit, just reread that it was HIS dog on HIS property. In Texas (where I am from, and where my family still lives), straying onto someone else's property is TRESPASSING/POACHING. Given that, the above does not apply to the presented situation.

You will hear 100 times more accounts of bad acts by hunters than good. People remember the remarkable, and tell their friends. When a hunter does what he/she should, it is unremarkable (it is what is expected, after all). It is the poachers, trespassers, "indiscriminate wasters of game," followers of "if its brown, its down," and the "I heard a rustle in the bush, so I unloaded on it" hunters (although in the vast majority) that give the rest of us a bad name. Given that and our increasingly litigious society, it is no wonder that property owners are increasingly selective in the people that they allow on their property.

It is a fact that hunters are declining, and our image has been tarnished by the bad acts of some of our ranks. Take a kid hunting. Take a friend hunting. Take an aunt, nephew, brother-in-law, cousin, etc hunting. Show them the deep respect for nature. Explain that it is through the efforts (sport hunters shepherded most of the modern game laws, like outlawing commercial hunting and developing season and bag limits), and wallets (Pittman-Robertson Act) of hunters that we have the game that we do. Only through education can we keep our sport alive.

What has PETA done for you lately?

 

[dipbait]

The dog was on my brothers property, way out in the boonies. There was no excuse to shoot it , except for target practice. Whoever shot the dog was tresspassing.

 

[hlee]

Dipbait, I was in the middle of an edit when you posted. I missed the "on his property." Sorry about the dog.:foot:

 

[postfallsidaho]

Sorry to hear about the dog dipbait, that is very unfortunate for alot of people. It ruins it for most.

How involved and long was the average hunting course in the 1930's and 1960's?

Is 2-3 days of safety course more effective than just a few hours?

Yes, I will guarantee it. There were tons less hunters decades ago, and higher numbers of accidents and fatalities (per capita).

Heres a few articles I googled up quick:
SPORTS
Pennsylvania's 1995 Hunting Accidents Continue At Low Rate 3 Self-inflicted Fatalities Were Among 97 Accidental Shootings Investigated.
by TOM FEGELY, The Morning Call | February 20, 1996
Gun-related accidents among Pennsylvania's 1.1 million hunters continue at a low rate, according to figures released last week by the Pennsylvania Game Commission. Last year, 97 accidental shootings -- 18 of which were self-inflicted -- were investigated by the agency. That's 257 fewer than occurred two decades ago. Measured in terms of accidents per 100,000 hunters, the statistics from 1975 were nearly four times that of 1995. "In most cases the record of Pennsylvania hunters is very good and continues to improve," said Jim Filkosky, the commission's Hunter-Trapper Education Division chief.
SPORTS
'94 Hunting Accidents Higher Than Previous Year But Below Average
by TOM FEGELY, The Morning Call | April 11, 1995
Hunting accidents jumped in 1994, the first time in recent years that numbers of accidental shootings haven't gone down, according to a report recently released by the Pennsylvania Game Commission. Last year, 103 persons were reported shot in hunting accidents, up from 85 in 1993, three higher than in the 1992 seasons and 33 less than in 1991. The accident rate averages 117 victims over the last decade. During the 1970s, the annual rate was 319, and in the 1960s, 476. The 1994 accident rate per 100,000 hunters was 9.26, up from 7.37 in 1993.
SPORTS
1993 Was Safest Hunting Year In Pa. Since 1915
by TOM FEGELY, The Morning Call | March 15, 1994
L ast year has gone down in Pennsylvania hunting history as "the safest year of hunting activity since 1915," according to a recent study by the Pennsylvania Game Commission. The year accounted for 85 accidents (including four fatalities), still more than the 67 accidents recorded in 1918. However, in 1993, 1,145,000 hunters were afield as compared to only 310,000 in 1918. The latter calculates to an accident rate of more than 21 per 100,000 hunters. The 1993 rate stands at 7.37 accidents for the same number of hunters.


Heres an article from WI this year:

News: State of Wisconsin
2nd time in state history no one killed during gun deer hunting
DNR officials attribute safer season to hunters trained in 4 fundamentals of shooting .By Sean Kirkby
Tuesday, November 30, 2010 7:22 p.m.
Updated Wednesday, December 1, 2010 2:04:35 a.m.


For only the second time in Wisconsin state history, no one was killed during gun deer season except for deer.

Wisconsin typically has lower fatality rates than other states during the deer hunting season, said Bob Manwell, a DNR spokesperson.

Over the past 10 years, the state has averaged 1.9 shooting deaths per year, while nationally the number is three per year, Manwell said.

Manwell added a lot of credit goes to the thousands who volunteer to teach public gun safety courses.
Credit also goes to the hunter safety course the DNR has required hunters born after 1973 to take, which has educated more than one million people in the past few decades, Manwell said.The courses have a strong safety component, and the drop in the number of fatalities has been a result of the cumulative effect of these courses, Manwell said.
“It’s premature to say that we are never going to have any casualties ever again,” Manwell said. “But overall it’s been a very good year.”

