The TSA and common sense...

Brothers & Sisters of Air Travel,
Rubber Ducky et alia,

False positives lead to false negatives, which means the machines are ineffective.

You might like to read the following:

Title 49 Subtitle B Chapter XII Subchapter C Civil Aviation Security Part 1540; wherein - 1540.107 Submission to screening and inspection (states):
"No individual may enter a sterile area or board an aircraft without submitting to the screening and inspection of his or her person and accessible property in accordance with the procedures being applied to control access to that area or aircraft under this subchapter."

Additionally:

http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?theme=52

Further along in the above cited Title 49 is: 1540.111 Carriage of weapons, explosives, and incendiaries by individuals. (Not cited here)

False positives? Somebody is going to get inspected. And according to: Title 3 Executive Order 12968 of August 2, 1995 Part 1 (d) "Classified information"...prohibits disclosure of who, what, when, where, why, who, how much or how many.

It's kind of like the sign posted on the old country store: "The owner is armed with a double-barreled shotgun three nights a week...You guess which three."

Lastly: You might want to view: http://www.tsa.org/.
There are sections regarding items, such as:

http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?theme=8&content=662 , and

http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?theme=8&content=663

There may be a whole lot of dastardly knaves afoot. Would you accept something less?

Regards,
Lance Gothic
Shibumi
 
What a timely subject....

So.. I just get into Chicago's airport on Tuesday. I get into my rental car and start lookin through my checked bag for my Microtech Lightfoot Combat carry knife....As I always do when I travel.

Man, I was so pissed when I realized that it had been pilfered by some TSA or other airport clowns out of my luggage.

After all, this is $300 knife and is my favorite (well one of my favorites D:) .

Anyway Im in my hotel room stewing about my stolen knife when I unpack my laptop.

SUPRISE! There is my LCC, right there in my -CARRY ON- bag.

While Im REALLY glad they didnt spot it and confiscate a $300 pocket knife, it sure doesnt give me a nice warm feelin about airport security.

Hell, this knife was not legal for carry on PRIOR to 9/11

What amazes me even more...they ran my laptop bag through TWICE. The first time they said it was partly cutoff, so they picked it up and ran it through a second time.

I figure if I can completely accidently smuggle aboard a 3 1/2 knife, a bad guy can definitely smuggle aboard whatever he needs.

:(
 
dman, your post just made me really glad I decided to drive home instead of fly this weekend.
 
Originally posted by Rubber Ducky
False positives lead to false negatives, which means the machines are ineffective.

It's the whole "boy who cried wolf" syndrome all over again.
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I'm not too sure that I follow your logic here. A positive result will mean you get your bag checked more carefully, just the same as testing for some diseases, where a cheap initial test with a higher false positive rate (but a low to nil false negative rate) is carried out to single out cases for further testing. I'd rather the first tests/machines be "ineffective" (inasmuch as that means being prone to false positives) than for them to run the risk of letting through false negatives.

If you could show to me that having high rates of false positives is leading to sloppiness in the secondary testing, I'd believe you. But from what we see here, I don't think that we're justified in saying that false positives lead to false negatives.

I think that most explosive scanning machines test for the chemical signature of nitrogen compounds. The common ones actually put a swab to the bag to pick up any trace residues that might have been left on the surface, while some of the more expensive ones use more sophisticated techniques which don't require physical contact with the bag.
 
Good Evening All-

Originally posted by dman4384
"What a timely subject...SURPRISE! There is my (Microtech) LCC, right there in my CARRY-ON bag..."
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DMAN4384, I hear what you're saying! Flew out to LAS-McCarron a few months ago and accidentally forgot a SOEGEAR shell carrier loaded with six 3.00" Brenneke slugs stuffed in my boots in my overnight bag! It was a totally honest mistake and I was horrified when I arrived as that would have made MAJOR regional television news.

I carefully packed my slugs and shell carrier, and FedExed them to myself to ensure everything got home safely.

The long and short of it is that the TSA is making criminals out of people with absolutely no criminal intent. Hijacking airplanes using guns or knives has gone the way of the Dodo bird and we all know it. Modern travelers simply are not submissive and will reduce any threat to pulp.

The next Islamanazi who jumps up with his AFCK and shouts, "In the name of Allah, this plane is MINE! Allah Akbar!" has a remaining lifetime of about 20 seconds until he is ripped to pieces. Great thread.

~ Blue Jays ~
 
As long as there are human beings involved in the process, mistakes and oversights will be made. I don't know about you, but I'm not perfect, so I'm not going to call the kettle black.

Airport security doesn't have to be perfect to be effective. About a year ago, the media hooted when a test found that simulated weapons in bags escaped notice by TSA something like 30% of the time. But here's the question: is the glass 30% empty... or is it 70% full? If you are a criminal trying to smuggle a weapon through, the odds are not in your favor.
 
The next Islamanazi who jumps up with his AFCK and shouts, "In the name of Allah, this plane is MINE! Allah Akbar!" has a remaining lifetime of about 20 seconds until he is ripped to pieces.
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Exactly.

One-on-one is easy for a man with some hand-to-hand combat training. Two-on-one isn't difficult for a trained fighter. Three-on-one is doable. Four-on-one starts to require advanced skill. Five-on-one is tough even for an expert. And twenty-on-one? Unless he had something belt-fed, not even Bruce Lee could triumph. Even with a pistol (much less a box cutter) one man is no match for thirty angry folks armed with dinner trays, drinks cups, blankets, pillows, magazines, and safety cards all rushing him at once.
 
Originally posted by Benjamin Liu
I guess we can all buy some Transformers and have a few battles during the fight. Of course, if you want to win you'll need a Robotech/Macross Valkyrie.:D
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Nah... if I want to win then I'd pick Optimus Prime. He is THE best, always. :D
 
Hey how about the terrorist with the bottle of Evian mineral water I see every one sucking on these days,? Only its not full of water but Nitro Glycerine, Surprise!
 
Originally posted by GB CROW
Hey how about the terrorist with the bottle of Evian mineral water I see every one sucking on these days,? Only its not full of water but Nitro Glycerine, Surprise!
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Everytime I've gone through security at airports with a beverage after 9/11 they make me take a drink of my beverage to make sure I'm not smuggling on some Nitro Glycerine or other toxic/expolsive item.
 
They've stopped that practice after an incident in which a woman was forced to drink her own breast milk. She had a baby with her and a bottle to feed it with on the flight, and the TSA made her drink some of it before she could get on the flight. It turned into a big PR scandal so to the best of my knowledge they aren't doing it anymore.
 
Remind me never to take a plane trip to visit my doctor, and bring a urine sample on board with me.
 
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