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Well, yeah I see where you are coming from there's a line there for sure.
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The weight debate: how heavy are your knives?
- Thread starter peripatew
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Well, yeah I see where you are coming from there's a line there for sure.
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I do mostly day hikes and I have been hiking with a Benchmade 940 clipped inside my hat. It's almost 4 inches of blade with aluminum handles and what's it weigh, about 4 ounces or so. Fortunately for my head, it seems to have a strong detent.
When I carry a pack, I have thrown a Mission Beta-titanium blade in the pack, just in case. Can't remember the model. It's the bowie with about a 6 inch blade and no scales on the handle. With the kydex sheath, it's still quite light but could handle some chopping.
I guess I don't qualify for the ultra-lite club but at least I am circumcised.
When I carry a pack, I have thrown a Mission Beta-titanium blade in the pack, just in case. Can't remember the model. It's the bowie with about a 6 inch blade and no scales on the handle. With the kydex sheath, it's still quite light but could handle some chopping.
I guess I don't qualify for the ultra-lite club but at least I am circumcised.
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for backpacking i'll choose a hidden-tang scandi over a full-tang brkt because of weight - so i do pay attention to ounces but not fractions of ounces. i'll choose a 3.5 ounce knife over a 5.5 ounce knife - and, yes, I have a scale to make the decision. Two ounces don't sound like much - but two ounces here, two ounces there... shave off a couple ounces in eight different places and you're a pound lighter.
i've just humped too many heavy loads over too much elevation not to reconsider my lack of attention to weight when backpacking.
i've just humped too many heavy loads over too much elevation not to reconsider my lack of attention to weight when backpacking.
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Yeah, I agree that cutting fractions of ounces is pretty silly. I don't carry enough gadgets to shave an appreciable amount of weight off my pack that way.
Liam Ryan said it best earlier:
"But I have to wonder, if they are that concerned about half an ounce, how many shave off all their body hair and get circumcised before going on a hike? Do you really need all your teeth? I never used my baby toes anyway!"
Liam Ryan said it best earlier:
"But I have to wonder, if they are that concerned about half an ounce, how many shave off all their body hair and get circumcised before going on a hike? Do you really need all your teeth? I never used my baby toes anyway!"
Some people take anything to an extreme.
Personaly my gear loadout has always been mission or trip exclusive and is decided by a fair amount of pre trip planning.
However I don't pay a ;ot of attention to weight. For example my pack is a swiss military alpine rucksack, considerably heavier than any ultralight pack out there, but it will hold up far longer and is less likely to fail in the bush.
I generaly carry a 5 inch bladed knife with me on the belt. This would be either my Koyote mwde wilderness model 1, my Hi R-10 (heavier than the Koyote knife) or my old pilots survival knife.
On the pack I carry either a hatchet or my M-43 kukri. I also carry a heavy duty folder in the pack as a backup knife. On long trips I'll even sometimes carry a folding shovel.
I carry what I believe through a lot of experience to be needed for a trip and little else.
I never scrimp on those articles of equipment that would make the biggest difference in a survival situation, If someone was stranded with just a micra tool in a serious outdoor emergency their ability to survive would be seriously hampered.
Personaly my gear loadout has always been mission or trip exclusive and is decided by a fair amount of pre trip planning.
However I don't pay a ;ot of attention to weight. For example my pack is a swiss military alpine rucksack, considerably heavier than any ultralight pack out there, but it will hold up far longer and is less likely to fail in the bush.
I generaly carry a 5 inch bladed knife with me on the belt. This would be either my Koyote mwde wilderness model 1, my Hi R-10 (heavier than the Koyote knife) or my old pilots survival knife.
On the pack I carry either a hatchet or my M-43 kukri. I also carry a heavy duty folder in the pack as a backup knife. On long trips I'll even sometimes carry a folding shovel.
I carry what I believe through a lot of experience to be needed for a trip and little else.
I never scrimp on those articles of equipment that would make the biggest difference in a survival situation, If someone was stranded with just a micra tool in a serious outdoor emergency their ability to survive would be seriously hampered.
You make a good point here. I don't take the kitchen sink, but got caught once at 14,000 ft. unprepared. I swore that would never happen again, and it hasn't. Now I have what I need for my wife and I to survive, and our kids also. Some of the things that I carry won't be used if everything goes right, and I'm fine with that. I always welcome the exercise.
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The more I walk the less I carry these days. I walked and cycle toured for years without being too concerned with weight but since joining up with my good adventure buddy JT we tend to de-brief the gear we've carried after each trek and bounce a gear-list spreadsheet back and forth by email in the weeks before we leave. This has led to a natural trimming of excess and superflous gear.