Hunting accidents typically happen with hunters over the age of 35 who are not required by law to take the hunting education courses, Tim Lawhern, a DNR hunter education administrator and conservation warden, said in a statement.

Ultimately, nearly all hunting accidents are linked to a violation of one or more of the four basic rules of firearm safety, Lawhern said.

Hunters should treat every firearm as if it is loaded, never point their firearms at another person, never put their finger in the trigger until they are ready to shoot and know what is behind their target, Lawhern said.

Besides taking the hunting safety courses and learning the four basic rules of firearm safety, hunters are also required to wear blaze orange clothing, said Tom Heberlein, a hunting expert and professor at the University of Wisconsin.

The number of injuries in Wisconsin has also dropped significantly over the years. The year before hunter education began in Wisconsin, Lawhern said, the accident rate was 44 injuries for every 100,000 hunters.

Now, only 12 injuries were reported by over 600,000 hunters, Lawhern said. “However, any shooting incident is one too many,” Lawhern said

People are busier with both parents working...

just not feasible for friends of mine who may want to try it...

Plus the courses are not easily available...

they fill up quick, and the next course is not till feb...

All I am saying is this is the major obstacle I come across when I invite people to hunt...

Edit above post,

I just checked the available Hunters education class schedule for NY and there are no classes available in my area at all for the next 6 months. How do we bring people into the sport when classes are not available.

Your friends need to plan ahead then if they want to hunt. Hunters safety is a good thing. Have them take the course in the next 6 months, and they will be good to go for next fall. Maybe its just me, but I wouldn't want to be in the woods with someone who feels "they don't need or don't have time for safety" There's always time for safety!

It is sounding more like a crutch or an excuse not to go to me... Not a problem or a reason for decline...

 

[338375]

I read an article awhile back, that in Oregon, IIRC in 2008, it was the lowest number for tags sold since the early 60's...

I don't think it has anything to do with the classes. I think it has more to do with the fact that many families despise hunting and guns. So the kids don't get a chance.

I started my son out with gun safety when he was about 6 years old. He knows how to handle, and take care of a gun, better than some adults I know.

He always goes camping and hunting with us, and he couldn't wait for his first year of hunting. He is 13 and last year was his first year, and he hunts with a bow.

In Oregon, there is plenty of public land to hunt on, so lack of area is not an issue.

Hopefully he will be able to pass down the tradition to his kids

 

[DennisStrickland]

dipbait i may not like turtles but i love dogs. i actually had to do some jail time & be on probation for righting a dogs wrongful death. in the anger mgmt. class i told the idiot psychotherpist i'd do it again . on rural properties all you can do is check for parked vehicles near your land --write liscence numbers down. some of these same type people kill livestock also. dennis

 

[steeljhp]

Excuses,excuses. If you want to get out in the woods you got to get off your butts and go! Seriously though , I love to hunt pretty much everything(going duck huntin in the morning) my daughter has had a duck call and a turkey call since she was 3 and my wife who has refused to go hunting with me in the past ,has this year, stated that she wants to go turkey hunting with me this spring.My point? I dont know if I made one. Get yourselves and those kids out from in front of that T.V. or computer and get outdoors!

 

[dipbait]

dipbait i may not like turtles but i love dogs. i actually had to do some jail time & be on probation for righting a dogs wrongful death. in the anger mgmt. class i told the idiot psychotherpist i'd do it again . on rural properties all you can do is check for parked vehicles near your land --write liscence numbers down. some of these same type people kill livestock also. dennis

We keep the turtle locked up during hunting season.

 

[kycolonel]

I just got back from hunting at my brothers place. I found his dog, shot dead. She was a good old dog ,very gentle . Its action like this that make people leery of allowing hunting.

This is enough to piss off the Pope. I would be tempted to scout that area for where the shooter was standing and lay in wait for the s.o.b. on opening day 2011. And people wonder why landowners won't let strangers hunt their property anymore.

 

[trukreltrog]

This is enough to piss off the Pope. I would be tempted to scout that area for where the shooter was standing and lay in wait for the s.o.b. on opening day 2011. And people wonder why landowners won't let strangers hunt their property anymore.

Yup, this is a big part of it. Too many people just don't respect other peoples property. I know more than a few ranches that refuse to let people shoot their sage rats. Because they had slob shooters shooting holes in their water systems and equipment. Just sad,,,

 

[JParanee]

I just got back from hunting at my brothers place. I found his dog, shot dead. She was a good old dog ,very gentle . Its action like this that make people leery of allowing hunting.

