The Truth about Cryo Tempering

I am glad to see these positive reports on 440C. I have never ground a 440C myself but have heat treated a few. I'll admit I have shyed away from 440C because of some experience with a few production knives that I assumed were of the 440 series. Now that I have a customer wanting a 440C I am glad to see these good reports and I feel better now about it.

RL
 
Bronze was never selected for its cutting ability (unless it was next to copper). What bronze worked for was durability. A stone knife will, believe it or not, take a sharper edge than ________(enter your favorite steel here). The problem with stone, and especially obsidian, is that you can't make swords out of it. You can make a bronze sword much faster than you can make a flint dagger and the flint dagger will break as soon as you hit something with it. Bronze was more an innovation of war than it was an innovation of utility.

- Chris
 
Isn't it amazing to watch how these threads evolve from their original conception. I catch myself straying off path. What in the hell does whether or not 440C relatively holds and edge or bronze have to do with cryogenic ageing? ;) You like that 'cryo ageing'? Kinda says it all, doesn't it.

RL
 
The ICE AGE Roger !! They cryo'd everything!! We had an excellent discussion of the making and properties of bronze in the Ancient Weapons section of www.swordforum.com .Bronze is the equivalent of iron swords though doesn't match modern steel.
 
TLS A6 tool steel is a medium-alloy, air-hardening tool steel that is characterized by its ability to be through hardened while using the low austenitizing temperatures which are typically associated with oil-hardening tool steels. TLS A6 exhibits good toughness and excellent dimensional stability in heat treatment. TLS A6 is intermediate in wear resistance between O1 oil-hardening tool steel and D2 high-carbon, high-chromium toolsteel.Typical applications for TLS A6 tool steel include blanking and forming dies, trim dies,bending and forming tools, mandrels,

Resistance Stability in Heat Treat59 HRC59 HRC60 HRC58 HRC58 HRC60 HRCDATA SHEETTimken LatrobeA Timken Company SubsidiaryLatrobe, PA 15650-0031 U.S.A.®Steel

What happened to the challenge? Is the earth still flat? I really love it when the thread gets hijacked from those that don't *really* want to know......
 
I know the benefits of cryo treating D2 but is it worth doing it to a stock removal 5160 blade? Is it worth the cost? Will it enhance edge holding with this steel?
Scott
 
Warrant said:
TLS A6 tool steel is a medium-alloy, air-hardening tool steel that is characterized by its ability to be through hardened while using the low austenitizing temperatures which are typically associated with oil-hardening tool steels. TLS A6 exhibits good toughness and excellent dimensional stability in heat treatment. TLS A6 is intermediate in wear resistance between O1 oil-hardening tool steel and D2 high-carbon, high-chromium toolsteel.Typical applications for TLS A6 tool steel include blanking and forming dies, trim dies,bending and forming tools, mandrels,


What happened to the challenge? Is the earth still flat? I really love it when the thread gets hijacked from those that don't *really* want to know......
Click to expand...

What happened to the facts?
You stated that A6 was 440C, it's not!
You made claims of 440C having Vanadium in it, it doesn't!

As to a challenge, what is it? I really saw no challenge.
If you like A6 use it. No one here is forbidding it. Let us know how your knife turns out.
 
Mike Hull said:
What happened to the facts?
You stated that A6 was 440C, it's not!
You made claims of 440C having Vanadium in it, it doesn't!

As to a challenge, what is it? I really saw no challenge.
If you like A6 use it. No one here is forbidding it. Let us know how your knife turns out.
Click to expand...

is A6 even a knife grade steel :D
it's not on my Chart :confused:
http://www.knivesby.com/composition-for-common-knife-steels.html
;)

pop corn anyone Kit's going to kill me..
 
Dan Gray said:
is A6 even a knife grade steel :D
it's not on my Chart :confused:
http://www.knivesby.com/composition-for-common-knife-steels.html
;)

pop corn anyone Kit's going to kill me..
Click to expand...


To be honest, Dan, I don't have the slightest idea. Funny thing is, I can't seem to find the emotion to even give a ****! ;) :D

I guess some people see knifemakers using a fairly narrow range of steels, sit in their armchair and look at all the ferrous steels in that book on metallurgy(sp?) that they got from the library, and decide we're just a bunch of hicks who don't know much about what's REALLY good out there.
They then convince themselves that if it looks real good on paper, it MUST be a better steel than ______<insert favorite steel there, and dammed if they don't know more than all us dummies just plodding along on this old flat earth:rolleyes: , and decide to come in here with a chip on their shoulder, and show us up for the hicks we are.

While they are at it, they will throw in some imaginary comparisons, add some ingredients that really aren't in the real thing, and call that a challenge(I still don't get that one:confused: ).

I'm sure there are several steels that are relatively unknown, floating around out there that nobody has tried, but for the most part, if it's made, it's been tried for a knife.
Because it's not in popular usage usually means that, for whatever reason, they were found wanting. JMO.:eek: :D
 
I have three knives with A6 blades, all made in the 80's by a NM maker. Heat treated with a torch by eye. Later on, I found out the guy's colorblind and relied solely on how "bright" the steel looked. :rolleyes:

They don't hold an edge for squat. :barf:

While it may make a decent blade HT'd right, I have to agree there is a danged good reason it's not the steel of choice.

A6: C 0.7% Mo 1.3 Mn 2.0 Cr 1.0
 
Well, based on the analysis, A6 should make a decent blade. Maybe not ideal, but pretty decent anyway. And, should be fairly tough. But, that's not what this argument/discussion is about. This is about cryo tempering, isn't it? No wait; it's about 440C being the same thing as A6. No wait; it's about carbon steel blades being superior to stainless steel blades. :rolleyes: :p :D
 
Speaking as a proud hick, I am offended that anyone would class a knife maker on the same level as me. :)
 
A6: C=.7, Cr=1.0

Aus6: C=.65, Cr=14-16

440C: C=1, Cr=14-18

Maybe the difference is 'us'.


Steve
 
Mike Hull said:
What happened to the facts?
You stated that A6 was 440C, it's not!
You made claims of 440C having Vanadium in it, it doesn't!

As to a challenge, what is it? I really saw no challenge.
If you like A6 use it. No one here is forbidding it. Let us know how your knife turns out.
Click to expand...

Well, you're right about that....And I apologize for that one. My point was that A6 and 440C are marginal, and I don't use it anyway :rolleyes:

I'll defer to the more qualified here and let this dog die peacefully.......
 
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