THE ULTIMATE LOCK ?????

KenOnion · Nov 18, 1999

I'm curious ,
When judging a locking mechanism what do you look for?

What attributes do you look for ?

How strong does the lock need to be ?

What other miscellaneous properties do you look for ?

What would THE ULTIMATE LOCKING MECHANISM be like to use ?

leroys_45 · Nov 18, 1999

i look mostly for user friendliness in a lock. i also need many knife options in that particular lock. i guess that's why lockbakcks are my favorite (for now) i can get nearly any blade profile and handle style i want and still have the same lock.

for a new lock i would want ambi operation, easy to use, has some kind of "fail safe" feature, strength greater than 150 lbs would be nice, and it would be like heaven to use. i consider the axis lock to be near nirvana, but at this point i only have 3 choices for knives and none have my prized spyderco hole. i see that it's business and all, but it would be better for knife users if any maker could use a certain lock or at least liscence it for a very small fee. i'd love to see some spydercos with an axis lock.

shootist16 · Nov 18, 1999

I would say a lock that enables the blade to be smoothly opened, allows the blade to be closed with one hand, and has a tight lockup (meaning no blade play). Not important to me but I am sure it is to others is that it be ambidextrous. I would also like one that is not prone to malfunction, be it from debris, wear, or stress. I will probably be in the minority when I say that strength alone takes a backseat to some of these other issues. Don't get me wrong, but a lock that holds loads of up to 400 lbs is nice, but how often are we going to put our knives under that much stress?

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-Dennis Bible
Knoxville, Tennessee

stjames · Nov 18, 1999

It should engage and release with one hand, blind, wearing gloves, wet and/or oily, quickly and easily.

It should allow a smooth, fluid action and have no play when engaged.

It should be strong enough to withstand the leverage applied to most hard use hand tools.

It should be reliable. Consistent through thousands of cycles, no sticking, no slipping.

I look for simplicity of design, quality of materials, and a high degree of excellence in execution.

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James Segura
San Francisco, CA

[This message has been edited by stjames (edited 18 November 1999).]

UW Mitch · Nov 18, 1999

The most important thing to me in a lock is how smoothly it operates. I really don't put any of my knives under extereme use, so for me brute strength would be low on my list. Being a lefty I'd have to say ambidextrous locks are perferable, if not 100% ambi (like the axis-lock) then something that is lefty friendly (like my Spyderco Wegner).

~Mitch

ghostsix · Nov 18, 1999

Button lock.

Cougar Allen · Nov 18, 1999

Brethren and Cistern, the worst of the numerous problems with knife locks is they are not foolproof. No lock yet placed on the market has any provision to stop a fool from unlocking it and bending the knife in half at the joint and putting it in his pocket.

The ultimate lock is no lock at all, saith the Cougar. Fold not thy knife, lest thou find it still folded the next time you need it! You might need it in a hurry, you know....

-Cougar Allen :{)
Wholly Brother Cougar, C.C.L. (Charismatic Cult Leader)
The Wholly Brotherhood and Cisternity of Voracious Truth

highrent1 · Nov 18, 1999

Except the button lock, "What they said."
The lock back seems to be the best of all worlds.The axis lock seems to be a great lock but the few I have handled have been rough to unlock at times

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Bill
Salem Virginia

Scarman · Nov 18, 1999

Strength, versatility, reliability(ala Sebenza).
I like the Integral lock because of it's inherent strength and simplicity.
I like the Rolling lock because of the sheer strngth capacity. I have as yet, no experience with the Axis lock.
Personally though, I am moving towards fixed blades more and more, for the reasons mentioned by Cougar and others.

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The bible is not such a book a man would write if he could, or could write if he would.

*Lewis S. Chafer

2 Tim 3:16

Gollnick · Nov 18, 1999

Gentleman, I give you the butterfly knife.

It perfectly meets all of Mr. Stjames criteria.

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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.4cs.net/~gollnick

JoHnYKwSt · Nov 18, 1999

Lock should be:

Smooth
Tight lock up
Simple (liner lock, integral lock)
unobtrusive (not interfere with blade style, length, handle shape, size) (liner lock, integral lock)
Keep the blade closed (lockbacks, axis)
Should take a long time to wear
Most important attibute is reliability.

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Johnny
[]xxxxxx[]=============>

stjames · Nov 18, 1999

Chuck, why, yes it does

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James Segura
San Francisco, CA

Damon · Nov 18, 1999

A lock that does not unlock when you don't want it to would be nice. Look at lock releases that jut out from the body of the knife. They are begging to be released accidently. Recess the lock release. It doesn't matter if its an Axis, Rolling, or liner lock.

Gollnick · Nov 19, 1999

Smooth

I'd certainly have to call a good balisong smooth.

Tight lock up

The tightest both open and closed.

Simple (liner lock, integral lock)

Just one piece of solid steel.

unobtrusive (not interfere with blade style, length, handle shape, size)

Even allows double-edged, spear points, even a Kris.

Keep the blade closed

Balisongs sure do.

