The TSA and common sense...

DarkReazon

DarkReazon

Joined
Jan 15, 2003
Messages
202
Some family members are flying out of Detroit to Great Britain soon. I did some research for them about rules and regs. Came across the TSA prohibited items list... TSA Permitted and Prohibited Items List (PDF)

Turns out no knives, kubotans, pool cues or hand grenades, but it's ok to bring hairspray and knitting/crochet needles, a CORKSCREW or even "Toy Transformer Robots"...:rolleyes:

Interesting.

Any thoughts?

Shaun.
 
Knitting needles,that's great. I can bring a ten inch long sharp metal rod on the plane but my tiny keychain SAK has to stay home. I guess I need to take up knitting so I can always be well armed. No sense at all.
Patrick
 
SPhayes,
Yeah that gets my goat too, the last time I flew the lady beside me had a full sewing/crochet kit with needles and everything. I'm fairly certain those ten inch long needles would make a lot better offensive weapon than my SAK Cybertool 35 but maybe they're afraid I could remove critical nuts and bolts with it.
Lagarto
 
I guess we can all buy some Transformers and have a few battles during the fight. Of course, if you want to win you'll need a Robotech/Macross Valkyrie.:D
 
Keep in mind that the FBI has recently issued some new advisories to airports about potential plots to conceal weapons in common items such as cameras and cell phones and that terrorists might be planning another attack in the near future. So, airport security may be on tighter alert right now.
 
I don't care what that thing says I wanna see you try to go through the gate with a 10" inch kitting needle in you pocket...lol Can you say deep cavity search :rolleyes:
 
I can post this without fear that I'm going to provide some terrorist with an idea that hasn't already been thought of, but...

Wouldn't it be REALLY EASY to put a STRAIGHT EDGED RAZOR into the back of a 35mm camera, in the part where the film goes across the rectangle that frames the photo? Tape it down there, and you have easy access to a blade when you get on the plane, right? Has anyone ever heard of the airport security idiots asking (demanding) travelers to open the back of a loaded 35mm camera to prove there was nothing inside?

Hell, the Shomer Tec catalog lists a product that consists of two separate vials of chemicals (dunno what they are) which, when mixed, ignite flame. All a couple of terrorists would have to do is put a small vial of that where the film would go in the camera, meet up on the plane with each of the two vials, and start a fire in the passenger compartment, or possibly up near the cockpit door, possibly causing a crash.

It's really amazing to me, the bullshit posturing the TSA does to make it LOOK like they're preventing attacks on aircraft. They really aren't doing **** when someone like me -- who has no interest or intent to commit violent acts or terrorist acts -- can easily come up with ways to defeat "security."

How about the fact that TSA just announced CUTS to spending on "sky marshals." This is the organization that has done everything it can to THWART the arming of pilots -- they said that security on board the aircraft is the *sky marshals'* job -- but we all know that sky marshals were never on more than a single-digit percentage of all flights; and now there are gonna be *fewer* of them?!

These morons in TSA are guilty of malfeasance. They are abrogating their own responsibility, and then they are forcing people that they won't protect (the travelers who can't even bring a Spyderco Copilot on a plane) to be defenseless. These criminals must be held to account.

---Jeffrey
 
I'm interested in what security measures are taken to prevent explosives from being carried on board. It seems that while SAKs and the like are being taken from flyers, there are no visible measures taken to detect explosives.

Any determined terrorist (or any flyer for that matter) could easily make a flame-sensitive plasticized high-explosive (like AP putty) and mold it to the inside of a Transformer (TM) toy, and blow the airplane to hell with a match. The passengers on AA Flight 63 were only lucky that Richard Reid was incompetent with his handling of explosives; a thirteen year-old kid could have done better with minimal training.

On topic: What's their criteria for determining an object to be a weapon? It seems very arbitrary.
 
Originally posted by sph3ric pyramid
On topic: What's their criteria for determining an object to be a weapon? It seems very arbitrary.
Click to expand...

Its either logic or learning:

LEARNING, n.
The kind of ignorance distinguishing the studious.

LOGIC, n.
The art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with the limitations and incapacities of the human misunderstanding. The basic of logic is the syllogism, consisting of a major and a minor premise and a conclusion -- thus:
Major Premise: Sixty men can do a piece of work sixty times as quickly as one man.

