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Sorry about that. In looking up a link to post (below), I learned a few things myself, quite an interesting article. I'd always taken craic to be a word of Irish Gaelic origin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craic
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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
The ultimate traditional pocket knife?
- Thread starter jackknife
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Sorry about that. In looking up a link to post (below), I learned a few things myself, quite an interesting article. I'd always taken craic to be a word of Irish Gaelic origin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craic
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Carl,
thank you for your thread: as always, it's a great read, and a wonderful way to share your experience and introduce a talk.
The ultimate pocket knife...it's quite obvious that there can't be just one for all of us. Yet, each one of us walks his/her way through life (and cutlery), experiences the wonders of change, and enjoys wandering around (thanks to Randy for quoting Tolkien), before settling with what works best, in that moment, in that very situation. And at the same time, we all look back at the choices we had made before, with a mix of feelings and thoughts. "Well that's what I thought at that time". "I should have known better, even back then". "Oh, the lure of new things, of the exotic, of the undiscovered" "Oh, the power of the things we grew up with", and so on.
No one here is as happy as I am for the fact that you're currently carrying that very knife, and that you consider it somehow the best ("ultimate") choice you could make, after a life of carrying knives. Funny enough, although I'm about half your age (so I guess
), I've seen and carried such knives so much that I ended up looking for a change; not to fulfill a need, just for the sake of trying.
I really liked Christian's post, and his view of the balisong. Since I discovered butterfly knives, I thought I would be glad to learn and experience more of the history of these knives; unfortunately, it seems that nowadays they've become more a "mall-ninja" thing and their traditional roots and meaning have disappeared, except from their homeplace. I think I wouldn't like to see teenagers carrying black coated resolzas with titanium handles and so on...actually, I wish that, someday, I will be able to travel the fields in the Philippines and see farmers carrying and using their balisongs, just like I can wander the villages of Sardinia and meet plenty of shepherds with a resolza in their pocket and a piece of cheese or bread or sausage waiting to be sliced and shared.
I'm far away from considering anything "ultimate" in my life, assuming I will ever do so. But in the meantime I love the journey, I'm thankful for everything I've learned and received on this forum, I carry a knife in my pocket, and I smile every time I see Carl's pictures of the Pattadesa I sent him
Fausto
thank you for your thread: as always, it's a great read, and a wonderful way to share your experience and introduce a talk.
The ultimate pocket knife...it's quite obvious that there can't be just one for all of us. Yet, each one of us walks his/her way through life (and cutlery), experiences the wonders of change, and enjoys wandering around (thanks to Randy for quoting Tolkien), before settling with what works best, in that moment, in that very situation. And at the same time, we all look back at the choices we had made before, with a mix of feelings and thoughts. "Well that's what I thought at that time". "I should have known better, even back then". "Oh, the lure of new things, of the exotic, of the undiscovered" "Oh, the power of the things we grew up with", and so on.
No one here is as happy as I am for the fact that you're currently carrying that very knife, and that you consider it somehow the best ("ultimate") choice you could make, after a life of carrying knives. Funny enough, although I'm about half your age (so I guess
), I've seen and carried such knives so much that I ended up looking for a change; not to fulfill a need, just for the sake of trying. I really liked Christian's post, and his view of the balisong. Since I discovered butterfly knives, I thought I would be glad to learn and experience more of the history of these knives; unfortunately, it seems that nowadays they've become more a "mall-ninja" thing and their traditional roots and meaning have disappeared, except from their homeplace. I think I wouldn't like to see teenagers carrying black coated resolzas with titanium handles and so on...actually, I wish that, someday, I will be able to travel the fields in the Philippines and see farmers carrying and using their balisongs, just like I can wander the villages of Sardinia and meet plenty of shepherds with a resolza in their pocket and a piece of cheese or bread or sausage waiting to be sliced and shared.
