The Steel of the Future: AerMet 100 Steel > Infi Steel

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Never mind what I "think". Send me a chunk of this stuff and I'll grind it into a knife, and grind another knife to the same dimensions out of CPM-3V. I'll have them both heat-treated at my expense to Rockwell 58 or 60 or 62 (your choice) on the C scale. We'll pass them around have them beaten and tested for toughness, hardness, and edge-holding, in anything resembling what handheld knives are used for. Including chopping 2x4's and slicing tomatoes.

If my 3V blade loses in any way, I'll pay for the test steel and personally cook and serve you lunch in my home. If my 3V blade wins in every category, you owe me a coupon for a Happy Meal at McDonalds or a dollar-menu item at Wendy's or Taco Bell... Fair enough?
 
Age hardening (maraging)steels, and superalloys (nickel-tungsten/chromium) are not a new thing.
But for some reasons they have never been used in industrial blade applications.
They have astonishing fatigue cracking resistance - tens of hundred times better than tool steel.
They are great for shafts, landing gears and so on.

But not for blades really. If you want more and more toughness (charpy V and other), just take 4340 and harden it to designed toughness.
DONE.

And one more thing - who have seen a broken busse recently?
Is the toughness REALLY the aspect than can be improved?
 
UffDa said:
Cliff Stamp is not a very popular character here, but at least he has some credentials. He is a professor of physics at Canadian university. What credentials does our new metallurgy expert have? :rolleyes:
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Well I guess i'll take this train off on a side rail and ask why is Cliff Stamp so reviled here?Just curious.
 
Robert Ptacek said:
Well I guess i'll take this train off on a side rail and ask why is Cliff Stamp so reviled here?Just curious.
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I too am curious about this. Furthermore, I feel that's it should be ok for someone to challenge (or bring different views) on Busse & kin. No product is perfect. The group here can answer most challenges. Trolls should be tossed out, of course;)

Just my 2 cents.
 
Noxious Fumes said:
I too am curious about this. Furthermore, I feel that's it should be ok for someone to challenge (or bring different views) on Busse & kin. No product is perfect. The group here can answer most challenges. Trolls should be tossed out, of course;)

Just my 2 cents.
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I tried to search for why he got banned, I'm sure it was justified but i am curious too.

Anyone wishing to pm this info to me can. Thanks for your time hogs
 
james terrio said:
Never mind what I "think". Send me a chunk of this stuff and I'll grind it into a knife, and grind another knife to the same dimensions out of CPM-3V. I'll have them both heat-treated at my expense to Rockwell 58 or 60 or 62 (your choice) on the C scale. We'll pass them around have them beaten and tested for toughness, hardness, and edge-holding, in anything resembling what handheld knives are used for. Including chopping 2x4's and slicing tomatoes.

If my 3V blade loses in any way, I'll pay for the test steel and personally cook and serve you lunch in my home. If my 3V blade wins in every category, you owe me a coupon for a Happy Meal at McDonalds or a dollar-menu item at Wendy's or Taco Bell... Fair enough?
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If be more than happy to put em to the test in the backweeds of NEPA. Send like the OP is good at Google, just not good enough. :rolleyes:

Robert Ptacek said:
Well I guess i'll take this train off on a side rail and ask why is Cliff Stamp so reviled here?Just curious.
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It would take another thread and honestly it couldn't be summarized other than to say he tested steels and thought he was God. Do a search on him and read the last 6 months of his postings and arguments. Remember researching is half the fun and when you're done search cliff stump for some more laughs. :)
 
Ok, first off, INFI > Aermet whatever

Reasons why:

1. Aermet as not proven anything in the knife world and and what a bolt does in a rifle is not the same in the knife world.

2. Aermet is not as tough as S7 from the above. INFI is actually tougher than S7 but It is possibly not as flexible, but it is tougher at the same Rc.

3. Aermet doesn't have enough carbon to get to a hardness high enough to provide edge strength. 53-54? I wonder hat the toughness drops to at that Rc.

In the end, it may be a steel that with some tweaking may work, but there is no proof of anything and honestly your title bothered me, because there is no proof that Aermet is as good for knife use as even steels like L6, S7 or 3V.

Show me where you got your proof that this steel is tougher than INFI, 3V, L6 and S7?

