The Toughest PM Stainless

DeadboxHero

DeadboxHero

Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
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After 9 months I've finally followed through.

Here is the original thread that started this curiosity.

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/toughness-of-s35vn-and-elmax.1503215/



Part 1

More testing when I have time. I'll do a write up too since we like to read here in Bladeforums more then watch videos but it's important to SEE.

Thanks.

Shawn


UPDATE*

Destruction tested.

 
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This is seriously great stuff. I've been wondering about the toughness of these steels for a long time.
 
DeadboxHero said:
After 9 months I've finally followed through.

Here is the original thread that started this curiosity.

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/toughness-of-s35vn-and-elmax.1503215/



Part 1

More testing when I have time. I'll do a write up too since we like to read here in Bladeforums more then watch videos but it's important to SEE.

Thanks.

Shawn
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Awesome! Thanks for that video. I’m sure I speak for all of us when I say we all appreciate this.

If there is one constructive criticism I have it’s that it seemed the number of whacks against the hotel pan as well as the hardness of the whacks was not the same for all the knives.

I counted 15 whacks for the cpm154 and elmax, but 19 whacks for the s35vn.

I can’t be certain about how hard you hit them but for some reason I felt that the elmax wasn’t hit as hard.
 
Nice work! Thanks for the effort and review! I love all of those steels, but for all around EDC performance on folder and smaller fixed blades, I really enjoy Elmax! I have a foot of Vanax I am going to turn into a fixed blade when I have time. Can't wait to try that out!
Nicely done man! Hope to see some more reviews in the future!
You know though, personal experience is my all time favorite way to test out steels. I can watch and read tons of tests and reviews, but they never really sway my opinion on a steel I have experience with. Regardless, it is informative.
 
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Thanks for the test, much appreciated! Not surprised to see Elmax doing well. Elmax at HRC 61 or higher in my limited experience with sharpening and using it, I'd put it at or above the performance of M390 and 20cv in all around performance, including toughness, and relative ease of sharpening. The interesting thing you demonstrated is that while Elmax was already noted for toughness at lower HRC values, if you push it up to the sweet spot of 61+, you get the best of both worlds: higher toughness than some other competing super steels, AND due to greater hardness, you get extreme edge retention. Would definitely love to see it tested against M390/20cv if you ever get the chance.

I've noticed a few of the 'pry bar' type survival knives starting to come out with Elmax @ HRC 61. A good example is the FirstEdge Survival knife, which is the real deal as far as I can tell and getting good reviews from users who want a survival knife of that type.

In the same vein, I've had fantastic experience thus far with my @Charlie Mike Elmax blade (review). I reprofiled inclusive edge on the chisel grind to 30 degrees, and after trying a few different abrasive progressions, was able to get fantastic sharpness results by sharpening it on DMT coarse, followed by a 4 micron cbn strop, details here.

Elmax is probably one of the top 2 or 3 all-around performing super steels we have available, and it's too bad there are not more production knives being made with it at around 61 HRC which is really where it begins to shine.
 
maximus83 said:
Thanks for the test, much appreciated! Not surprised to see Elmax doing well. Elmax at HRC 61 or higher in my limited experience with sharpening and using it, I'd put it at or above the performance of M390 and 20cv in all around performance, including toughness, and relative ease of sharpening. The interesting thing you demonstrated is that while Elmax was already noted for toughness at lower HRC values, if you push it up to the sweet spot of 61+, you get the best of both worlds: higher toughness than some other competing super steels, AND due to greater hardness, you get extreme edge retention. Would definitely love to see it tested against M390/20cv if you ever get the chance.

I've noticed a few of the 'pry bar' type survival knives starting to come out with Elmax @ HRC 61. A good example is the FirstEdge Survival knife, which is the real deal as far as I can tell and getting good reviews from users who want a survival knife of that type.

In the same vein, I've had fantastic experience thus far with my @Charlie Mike Elmax blade (review). I reprofiled inclusive edge on the chisel grind to 30 degrees, and after trying a few different abrasive progressions, was able to get fantastic sharpness results by sharpening it on DMT coarse, followed by a 4 micron cbn strop, details here.