I would find that M F and carve my dogs name in his forehead if you cant tell a dog from a hog or a deer ya should not be in the woods and anyone that would shoot a dog deserves to fall out of there tree a get paralized

sorry to hear a bout the dog

 

[338375]

Yup, this is a big part of it. Too many people just don't respect other peoples property. I know more than a few ranches that refuse to let people shoot their sage rats. Because they had slob shooters shooting holes in their water systems and equipment. Just sad,,,

Yep... There is a big ranch not far from where I live, that has premium rat shooting areas, and good deer hunting. A few years back, they leased out most of hunting rights on their property to a Guide. That was the reason for them doing that. They said they got tired of having holes shot in their pivots, and trash left laying around.

We still stop at the main house and talk to them, and they will still let us shoot in a small area. Its not a huge area, but its all Alfalfa, and the rats are usually thick.

Thats really sad, and irritating that someone shot the dog that was posted in this thread. Some people just don't care what it is they shoot, they just want to kill something.
I won't tell you what I think should be done to people that are caught doing that...

 

[cramsey3006]

I agree, it is getting nearly impossible to find any land to hunt on. People simply do not want you on their property. They will lease rights to a controlled few they trust and that is it. I have seen all the bad things you touched on and more, trash dumped, things broken and shot to pieces, fences wrecked, vehicle ruts everywhere, etc. I am fortunate enough right now to be on ten acres of land that I can small game hunt on. Otherwise, it's a minimum of 36 miles to drive to get to Bankhead Forest. Too costly for us in the "lower class" of income who can barely afford ammunition to hunt with much less several gallons of gas to get there and most assuredly cannot and never will be able to afford to enter any hunting clubs to get access to other properties. I used to have access to literally thousands of acres of land that belonged to tree timber companies. When the property tax laws changed here in Alabama, these companies dropped selling cheap permits to individuals. Most of them immediately clear cut their lands and sold off to developers. What's left is leased to hunting clubs who can pay a chunck of bucks and provide liability insurance to their restricted memberages.

Hence, nowhere to go, no licenses selling. Plus, the younger generation is all caught up in Facebook, Myspace, text messaging, cell phones, computers, etc, and interest in the outdoors in general is waning.

Finding land is my problem. I love to hunt, and the kids love to go with me, but finding places that I'm comfortable taking them is very difficult, really, finding ANY place is difficult now.

One of my biggest issues is finding a place that isn't OVER hunted, for lack of a better term. I have had many people in the past tell me that I'm the only person hunting on their land, only to run into others or hear gun shots that are too close for comfort when I don't know where they are aiming. Talking to the landowner, it's always "I forgot..... I didn't think about so and so.... Oh I told them last year it was ok..." etc.

Maybe it's just me being anal, but I want to know when/if there are other people on the land I'm hunting and where they are going to be. Who knows if they are shooting toward me, or if I'm shooting toward them? Especially if I have my kids with me.

I do have a couple of places that I'm welcome to hunt any time. Again, the problem is that they are family areas and you never know who or how many will be there. My wife's uncle has a 900 acre farm in eastern ky. Lots of prime hunting. 900 acres gets eaten up really fast when 25 guys show up at the same time. Again, sorry, I don't like not knowing where people are and if they are going to be shooting my way. Also, it's 200 miles round trip. I can usually only get a day here, a day there, to hunt. If I could go a couple of days at a time, that's fine. On a day by day basis, well....

I had another farm that I used to hunt, not big, around 70 acres. Close too, 40 miles round trip. Three of us gave the landowner $300 each, per year, to have access to the farm. All we really did was deer hunt and turkey hunt, maybe a total of 4 weeks a year. Last time we went to pay (a few years ago) he told us that a group of guys gave him $1000 each for access that year. I'm not going to compete with that. What pissed me off is that he didn't even bother to call us and let us know. We found out the month before deer season opened, the time that we usually paid him.

The other problem is time itself. The gun season in KY is during the Thanksgiving holiday time, and when you have a few different places to go over that two weeks, and my work is really busy at that time, the kids have a ton of stuff going on... The late fall and winter months just aren't that kind to me, timewise.

Heck, 3 boys playing every sport, one on the academic team (so far), and the other stuff in life that eats up time... it's a miracle that we can get out and do the outdoors stuff that we try to do.

Camping, fishing, hiking, are all things that there are no seasonal restrictions on, for the most part, so that's what we do when the time is available.

 

[Blue Sky]

A lot of good reasons have already been mentioned. One other I believe is the emphasis these days on big game hunting.

No matter what the problem, young people are the future of the sport and the best way to get them interested and keep them that way is to provide some action. Kicking brush for bunnies, driving for birds, keep'em moving, no stealth necessary. Surprise flushes and fast shooting = fun. Shared experiences help too, and now they can sit with the old crew and have their own stories to tell. Makes them part of the crew, you know? How many kids are going to appreciate sitting quiet and still in a stand or blind for hours in the cold, maybe without seeing anything?

They can learn how to sit still in the squirrel woods, and they'll have better chances too. Squirrels are also lot more forgiving of errors. Appreciation of the woods, solitude and patience will come naturally as they mature and gain woods experience.

My .02, YMMV.