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The weekend survival challenge?

Discussion in 'Wilderness & Survival Skills' started by kgd, Mar 6, 2020.

  1. kgd


    Feb 28, 2007
    Alright, I need as much as anybody for motivation in survival.

    This week we did the prepper thing. Went through the pantry supplies and assessed, what would happen if we were coved-19 quarentined for 2 weeks. Do we have what we need? Answer was no. Pantry was a little slim. Our keto-diet has made us pair down and get rid of most of the carb staples that preppers usually carry. Solution - keto-to-the-max. 8 lbs coconut oil, 6 lbs ghee, 15 lbs fresh beef ground which I dutifully fried up and dehydrated and all fit in a large ziplock bag, 24 canned tomatoes, 2 L of olives, 12 cans salmon, 24 cans tuna, 18 cans chicken, some canned greenbeans plus all the freezer veggies that may or may not be viable. 60 gals potable water - check. Meds, first aid kit. Check. I think we are clear for food rations.

    This weekend, maybe a little sun tomorrow and I'm hoping to go for a walk and play a little primitive fire. Been awhile since I did any kind of bowdrill. This is way less practical than prepper week, but still its a weekend and we got some survival training to do.

    What are you going to do to enhance your chance this weekend?
    1AbominAble1 likes this.
  2. kgd


    Feb 28, 2007
    The bowdrill practice worked. It was a great day!

    Brian Andrews (Off the Map Outfitters) Terrasaur
    This one is 4", O1 steel and natural canvas micarta scales. I broke the tip a few years ago (it was my fault and total abuse) but I loved the handle so much on this one that I re-profiled it into a spearpoint. My first attempt with diamond stones didn't turn out so well and the knife was retired for a few years. Then I bought a Ken Onion Workshop belt grinder and was able to finish off the knife to where I wanted it. Now its a great bushy-user!


    WILLIAM.M, taldesta, LG&M and 2 others like this.
  3. Mikel_24


    Sep 19, 2007
    Not truly familiar with the KETO diet... for what I see in your shopping list you are loaded with protein and fat and getting rid of carbohidrates... I know some bodybuilders follow it to sheed weigh as it facilitates the consumption of body fat. Some people not into bodybuilding do it just to loose a few (or a lot) of kg...

    But what is the direct benefit for non-bodybuilders-who-are-already-close-to-their-ideal-weight? I mean, you got to be doing this for one or several reasons, right? Legit question, I am curious.:)

  4. stabman

    stabman Gold Member Gold Member

    Sep 17, 2007
    We're good for about 2 weeks right now.
    Lots of carbs and whey protein. :)
    Vitamins and fiber supplements as well.
    Adding other foods along the way, but damn, food is expensive these days! :eek:
  5. allenC


    Jun 18, 2000
    You can easily survive for 2 weeks with just 2 jars of peanut butter, 2 jars of jelly, and 2 loaves of bread.
    And lots of drinking water.
    Plainsman likes this.
  6. kgd


    Feb 28, 2007
    Hello Mikel, good questions. I will try to answer them somewhat briefly but it can't be done in a simple sentence or two. I realize this gets a bit technical so for others read only if you are interested. I will go into lecture mode now :)

    Yes, keto folks largely forgo carbs (although you can't ever eliminate any macro-nutrient; we try to keep it to around 25 g per day for a true keto or in a low carb diet, closer to what I actually follow, we keep the total daily carb intake to <50 g/day). There used to be thinking, even incorrectly reported in older biochemistry textbooks, that the brain can only use glucose as a fuel. It turns out this is not true. The brain most readily uses glucose but it can also use ketone-bodies produced by the liver in the absence of regular carbohydrate intake. In addition, the body can de novo synthesize glucose from proteins and fats when it needs to and supply the brain that way as well. That is the basis of the weight loss, your body converting fat stores into keto-bodies as a supplement to your daily intake. You also circumvent the glucose-insulin-fat deposition endocrine pathway that leads the fat accumulation by keeping insulin at low levels throughout the day.

    Your other question pertains to the health reasons for going keto.... Weight loss is one and a big reason I started it. I went from 5'10" 250 lbs at my peak weight to 175 lbs (I haven't lost any height :) ). Not all of that weight loss was from going keto. In fact the first 50 lbs was based on your standard low fat, calorie restricted diet plus a lot of exercise. I started on treadmill walking and worked my way over 3 months to jogging, then I was doing 5 km runs. This took all occured over about 5 years. At one point I became a bit addicted to running and was running 5 km daily with a 10km run every weekend. Its not that much for a real runner, but prior to that I was a couch potato for the most part. However, despite very disciplined calorie restriction and running like a madman I couldn't ever plunge my weight below 200 lbs. Frustratingly so, I also was having issues with high blood pressure and having difficulty keeping that in control. Doc kept upping my meds to control the blood pressure, it was getting to the point where I was frequently experiencing dizzy spells due to the meds and even though I felt like I had changed my life, diet and exercise the blood pressure problem was beginning to take over my life. Plus I was miserable, keeping my daily calorie intake to between 1800-2000 cal and hating every meal that I had to shovel into my mouth, as infrequent as those meals seemed. Life wasn't good for me. I had skinnier pants and looked better but I wasn't happy.