Minor Premise: One man can dig a posthole in sixty seconds; therefore --

Conclusion: Sixty men can dig a posthole in one second.

This may be called the syllogism arithmetical, in which, by combining logic and mathematics, we obtain a double certainty and are twice blessed.

- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary (1906)
 
I fly every week and can tell you that anything sharp and pointy or considered a 'tool' (even if it is a multi-tool without a blade) is subject to confiscation.

I would agree that my little key chain size plier/screw driver is a hell of a lot less problematic that knitting needles. I was really pissed off when that got confiscated.
 
acutally i heard a big long thing on the radio about them xraying camera exipment and ruining peoples used and unused film...People had to buy film at destination and get it developed before they return.

So my guess is that they would see that razor...nice try though :D
 
Actually, they do random testing for explosives. My stuff has been checked for it several times. Is it especially thorough; I don't know. They do check though.
 
Roadrunner, regarding the sensitivity of the their explosive sniffers,they're pretty darn sensitive. My brother does a lot of backcountry skiing/telemarking and the last several times he was in avalanche areas where they had been blasting to remove the dangerous snow build up. The sniffers were able to pick up the minute traces of explosives on his boots which had come in contact with the blasted snow, or clothes which he had worn through the area. Fortunately the screeners in Nevada are used to that sort of thing and he got through without a major hassle, but it could be a problem if you get some jacked up buck tooth billy bob with no common sense or ability to conceptualize logical explanations.
Lagarto
 
The explosive residue machine works. It's important to keep that in mind. If you go out to the range, shoot some guns, then just pick up your suitcase which is blocking the path in the garage and set it aside, you can easily leave enough residue on the handle to trip that machine even weeks later. So, you shoot or otherwise handle explosives or any sort, be careful what you then touch.
 
Is it able to detect the residues of explosives of differing compositions, or is it set to detect explosives of a specific variety?

And where are these explosive residue machines used (as I haven't seen one in use)? If it does detect a variety of residues, must be pretty darn complex.
 
Code 3 got there ahead of me:D
You sound like you were expecting common sense from the TSA-silly boy
 
Originally posted by sph3ric pyramid
Is it able to detect the residues of explosives of differing compositions, or is it set to detect explosives of a specific variety?

And where are these explosive residue machines used (as I haven't seen one in use)? If it does detect a variety of residues, must be pretty darn complex.
Click to expand...

A few years ago I went to a cinema in Central London. I was doing my chemistry degree at the time, and it was a time of heightened terrorist alert. One of the cinema security attendants used a wand to sniff my bag, and my lab book set it off. I simply told her what it was and she waved me through. This was obviously intended more as a visble reassurance/deterrent. If it was real security she should have had me searched thouroughly, obviously the lab book thing could be a simple and effective cover.

I hadn't been handling explosives, so it was detecting some generic by-products. Because the wand doesn't come into contact with the material, the molecules that it detects have to be volatile, which means they're smaller/simpler molecules than the explosive itself (most explosives are large organic molecules, usually crystalline solids at room temp and non-volatile). Whether the by-products are products of decomposition, or impurities from manufacture, I'm not sure.

It means they're using a sledgehammer to crack a nut, but for air travel, better safe than sorry.

I imagine a few years on the systems are a bit more sophisticated, so my story may be obsolete.
 
Originally posted by Gollnick
The explosive residue machine works.
Click to expand...

No it doesn't; see below.


It's important [...] f you [...] shoot [...] be careful what you then touch.
Click to expand...


False positives lead to false negatives, which means the machines are ineffective.

It's the whole "boy who cried wolf" syndrome all over again.

A clever terrorist could use this knowledge to contaminate himself and others, perhaps accomplices but also innocents, and then use the "I was at the range earlier..." excuse to "social engineer" his way on board with explosives anyhow.

As we've argued before, Chuck, I don't think that technological means are enough to stop terrorism. Terrorism is a state of mind, not a single incident, and technology can't do anything about that. Technology can, however, hold us all hostage until the terrorists get around to it.

Pierre
 
urban vermin
on the run
can't remember
what he done
.
but the gummint want him to report
.
took a knife
onto the plane
now they want him
to explain
.
but it's just a toy he said he thought
.
terrorism
turned around
we all guilty
they have found
.
represented by the best advice that can be bought
.
locked away
how can it be
everywhere
we all born free
.
we was very young when that was taught
 
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