I'm far away from considering anything "ultimate" in my life, assuming I will ever do so. But in the meantime I love the journey, I'm thankful for everything I've learned and received on this forum, I carry a knife in my pocket, and I smile every time I see Carl's pictures of the Pattadesa I sent him
Fausto
Great designs earn their keep.
Carl, thanks for a great, thought provoking thread.
I've worked for many years as a designer of sorts (entirely different industry) and now believe that wise design should resist the trap of "new is better". "New is better" is something of a cultural religious belief in the western world, very much tied to the romantic hopes of the scientific and industrial revolutions. Go back and reread the Sherlock Holmes stories; great hymns to the ideal of progress.
Blind allegiance to the new ignores the fact that the past has produced hundreds and thousands of design variants over the centuries. Each is like a little experiment of utility. Almost all of them were failures in the sense that they failed to earn their keep. Tried for a bit and then set aside. But a few, a very few, survive. A few, a very few, get the balance of competing design goals just so. They survive and become classics.
Classic designs almost never appeal to beginners. Beginners almost always focus on the wrong performance goals. They tend to focus on what they perceive to be important but that years of experience will show to be simply urgent or convenient, which are a twins and both different from important.
Please bear with me on this...
The saddle on this bike is a Brooks leather B-17. This basic design has been in production in the 1880s.
estuary by Pinnah, on Flickr
This camp stove is a Svea 123. Variants of this basic design go back to the turn of the last century.
Svea 123 by Pinnah, on Flickr
And here is my Opinel #9.
opinel-9 by Pinnah, on Flickr
IMO, these designs are all classics.
I've owned and ridden more bike saddles than I can count. The leather Brooks requires some care, especially in the rain. It's not convenient. But at mile 50 of a long ride, nothing gives the same comfort. Nothing.
I've used nearly every camp stove made. Some are lighter. Others crank out more BTUs. But, the Svea has no plastic to break or burn (seen several MSR pumps in flames). The jet doesn't clog. It lights every time with no failures, which is important when it's -5F and your party is tired, dehydrated and still miles from the road and needing warm water to be melted from snow to get home.
I've owned a good number of knives. Not as many as many people here, but enough. Some are emotionally tied to my youth. None of them are durable or cut as well or as generally useful day in, day out as the Opinel #9. Not even close.
The Opinel, for me, has earned its keep. Just a great design.
EDITED TO ADD: Please, no follow ups on the bike saddle or stove. I'm pointing to them only to illustrate what I think of as being at the core of TRADITIONAL design and why traditional designs sometimes persist. IMO, this sits at the core of why traditional knives have enduring relevance. Please, please, don't let the examples steer the discussion away from knives. This post is about knives and Opinels in particular.
Carl, thanks for a great, thought provoking thread.
I've worked for many years as a designer of sorts (entirely different industry) and now believe that wise design should resist the trap of "new is better". "New is better" is something of a cultural religious belief in the western world, very much tied to the romantic hopes of the scientific and industrial revolutions. Go back and reread the Sherlock Holmes stories; great hymns to the ideal of progress.
Blind allegiance to the new ignores the fact that the past has produced hundreds and thousands of design variants over the centuries. Each is like a little experiment of utility. Almost all of them were failures in the sense that they failed to earn their keep. Tried for a bit and then set aside. But a few, a very few, survive. A few, a very few, get the balance of competing design goals just so. They survive and become classics.
Classic designs almost never appeal to beginners. Beginners almost always focus on the wrong performance goals. They tend to focus on what they perceive to be important but that years of experience will show to be simply urgent or convenient, which are a twins and both different from important.
Please bear with me on this...
The saddle on this bike is a Brooks leather B-17. This basic design has been in production in the 1880s.
estuary by Pinnah, on Flickr
This camp stove is a Svea 123. Variants of this basic design go back to the turn of the last century.
Svea 123 by Pinnah, on Flickr
And here is my Opinel #9.
opinel-9 by Pinnah, on Flickr
IMO, these designs are all classics.