Should take a long time to wear

It's not the lock that'll wear out on your balisong.

Most important attibute is reliability.

No failures to keep locked and no failures to keep open. That's a balisong.

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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.4cs.net/~gollnick

tallwingedgoat · Nov 19, 1999

Well looks like everyone pretty much covered it. I just want to add a little.

1. Comfort. Those Benchmade linerlocks with lots of teeth are real nasty on my thumbs.

2. Safty. Not just strength. But I don't want my fingers to cross the path of the blade when I close it. Another strike against the linerlock.

JoHnYKwSt · Nov 19, 1999

Balisongs sure are up there when it comes to great locks. It seems perfect compared to the other locks except for a few things: it is not as practical, it is not as simple to operate, it is not as fool proof, it is not legal in all places.

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Johnny
[]xxxxxx[]=============>

Professor · Nov 19, 1999

The most important factor in a folder's lock to me (though it is listed as a priority with some others, and not the top priority) is the lock's resistence to long-term wear. The Axis lock for instance appeals to me more for its wear resistance than its supposed strength; to me the strength is just a bonus. I want a folder that can conceivably outlast me; I'm reasonably young and as hard as I am on my knives that'll be a challenge. Why pay between $400 and $600 dollars for a nicely embellished custom folder that's got a lock that's gonna wear out under normal use in two to three years? People (makers and manufacturers) seem to be coming around to the idea of knife longevity vs. overall strength. Second to longevity is reliability. A lock cannot be reliable if it is worn out. Professor.

Gollnick · Nov 19, 1999

Admit it, Gentleman, the balisong is THE ULTIMATE LOCK!

"except for a few things: it is not as practical,"

I don't see why not. I use mine all the time.

"it is not as simple to operate, it is not as fool proof,"

There are two kinds of balisong manipulations: those that are elaborate and complex. These are for showing off. And, those that are simple and reliable. These are for actual use. I have never failed to teach anyone who made even a simple effort at least a few simple balisong manipulations.

"it is not legal in all place"

True, but here in Oregon, they are.

I know of only one other lock that allows a double-edged blade, the OTF auto, and now we're talking seriously illegal (sending one by US Mail is the same legally as mailing a letter bomb).

A balisong locked shut is completely safe to carry (unlike a lot of autos and even a many thumb-studs when people loosen them up to allow a quick opening). A balisong locked open is virtually as strong and reliable as a fixed-blade.

I can teach someone a basic balisong opening and closing (and a lot of locks that can be opened with one hand can't be closed with one), just as fast and as easily as you can teach them to use a thumb stud of hole (and, yes, there is technique involved with these locks too).

As Benchmade says, "The best is born of history and tradition."

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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.4cs.net/~gollnick

JoHnYKwSt · Nov 19, 1999

I do not own any balisongs and have very limited experience with them, partly becuase I live in California. If I lived in a place where Balisongs were legal I would have bought one a long time ago. Even if I had one I'm almost completely certain that a balisong would not replace my daily carries. They are fun to play with and have that cool factor, but I do not see them as reliable or robust as say my Sebenza. I probably would be afraid of using one hard (even though I would trust the lock) because I might break it. Also I would have to carry it in a sheath because there is no clip, and I do not wear belts.

This is all my opinion and how I see it. Who knows, maybe one day (if I move out of California) I'll carry Balisongs. I would still probably trust some of my other knives more however.

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Johnny
[]xxxxxx[]=============>

Gollnick · Nov 20, 1999

Many balisongs that you've probably seen are what I call "Charming China Cheapies". You're right. These are just crap. But, a good one, a Benchmade 45, for example, is more durable than any other knife. Even a legendary Sebenza still has a lock mechanism that can break and fail. The balisong's lock is just a piece of solid metal and a pin. It's entirely durable and entirely reliable.
You can get any form of knife in a cheap, made-in-China, knock-off. You know those knives, be they liner locks, lock backs, OTF auto's, whatever form, you know they're not good examples of their breed. So, don't go comparing a $5 balisong bought from some nameless guy at a gun show to a Sebenza. Get a balisong in the same league (and price range), and you will have The Ultimate Lock.

Short of a fixed blade, there is nothing stronger and more reliable than the balisong lock.

The fact that balisongs are illegal in many places does not change the fact that it is The Ultimate Lock. The topic here was not "The best CA-legal lock?" but "THE ULTIMATE LOCK?????"

Now that we know that the Balisong is The Ultimate Lock, perhaps you'd like to start a new thread, "The Penultimate Lock."

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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.4cs.net/~gollnick

THE ULTIMATE LOCK ?????

KenOnion

leroys_45

shootist16

knife law moderator

stjames

Sebenzanista

UW Mitch

ghostsix

Cougar Allen

Buccaneer (ret.)

highrent1

Scarman

Gollnick

Musical Director

JoHnYKwSt

stjames

Sebenzanista

Damon

Gollnick

Musical Director

tallwingedgoat

JoHnYKwSt

Professor

Gollnick

Musical Director

JoHnYKwSt

Gollnick

Musical Director