    That is when I went to low carb/keto diet. It really sucks when you first start it! You experience what is called the keto flu which is basically your body having to learn how to make ketone bodies to fuel yourself in the absence of glucose. In technical terms, it takes about a week for your liver to synthesize the enzymes necessary to manufacture ketone bodies and re-adjust your metabolism. Most people lose this capacity because of the years and decades of eating carbohydrates multiple times per day and as a result your body adapts to a high carb load by not synthesizing liver proteins that aren't needed. After the adjustment period however you are good to go. After the switch I found I started losing weight again and did so pretty rapidly. At first, the weight loss is really body water rather than fat. When you use up your glycogen reserves this results in loss of body water. This occurs because glycogen (the type of carbohydrate the human body stores analogous to fat) holds 5 x its weight in water. So as you burn up that in-body carbohydrate store you literally pee out the water that was absorbed onto those molecules. After that you begin losing body fat at a more regular rate. I bottomed out and stalled at 175 lbs which seems like a good weight for me. On the IBI, I'm still slightly overweight (right on the cusp of normal) but hey I'm a 50 year old guy and always been a little bigger boned.

    Health benefits. So at first, when I was peeing weight off, my blood pressure dropped right down. So much so, that I had to get off blood pressure meds because my blood pressure was too low. In part this was because the loss of body water was acting in the same way that a water pill does. I was super psyched about that (being off the meds), but it didn't last that long. Eventually, when I reached stable body weight, my blood pressure crept up again. Not as bad as when I went on meds in the first place but it was going in the wrong direction. I was able to get it under control at a much lower med dose though and it has been stable/normal since that med adjustment phase. Some people get off blood pressure meds permanently on the keto diet but unfortunately I am not one of them. Still, my dosage is much lower now and I don't have the side effects that I used to. Other therapeutic uses for the keto-diet are for Type II diabetes and it also seems to help with reducing seizures associated with epilepsy.

    I can get into more technical details about mechanisms and also recent scientific literature challenging the heart-saturated fat linkage but that starts to segway and it becomes a little more indirect from my personal experience and choices which is what the question was about. As for my own technical knowledge, I am a biologist with a PhD (a university prof) but not in the medical field. I did teach human physiology at one point but my research specialty is directed towards wildlife toxicology rather than medicine. Before I started the diet my wife made me do a full literature review of the peer review literature to consider the diet before going on it. My own doctor didn't believe most of it but she has certainly been witness to my changing health stats and we're keeping an eye on my bloodwork, kidney function and other metrics. My doc actually took one of my classes during her undergrad so we have a bit of a professional candor. I think she mostly thinks I'm arrogant and full of shit, but humors me by reading review papers that I bring to her and we chat about them versus how it differs from best practice advice for medicine today. There is most definitely a shift going on in the prevailing opinions about human nutrition that is upsetting standard paradigms. It is taking society to adjust and there are also some unknowns about the keto-diet.

    Sorry - that was a long post, but you asked for it! I don't necessarily recommend anybody changing their diet on my word. Do you own research, consult with professionals and come a decision about what works for you. This is only what worked for me and I'm not going to change what isn't broken.

  7. kgd


    Feb 28, 2007
    Grocery stores are emptying out in our little town Stabman! I think it will get worse in the next two weeks as more panic sets in, border shut down and supply chain interruptions happen. However, the knot in the system should lessen a little after that and things will dribble to normal. Prevailing epidemiological modelling suggests we wont' peak in numbers in N. A. for another 150-180 days. This is one ride that will go on for awhile. Hopefully they achieve the 'flatten the curve' ideal case
  8. stabman

    stabman Gold Member Gold Member

    Sep 17, 2007
    I think you're right about the next couple of weeks...the panic level has been ramping up fast for sure.
    Going to have to just do opportunistic shopping along the way for things to supplement while the run on supplies keeps going. Luckily I don't need to get everything at once, so I can just leave the store if the lines are like they have been, or the selection sucks.
  9. Mikel_24


    Sep 19, 2007
    Thanks a lot Ken! That was actually a much more detailed explanation than what I was expecting, but it was a great read. I fully understand why you do it and how difficult it is in todays grocery shops to stick to this almost-no-carbohydrates way of thinking.