I've owned and ridden more bike saddles than I can count. The leather Brooks requires some care, especially in the rain. It's not convenient. But at mile 50 of a long ride, nothing gives the same comfort. Nothing.
I've used nearly every camp stove made. Some are lighter. Others crank out more BTUs. But, the Svea has no plastic to break or burn (seen several MSR pumps in flames). The jet doesn't clog. It lights every time with no failures, which is important when it's -5F and your party is tired, dehydrated and still miles from the road and needing warm water to be melted from snow to get home.
I've owned a good number of knives. Not as many as many people here, but enough. Some are emotionally tied to my youth. None of them are durable or cut as well or as generally useful day in, day out as the Opinel #9. Not even close.
The Opinel, for me, has earned its keep. Just a great design.
EDITED TO ADD: Please, no follow ups on the bike saddle or stove. I'm pointing to them only to illustrate what I think of as being at the core of TRADITIONAL design and why traditional designs sometimes persist. IMO, this sits at the core of why traditional knives have enduring relevance. Please, please, don't let the examples steer the discussion away from knives. This post is about knives and Opinels in particular.
Last edited:
zippofan
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I love coming to this forum to read such thoughtful threads. I had someone recently ask me about the "old fashioned" pocketknife that I had, and why I use it rather than a modern folder (of which I have a few too). I explained that it was like my preference of a Zippo over a butane throwaway for a lighter, and an automatic watch over quartz. Tactical knives, quartz watches and Bic lighters were all invented in my lifetime, so I remember my dad and grandfathers using the "old fashioned" things, and using them keeps me connected to them in some way. At least I think so...
I do enjoy my Opinels, especially my Bubinga No.6, and a Morris and small Pattada are on my list to purchase. I don't carry single blade knives as much as other patterns though. It just makes me feel better to have a multibladed knife in my pocket, I don't know why.
I do enjoy my Opinels, especially my Bubinga No.6, and a Morris and small Pattada are on my list to purchase. I don't carry single blade knives as much as other patterns though. It just makes me feel better to have a multibladed knife in my pocket, I don't know why.
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Very interesting and thoughtful post Pinnah, I have a little design experience myself, mainly relating to the outdoor industry. Few designs become classics, but unfortunately, these days, the creation of new design is often led by a drive for greater short-term profit rather than a wish to create excellence. Designs are often put on the market untested, and the consumer used as a paying guinea-pig, before defective designs are either scrapped or improved. Sometimes the same faulty designs then resurface years later.
I'll give a couple of examples, and again I'm only referencing them as examples.
In relation to a 'design' that was solely related to greater profit, the 'interactive zip' on waterproof jackets, supposedly intended to allow a fleece jacket to be zipped into the outer garment. Since they are only linked at the zip there is little advantage in terms of convenience, since the sleeves of the inner jacket invariably turn inside out when you take the garment off. In terms of overall efficiency, the use of pockets on the inner fleece jacket are lost, drying time is increased, and the wearer is left with a large uninsulated and draughty gap down the front of the jacket. The real purpose of ‘interactive zips’ was that it greatly increases the likelihood of retailers selling two garments at the same time, and of consumers buying two garments from the same manufacturer.
In relation to my latter point in the first paragraph above, in the early 1980’s a well-known Italian walking boot manufacturer introduced a boot with a rounded heel, which brought the ‘heel strike’ forward, thus in theory reducing shock and the resultant fatigue caused to the wearer. This flawed design led directly to deaths on the hills through walkers and climbers slipping, and it was quickly withdrawn. The same design feature has currently just been introduced by another footwear manufacturer.
We all know about built-in obsolescence in things like electrical goods and automobiles, something which is endemic these days, and has been for a long time. Then there’s just plain old bad design. Few things become genuine design classics because there are so many factors mitigating against good design. But when something, whatever it is, stands the test of time, its functionality is a thing of beauty in my opinion, and the designer deserves the utmost respect.