I looked it up. Aermet 100 has a toughness of 100ksi. And no mention of what Rc, but I bet it is lower than suitable for a knife. S7 has a toughness of 125ksi at 57 Rc. So where have you shown anything saying that it is tougher than S7? Also the transverse toughness argument has been debunked long ago.

Stronger than INFI? Where did you see the comparison, please post it.

Better yet. Get a knife made of this tough and send it to Cliff for testing of edge retention and durability. If it can hold up to his edge test, then we can send it to Noss for final destruction. I bet it doesn't hold to all these tests as well as 3V, S7, MA8 and certainly not INFI.

Honestly, your entire post sounds like a commercial.
 
YOWZA!!!

Last Confederate,

There are better ways of promoting your latest discovery. Perhaps you should have a knifemaker construct a knife out of your dream steel and then you could test it for yourself and have actual data to support your claims! Crazy right?

Coming on our forum and claiming superiority over INFI is simply laughable.

The fact that you have NEVER posted before really points to you being a troll or someone wanting hide your true identity. Just like a super hero . . . Only completely different!

Your claims are spectacular as I'm sure are the knives made from whatever it is that you are promoting.

Please contact me directly at (419) 923-6471. Or, you can post your real name and contact info here and I'll call you. If this is too scary for you to do, then please refrain from posting again on our forum.

Here's some more interesting Busse history.....

On my path to INFI, I tested and used a maraging steel in 1986-1988 called Vasco Max C350. It was Hardened at 59-60 Rc simply by baking it at 950 for about 6 hours.

I sold 1 knife made out of it to a doctor from Mount Kisco, NY.

I NEVER sold another. There's a reason for that. It could not hold a candle to A2 tool steel in performance, other than corrosion resistance. The primary problem was strength along the edge. It collapsed under heavy impacts. Resharpening in the field was a bit of a nightmare as well. Removing the feather was nearly impossible in the shop with a buffer. I can't imagine how you would attempt this in the field.

I know that reading the analysis of a steel and all of the test data, like wear resistance and charpy impact tests can be very exciting.

I can also assure you that you can read all you want, but until you "Make it, Bake it, and Break it" (Busse credo) you really don't know squat about how it will perform as a knife.

Let's Drink!!!:thumbup:

Jerry:D






 
You heard it from the man himself, step up or shut up. MAKE IT, BAKE IT AND BREAK IT :thumbup:
 
Thanks Jerry. Always a class act. Hopefully I can get the blade on the shoulder bit done some day, thank you in person for all you've done for me, and buy you some drinks. You continue to amaze me, and the world of cutlery.
 
james terrio said:
Never mind what I "think". Send me a chunk of this stuff and I'll grind it into a knife, and grind another knife to the same dimensions out of CPM-3V. I'll have them both heat-treated at my expense to Rockwell 58 or 60 or 62 (your choice) on the C scale. We'll pass them around have them beaten and tested for toughness, hardness, and edge-holding, in anything resembling what handheld knives are used for. Including chopping 2x4's and slicing tomatoes.

If my 3V blade loses in any way, I'll pay for the test steel and personally cook and serve you lunch in my home. If my 3V blade wins in every category, you owe me a coupon for a Happy Meal at McDonalds or a dollar-menu item at Wendy's or Taco Bell... Fair enough?
Click to expand...

In the name of science, I'd be happy to buy you some steel to work and experiment with. I'll call up Carpenter and see what it'll cost per a sample, I had read that AerMet 100 can be purchased in very small lots, not sure about AerMet 340, I'll find out on Monday.

From Carpenter's website.

Forging

Primary breakdown forging of AerMet 340 alloy should be done at a maximum starting temperature of 2250°F (1232°C). Finish forging should be done from 1800°F (982°C) with a finishing temperature below 1650°F (899°C) in order to optimize the final heat treated properties. Following forging, the parts should be air cooled to room temperature and then annealed. Following the anneal, the forgings should be normalized in order to restore properties to the dead zone.
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Is this something that your level of expertise can handle if I bought and sent you some?
 
Jerry Busse said:
YOWZA!!!

Last Confederate,

There are better ways of promoting your latest discovery. Perhaps you should have a knifemaker construct a knife out of your dream steel and then you could test it for yourself and have actual data to support your claims! Crazy right?

Coming on our forum and claiming superiority over INFI is simply laughable.

The fact that you have NEVER posted before really points to you being a troll or someone wanting hide your true identity. Just like a super hero . . . Only completely different!

Your claims are spectacular as I'm sure are the knives made from whatever it is that you are promoting.