Elmax is probably one of the top 2 or 3 all-around performing super steels we have available, and it's too bad there are not more production knives being made with it at around 61 HRC which is really where it begins to shine.
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That’s odd. I find m390 tends to be easier for me to sharpen than Elmax. Obiously heat treat plays a role but in my experience m390 has been hands down the easiest high vanadium carbide steel to sharpen hands down.
 
maximus83 said:
Elmax has 3% vanadium carbide vs 4% for M390. They're not that different, but I find Elmax a bit easier to sharpen, and I know at least some of the pro sharpeners have had that similar experience.
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Yes I am aware that m390 has higher carbide volume than elmax. Still for some reason I find m390 and its cousins 204p and 20cv unusually easy to sharpen.

Zvi from Zknives.com claims he believes it is because m390 seems like it doesn’t seen very prone to forming a stubborn burr.

Either way they are both exellent. Elmax actually has the same proportions of alloying elements as m390 just each one is abit less in elmax. (Except silicon where elmax has slightly more)
 
Lapedog said:
Zvi from Zknives.com claims he believes it is because m390 seems like it doesn’t seen very prone to forming a stubborn burr.
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Agree with him about the burr formation--have definitely noticed that M390 forms very little burr, whereas with the Elmax blade I was working, it did tend to form a hard wire edge burr. But that burr was easy to remove by stropping the unground side of my blade, it did not impact overall sharpening time or difficulty.
 
maximus83 said:
Agree with him about the burr formation--have definitely noticed that M390 forms very little burr, whereas with the Elmax blade I was working, it did tend to form a hard wire edge burr. But that burr was easy to remove by stropping the unground side of my blade, it did not impact overall sharpening time or difficulty.
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I have also noticed while reprofiling an edge that for some reason m390 seems to take less time to reprofile than other pm metals, say s30v.

This could be due to the heat treat again and I haven’t done a side by side scientific comparison but something about m390 often makes me marvel about how fast and easily it gets sharp.

For example fixing a roll in the edge seemed to take very little time on m390 when compared to other steels. I was shocked at how fast it was done and back to razor sharp.
 
I find both M390 and Elmax very easy to sharpen, especially for the edge retention you get from them. That is why they are some of my favorites. I do find Elmax sharpens a bit easier though. To me, Elmax sharpens almost as easy as a simple carbon steel. Both get razor sharp with ease, especially when just touching up. I'm glad we have all these great steels to use, there are SO many!!
 
but Shawn ... how much story, I understand this is just the first part ... only 17:13 min
too much talk for a little paper cut :)... of course I'm joking ;)
 
Shawn, just speculation, how do you think the results of the test would be change if you HT'd the Elmax at the lower point it is often done (58-59), or at the well known sweet spot (61)? For instance, would there be a noticeable difference between 61 and 62 in the test results?
 
jstn said:
This is seriously great stuff. I've been wondering about the toughness of these steels for a long time.
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Yes this testing should satiate some of that curiosity but it shouldn't be taken as gospel. In fact I urge other to do testing as, make it more of a team effort since I can't afford the time and cost to do this perfectly
chumaman said:
but Shawn ... how much story, I understand this is just the first part ... only 17:13 min
too much talk for a little paper cut :)... of course I'm joking ;)
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Haha jeez, I feel Yea.

Too much talking, not enough doing.

To be honest, I just want to break stuff with no talking. A lot of my videos have no talking but then some don't understand what I'm doing so I need to explain the finer details.

I guess we need to find the proper ratio of talking and showing but I probably need to WATCH a 17:00 min video on that myself lol


So for the first video, I thought I'd bring everyone up to speed and leave no stone unturned.
To the best of my ability.

I'm happy we have all the talking out of the way so the next videos can just be straight to the point. Breaking stuff and observation.
 
maximus83 said:
Shawn, just speculation, how do you think the results of the test would be change if you HT'd the Elmax at the lower point it is often done (58-59), or at the well known sweet spot (61)? For instance, would there be a noticeable difference between 61 and 62 in the test results?
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YES this is why I wanted to do this project. It gets the gears going doesn't it? What If? I don't know.
Curiosity is a magical thing.
 
Eagle Scout said:
Interesting. Any chance you can throw M390 / 20CV in the ring?
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Only if we do crowd funding. I've got my time and income tied up into things currently that put gas in my car and food in my stomach so Those are my priorities. This was just something extra that took me 9 months to get too that I promised to do for the sake of it.
 
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