The steel shootout- S30V and S35VN!

[goodeyesniper]

Luis, I think you might be underestimating the importance of something like edge stability and toughness. this is usually more affected by geometry, but steel can also have a large effect. toughness doesn't have to mean for chopping and prying, but simply how the edge holds up if you accidentally hit a staple, or come into contact with other damaging materials.

Granted, I'm a huge proponent of thin knives that are more slicey, so it's not a huge issue for me. But I think there can be definite benefits for a tougher steel in small to medium sized knives. I would agree that something like 3v seems a bit over kill in a folder, but I love me some CPM M4.

 

[gine]

Thanks ankerson, they cut extremely well.

 

[Luis G.]

Luis, I think you might be underestimating the importance of something like edge stability and toughness. this is usually more affected by geometry, but steel can also have a large effect. toughness doesn't have to mean for chopping and prying, but simply how the edge holds up if you accidentally hit a staple, or come into contact with other damaging materials.

Granted, I'm a huge proponent of thin knives that are more slicey, so it's not a huge issue for me. But I think there can be definite benefits for a tougher steel in small to medium sized knives. I would agree that something like 3v seems a bit over kill in a folder, but I love me some CPM M4.

Not on a 4" folder.

 

[Ankerson]

Luis, I think you might be underestimating the importance of something like edge stability and toughness. this is usually more affected by geometry, but steel can also have a large effect. toughness doesn't have to mean for chopping and prying, but simply how the edge holds up if you accidentally hit a staple, or come into contact with other damaging materials.

Granted, I'm a huge proponent of thin knives that are more slicey, so it's not a huge issue for me. But I think there can be definite benefits for a tougher steel in small to medium sized knives. I would agree that something like 3v seems a bit over kill in a folder, but I love me some CPM M4.

Once the knives get thin one has to watch side loading because they are more purpose made slicers, but the benefits really make them shine performance wise.

Thanks ankerson, they cut extremely well.

I know they do as I have more than a few blades that are that thin behind the edge.

They should perform about 3X what the factory thickness would.

 

[Ankerson]

Not on a 4" folder.

Here is an article written by Phil Wilson that goes into more detail.

http://www.seamountknifeworks.com/articles/Materials_for_Knife_Blades.pdf

 

[goodeyesniper]

Not on a 4" folder.

doesn't matter if it's 4" or 40" for the things I was talking about that toughness can have a positive effect on...

 

[Luis G.]

doesn't matter if it's 4" or 40" for the things I was talking about that toughness can have a positive effect on...

Done pretty heavy testing on a few steels my self, only 2 I've made into videos (ZT 560/Manix 2, manix 2 was mostly about the lock design). Geometry matters far more than steel toughness when dealing with short blades.

 

[Ankerson]

Done pretty heavy testing on a few steels my self, only 2 I've made into videos (ZT 560/Manix 2, manix 2 was mostly about the lock design). Geometry matters far more than steel toughness when dealing with short blades.

Common sense has a lot to do with it also.

Taking a thin blade with thin edge geometry and hitting metal with it will cause issues, steel really doesn't matter all that much.

Same goes for side loading, start torquing that blade and see what happens........ That awful sound of the blade chipping out, usually a large chip and or crack.

 

[Luis G.]

Common sense has a lot to do with it also.

Taking a thin blade with thin edge geometry and hitting metal with it will cause issues, steel really doesn't matter all that much.

Same goes for side loading, start torquing that blade and see what happens........ That awful sound of the blade chipping out, usually a large chip and or crack.

Common sense is what I am trying to get through to this individual. Trying to mention that a under 4" folder, a blade's geometry matters far far more, specially at the HRCs most pocket knives sit at.

 

[gine]

I agree, if all people had common sense production company's could use thin blade geometry like the images I posted earlier. The user has to factor in what the knife is going to be used for, based on blade geometry and steel selection. With the newer PM steel, they are all plenty tough for a folder. I wouldn't take my 0.003 caly 3.5 ZDP and baton with it, and I wouldn't take my BK-2 and slice cardboard. For these reasons I choose a tool for the job regardless of the steel.

 

[DR.BOOM]

edit- Justin, I haven't told you good job on the review:thumbup:
I guess we kinda hijacked your thread a bit. Sorry about that.

Thank you for the comment, I don't mind the takeover. I'm actually learning quite a bit here and that's why I joined the forum. The only reason I could really tell the difference in the steels is because I was looking for it. Thanks everyone for the input here and hopefully it keeps up.
-Justin

 

[RWT]

Good thing about the forum is we get to learn from others experience... the bummer is we can't all sit on the front porch, drink beer and BS while doing it.

 

[goodeyesniper]

Common sense is what I am trying to get through to this individual. Trying to mention that a under 4" folder, a blade's geometry matters far far more, specially at the HRCs most pocket knives sit at.

Guess you missed the part of my post that you quoted where I said that geometry is more important than steel?

Just trying to voice my belief that toughness of a steel absolutely CAN have noticeable positive effects on a steel, which you seemed to be disregarding as if there was some magical point where a short knife no longer can benefit by some added edge stability that a steel can offer.... Maybe that's not what you're saying, but it certainly seemed to be in your earlier posts.

Good thing about the forum is we get to learn from others experience... the bummer is we can't all sit on the front porch, drink beer and BS while doing it.

what makes you think that I'm not sitting on my front porch, drinking beer while BSing here?

 

[Luis G.]

Guess you missed the part of my post that you quoted where I said that geometry is more important than steel?

Just trying to voice my belief that toughness of a steel absolutely CAN have noticeable positive effects on a steel, which you seemed to be disregarding as if there was some magical point where a short knife no longer can benefit by some added edge stability that a steel can offer.... Maybe that's not what you're saying, but it certainly seemed to be in your earlier posts.

I think you misunderstand. What I am saying is for an under 4" knife, I cannot see where sufficient stress would be possible due to there being a less than 4" blade. Not a whole lot of force one can muster that can't be taken into consideration purely by geometry alone.

Think of it this way:
If you have a long fixed blade, let's say a 16" machete, and a 3.4" fixed blade.
Let's take a task that can involve the toughness of steel: Chopping. The machete due to the weight, and the length would reach higher velocities, and hit with far more force. While the 3.4" fixed blade, with a short handle would barely even approach the same stresses as the machete.

Now obviously one can use geometry on the 3.4" fixed blade to help prevent rolling/chipping or blade breakage by making it of proper thickness. Since the short blade cannot realistically be exerted to great stresses the blade thickness doesn't have to be taken to extremes, and cutting performance is maintained.
The machete however is a more difficult area. Make the profile too thin, and chances are it will be damaged. Make the profile too thick, and it becomes a lousy chopper and cutter.
Now imagine you want both cutting performance with a slim profile on that very same machete. That's where high toughness steels come in. That's why makers end up using high toughess steels in those situations.

It's not that steels loose their toughness if made into short blades or long blades, it's the probability that on a short blade it will not see stresses that would cause issues even on the simplest of carbon steels (1060-1070-1080-1095 etc). That's why I say geometry alone would suffice on a under 4" blade.

Edge retention is far more important.