Please contact me directly at (419) 923-6471. Or, you can post your real name and contact info here and I'll call you. If this is too scary for you to do, then please refrain from posting again on our forum.

Here's some more interesting Busse history.....

On my path to INFI, I tested and used a maraging steel in 1986-1988 called Vasco Max C350. It was Hardened at 59-60 Rc simply by baking it at 950 for about 6 hours.

I sold 1 knife made out of it to a doctor from Mount Kisco, NY.

I NEVER sold another. There's a reason for that. It could not hold a candle to A2 tool steel in performance, other than corrosion resistance. The primary problem was strength along the edge. It collapsed under heavy impacts. Resharpening in the field was a bit of a nightmare as well. Removing the feather was nearly impossible in the shop with a buffer. I can't imagine how you would attempt this in the field.

I know that reading the analysis of a steel and all of the test data, like wear resistance and charpy impact tests can be very exciting.

I can also assure you that you can read all you want, but until you "Make it, Bake it, and Break it" (Busse credo) you really don't know squat about how it will perform as a knife.

Let's Drink!!!:thumbup:

Jerry:D
Click to expand...

I was just writing this..... Great minds Jerry.... Lol, way to silence ALL who Oppose
 
breavis5694 said:
I tried to search for why he got banned, I'm sure it was justified but i am curious too.

Anyone wishing to pm this info to me can. Thanks for your time hogs
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I confess up front that I do not know for sure why Cliff was Banned, but here are my thoughts. These types of forums "kind of" discussion forums, but also largely "pep rallies" and advertising mechanisms for the makers. I have lots of fun for sure, and I love the positive attitude of the members, but NONE of the knife makers on Blade Forums are interested in any kind independent testing. They are not interested in 1. tests that are not well done and controlled (and this will be their professed position), but also, make no mistake, they are equally opposed to well done tests that show some relative weakness in their knives (bad for business). Cold Steel is a classic example, they create all these marketing videos to show what their knives can do, and these are the "tests" that they want the public to see; those "tests" are probably truthful, but obviously skewed to show the strengths of their knives. If some physics professor comes by and shows a weakness (like the handle falls off the trail master), they HATE that. Knife makers (in general, not Busse) are very threatened by qualified people doing independent reviews and testing. They want to generate their own image and "mystique". Can there be any doubt for example that Noss's videos started disappearing after he showed disappointing performances by 2 high profile makers? Man, you know they had lawyers all over him forcing him to take that stuff down. Two final points, Busse tends to be more tolerant to this because our knives tend to score very well :) . Also, there are those who have supposed that Cliff and Noss are the same person, is there any truth to that?
 
I would love to see if a steel with barely any carbon will hold up to extended cutting. I am thinking it will not. I am guessing that all the major current steels being used in knifemaking like the ones I mentioned above, plus 52100, SR101, 5160, will spank Aermet 100. But hey, I am sure this thread will hit 10-15 pages.
 
Jerry Busse said:
YOWZA!!!

Last Confederate,


The fact that you have NEVER posted before really points to you being a troll or someone wanting hide your true identity. Just like a super hero . . . Only completely different!



Let's Drink!!!:thumbup:

Jerry:D
Click to expand...

Ok, this made me laugh. Funniest comment so far. Good one bro.
 
The Last Confederate said:
In the name of science, I'd be happy to buy you some steel to work and experiment with. I'll call up Carpenter and see what it'll cost per a sample, I had read that AerMet 100 can be purchased in very small lots, not sure about AerMet 340, I'll find out on Monday.

From Carpenter's website.


Is this something that your level of expertise can handle if I bought and sent you some?
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^---- Maybe you should read a little more before posting... Obviously you have no idea who James Terrio is... And I like the fact you ignored Jerry Busse's request (in his own forum I might add) to either post who you are, or email him, or call him, or stop posting here.

I smell Troll getting hit with the Busse Ban Hammer real soon...
 
Last edited:
Cliff and Noss are definitely NOT the same person. Can we NOT have yet another Cliff conversation? If you NEED info, do a search. It's not hard to find.

Jerry, you never fail to impress me. Busse, like INFI, is awesome for many reasons. Jerry doesn't back down from a fight or censor this forum like almost every other manufacturer. Go post something like this in the Hinderer forum and see what happens.

Busse has an open invitation to challenge INFI in public at Blade show. NOBODY has taken him up on that challenge.
 
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