I'll give a couple of examples, and again I'm only referencing them as examples.
In relation to a 'design' that was solely related to greater profit, the 'interactive zip' on waterproof jackets, supposedly intended to allow a fleece jacket to be zipped into the outer garment. Since they are only linked at the zip there is little advantage in terms of convenience, since the sleeves of the inner jacket invariably turn inside out when you take the garment off. In terms of overall efficiency, the use of pockets on the inner fleece jacket are lost, drying time is increased, and the wearer is left with a large uninsulated and draughty gap down the front of the jacket. The real purpose of ‘interactive zips’ was that it greatly increases the likelihood of retailers selling two garments at the same time, and of consumers buying two garments from the same manufacturer.
In relation to my latter point in the first paragraph above, in the early 1980’s a well-known Italian walking boot manufacturer introduced a boot with a rounded heel, which brought the ‘heel strike’ forward, thus in theory reducing shock and the resultant fatigue caused to the wearer. This flawed design led directly to deaths on the hills through walkers and climbers slipping, and it was quickly withdrawn. The same design feature has currently just been introduced by another footwear manufacturer.
We all know about built-in obsolescence in things like electrical goods and automobiles, something which is endemic these days, and has been for a long time. Then there’s just plain old bad design. Few things become genuine design classics because there are so many factors mitigating against good design. But when something, whatever it is, stands the test of time, its functionality is a thing of beauty in my opinion, and the designer deserves the utmost respect.
My three most used pocket knives these days. Simple pocket slicers. The Sardinian Pattese resting on an Italian Caminetto hand carved pipe, the Turkish Hassan on another carved Turkish Meershaum, and the old Opinel resting on a no name pipe that just has 'Made in France' on one side of the shank, and 'Algerian Brier" on the other side. But it smokes great.
Lol, boy this post was different than what I expected when opening it up.
It is funny how different knives affect different carriers differently. I can state with no reservation whatsoever that there is no way under the sum you will ever get me to pocket a knife with a contour like these kinds of knives are equipped with. No knock on their performance, just the fact that being thin is one of the most (if not THE most) important factors in how satisfied I am with taking a knife for a ride in my pocket. Others don't feel the same and have a different set of factors that they weed their knife choices from.
I also humbly submit (with no malice or condescension whatsoever meant) that a lot of our fraternity are "tinkerers". We experiment and delve into the details and check out different styles and looks because.... well, because we want to.
All these words boil down to this, if you are a tinkerer I say carry on. If trying out new things and seeing how they work and enjoying the whole process is a source of joy for you then keep on keepin' on and don't let anyone tell you different. I'm not one of the tinkerer fraternity but I enjoy hearing about the new adventures of those of you that are. And I admit I'll probably have a good natured smile on my face when the Peanut exerts its will on Carl and he jumps back on the wagon in a year or two. That's all part of the run of it.
Will
Hmmm, maybe Fausto needs to set up an import operation. I can see it now; The Sardinian Connection! I can hear the ghostly strains of Glen Fry's "Smuggler's Blue's" echoing in my head. Guys in grubby white suits and loafers with no socks driving Italian sports cars. An attaché case full of Pattadese. Big ones, small ones, all destained for the street of America.
Whoa, I gotta stop watching old Miami Vice reruns!
Carl.
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I like opinels and friction folders, they are a strong, reliable design. I carried for a few years a no2 on my work keychain, and it did more than i could ask, i had a no8 as edc for a while, and an 8 and a 12 in the kitchen, plus a 9 in a drawer. But no opinel can drive the peanut out of my pocket
@Jack: the zip-in liner is a great example of things that sell that don't work but that satisfy ill-informed consumer perception of need. Another example is knobbie tires on low-end mountain bikes. 90% of those bikes never get ridden off road but consumers like the knobbie tires because they look grippier, even though they actually provide much less traction on pavement. I worked in product management for awhile and the really evil insight was that product demonstration that triggered purchasing was entirely unrelated to actual function of the product. Impossible to sell the virtue of an old fashion lock ring compared to the "obviously" better and newer thumstuds and screwed pivots. (shrug)
@Will: I'm a huge fan of thin too. I like my Buck 500 and better, my Schrade 5OT for that reason. Neither of them have the convex wonder of the Opinel blade though. At least the Opinel makes up for it in low weight. Also, you can thin an Opinel easily with a sanding block. This #10 is much, much more pocketable than the Buck 110 (which is flat).