    Not to that extent by any means but I have been trying to avoid all unnecesary sugar (be it in sugar format or as an additive on other processed foods) and not by weight loss reasons (since I am 173cm and 75kg, used to be arround 65-67kg but started lifting weights SERIOUSLY so I put on some muscle), but mainly for health.

    I will investigate a bit more and see how I could get into a semi-keto diet...

    Thanks! Mikel

    PD: Regarding the Coronavirus outbreak... well, our Goverment (Spain) just dictated confinment for everyone from now on (ala Italy a couple weeks ago). Today I went to do some shopping (regular shopping, nothing end-of-the-world oriented) and supermarkets are raided.... damn!
  10. stabman

    stabman Gold Member Gold Member

    Sep 17, 2007
    Had to go to three stores in order to get a bag of rice today.
    At Walmart, the entire toilet paper aisle was empty of toilet paper, and filled instead with garbage cans and totes (guess in 2020 the new trend is to poop in a bucket?). Luckily I didn't need to buy any, but it's really dumb.

    Also not at Walmart:
    -Peanut butter almost all gone
    -Rubbing alcohol
    -Hand sanitizer

    They still have whey protein powder and vitamins, but when it comes to most food items and paper products, damn.
    One of the grocery stores I went to had almost no meat, and absolutely no chicken at all.

    Crazy times.
  11. JD Mandrell

    JD Mandrell

    Apr 20, 2001
    My survival trapping skills have come in handy during COVID 19.

    kgd, 1AbominAble1 and Mikel_24 like this.
  12. Mikel_24


    Sep 19, 2007
    I would suggest you use the appropiate lure for toilet paper (fresh smelly turd maybe?), as it seems scarce nowadays... THAT would be a catch to be proud off....

    kgd, 1AbominAble1 and JD Mandrell like this.
  13. bore


    May 20, 2015
    No shit:)
    kgd likes this.


    Apr 14, 2006
    What? No hand drill? And when did you dye your hair? :)

    kgd likes this.
  15. stabman

    stabman Gold Member Gold Member

    Sep 17, 2007
    Well, in Windsor they went and bought all the handguns, "tactical" rifles and ammunition.
    Crazy times. :eek:

    Gun store closing tomorrow because they've sold practically their entire inventory.
  16. kgd


    Feb 28, 2007
    Good seeing you Doc!
  17. kgd


    Feb 28, 2007
    So we organized and logged our pantry some of it going into big storage bins as they are needed in more difficult circumstances. Some of it left on shelves for current use. We also pressure canned a bunch of soup and stews including 6 quarts of chicken soup and 32 half quarts of beef and veggie stew. The pressure canned items have a shelf life of 4 years and don't require power to keep them preserved.

    Apart from that we are just trying to be extra conscious of FIFO-eating through the refrigerator and freezer contents and trying not to let anything go to waste. A soup bag sees a bunch of the cut out parts like broccoli stems and bones go into and stored in freezer for later broth and stock making. Its amazing how much food waste you can cut down when you really start to watch out for it.

    We've been also servicing the supply needs of our daughter who is on self quarantine owing to a person with a fever coming into her work and causing everyone to go into self-shelter and my parents that live in two different homes both of home are high risk due to the age bracket.

    I notice that distribution networks are becoming better controlled now. Costco has instituted a person capacity limit and they keep people waiting at distance using pallets on the ground as guideline markers. They moved out most of the non-essential stuff like jewelry so they can use that space for essentials instead. They have also been really good at not raising prices and I'm not seeing attempts at hoarding like the previous weeks. These are all good signs of acclimation of the population to the situation. Makes me glad we live in the place we do.
    Mikel_24 and stabman like this.
  18. stabman

    stabman Gold Member Gold Member

    Sep 17, 2007
    Yes, things are returning to more normal...you can buy toilet paper in a grocery store as of today, and for a sale price at that! :eek:
    Certain goods like meat, paper products and rice are being rationed though as to how much you can buy, as you noted too, which shows why having a decent supply of the stuff you normally use is a good idea. Right now you can't buy 30 pounds of chicken, but if you already have some at home, you can easily buy enough now to keep things going.
    kgd likes this.
  19. Mikel_24


    Sep 19, 2007
    I THINK that as soon as the population observes that the supply chain is still working and that there will be no shortage of esentials in the long run... they stop stocking heavily on items. Stock management requires room for it and a certain discipline that not everyone has. Besides, unless you take it seriously, you risk stocking up on some things and forgetting about other esentials..., which means that you will not be prepared anyways.

    kgd likes this.
  20. FoxRedVave


    Apr 23, 2020
    Just #stayathome

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