Buck 110 and Opinel #10 by Pinnah, on Flickr
@Will: I'm a huge fan of thin too. I like my Buck 500 and better, my Schrade 5OT for that reason. Neither of them have the convex wonder of the Opinel blade though. At least the Opinel makes up for it in low weight. Also, you can thin an Opinel easily with a sanding block. This #10 is much, much more pocketable than the Buck 110 (which is flat).
Buck 110 and Opinel #10 by Pinnah, on Flickr
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Love the Opinel.
Got a Svord in the plastic..... not a fan. I should have bought one in wood. I'm thinking about giving this one away or maybe pulling a stiflyer on it. His "silk purse" looks like a great little project.
Got a Svord in the plastic..... not a fan. I should have bought one in wood. I'm thinking about giving this one away or maybe pulling a stiflyer on it. His "silk purse" looks like a great little project.
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Carl,
last week I emailed the knifemaker who made your resolza and I was joking with him about acting as an export agent
Yet, I don't think you would see white suits and sports car; this is pretty much how the Sardinian Connection would look like:
Fausto
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A great example my friend. I'm not even a cyclist and I can see that, it's obvious, and something that irritates the heck out of me!
Jack
Carl,
last week I emailed the knifemaker who made your resolza and I was joking with him about acting as an export agent
Yet, I don't think you would see white suits and sports car; this is pretty much how the Sardinian Connection would look like:
Fausto
Whoa, Fausto! That guy looks like the one you don't even think of double crossing.
Maybe he'd make you vanish in the rugged hills of the country side. Carl.
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I gave up carrying an Opinel the second time it came open in my pocket and got my blood all over everything. Call me fussy; I wont carry a tool that attacks me.
Thats why Ill have no truck with friction folders. When they are new and competently done they may work well enough. But by its nature new is a temporary condition. Its too easy to not pay attention to decreasing friction. Suddenly there I am with blood in my pockets again.
Seems to me it is better to avoid the issue entirely.
I like that newfangled, high-tech back spring.
Thats why Ill have no truck with friction folders. When they are new and competently done they may work well enough. But by its nature new is a temporary condition. Its too easy to not pay attention to decreasing friction. Suddenly there I am with blood in my pockets again.
Seems to me it is better to avoid the issue entirely.
I like that newfangled, high-tech back spring.
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Not to go geopolitical here or anything but if I woke up one day and had to give up my slip joints for another it would be a frame lock, liner lock, lock back or maybe a fixed but it would definitely not be a ring lock or a friction lock. Sorry guys, I could write an entire disortation on why but just my personal preference. Sometimes just because it has been around for maybe a couple of thousand years does not make it good. BTW, I do own several of them.
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I think friction folders are pretty good knives and certainly can be quite functional and safe as well. However, best is a very subjective term unless you look at a specific criterion. I feel like the ultimate traditional knife is the one you use the most. It is the knife that accompanies you in your day to day adventures. Whether that be a 2000 year old design or a newer sak I think they can be an individuals ultimate knife. For me I really enjoy a single bladed trapper style knife, and it is my ultimate
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Carl,
last week I emailed the knifemaker who made your resolza and I was joking with him about acting as an export agent
Yet, I don't think you would see white suits and sports car; this is pretty much how the Sardinian Connection would look like:
Fausto
I would buy a knife from that man. I would not crack wise with him however, or surely he'd crack my jaw, young and spry though I am.
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