I take the spyderco Military with me in the bush and it's weight/performance ratio is a factor.
I stopped carrying a fixed blade 2 years ago - but would still use one on a kayaking trip or a 'walk in and set up base camp' style trip.
It's worth becoming a bit of a weight weenie I reckon - the enjoyment factor of trips goes up in relation to less weight carried. Not sure I'd ever fall into the ultra-light category however; it's interesting how when you meet one of these folk on the trail they seem to be of a type.
I take the spyderco Military with me in the bush and it's weight/performance ratio is a factor.
I stopped carrying a fixed blade 2 years ago - but would still use one on a kayaking trip or a 'walk in and set up base camp' style trip.
It's worth becoming a bit of a weight weenie I reckon - the enjoyment factor of trips goes up in relation to less weight carried. Not sure I'd ever fall into the ultra-light category however; it's interesting how when you meet one of these folk on the trail they seem to be of a type.
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I do care about the weight of my knives, and it becomes an intrinsic consideration along with form, function, activity involved, etc, etc. That is why the whole "one knife only" concept makes absolutely no sense to my way of thinking. There is a place for big heavy knives, and a place for small lightweight thin knives, machetes and the rest. The heavy egress knife that I carry in my airplane is not the knife I choose for running the mountain trails.
There are many preconceived ideas out there that associate ultra-light backpackers with a contrary mentality about a number of equipment choices as if it involved their ethics and political persuasions. Ultra-light backpackers just simply prefer to make ultra-light choices. Simple enough, in most cases. As an ultra-light backpacker, I choose to carry a lightweight fixed-blade on the trail. Some of my partners carry only lightweight folders. Some are politically liberal, some are politically conservative, or in-between. To stereotype ultra-light backpackers as "knife haters" has no validity whatsoever in my experience. I have backpacked thousands of miles with ultra-light backpackers and honestly never met a knife hater on the trail. Generally, "knife haters" are people who have had little positive exposure to knives. Seems they might have some preconceived ideas, too.
Successful 'long-distance' backpacking is about managing ounces, not pounds. If you are just going out a few miles with a pack, it doesn't really matter. I even haul a good-sized lawn chair 5-miles back into one of my favorite fishing lakes. On the long trails, excessive pounds can get you hurt - not to mention the lost needed calories burned and the sore muscles.
In the mountains where we live (we live right smack on the edge of the largest wilderness area in the state. Last house on the road to have electricity), there is a considerable elevation difference between our back 300 acres, and the front acreage. If I walk down the mountain to the lower property, I'm truly thinkin' "lightweight" knife. Though I run my tredmill almost everyday, hauling a big heavy knife back up that hill isn't my idea of fun. Nor, is it necessary. Carrying a heavier knife in one of the saddle bags is fine if I choose to ride. "Best all-around" in this country would be a 4" blade...sort of like 7 X 35 or 8 X 30 binoculars.
There are many preconceived ideas out there that associate ultra-light backpackers with a contrary mentality about a number of equipment choices as if it involved their ethics and political persuasions. Ultra-light backpackers just simply prefer to make ultra-light choices. Simple enough, in most cases. As an ultra-light backpacker, I choose to carry a lightweight fixed-blade on the trail. Some of my partners carry only lightweight folders. Some are politically liberal, some are politically conservative, or in-between. To stereotype ultra-light backpackers as "knife haters" has no validity whatsoever in my experience. I have backpacked thousands of miles with ultra-light backpackers and honestly never met a knife hater on the trail. Generally, "knife haters" are people who have had little positive exposure to knives. Seems they might have some preconceived ideas, too.
Successful 'long-distance' backpacking is about managing ounces, not pounds. If you are just going out a few miles with a pack, it doesn't really matter. I even haul a good-sized lawn chair 5-miles back into one of my favorite fishing lakes. On the long trails, excessive pounds can get you hurt - not to mention the lost needed calories burned and the sore muscles. In the mountains where we live (we live right smack on the edge of the largest wilderness area in the state. Last house on the road to have electricity), there is a considerable elevation difference between our back 300 acres, and the front acreage. If I walk down the mountain to the lower property, I'm truly thinkin' "lightweight" knife. Though I run my tredmill almost everyday, hauling a big heavy knife back up that hill isn't my idea of fun. Nor, is it necessary. Carrying a heavier knife in one of the saddle bags is fine if I choose to ride. "Best all-around" in this country would be a 4" blade...sort of like 7 X 35 or 8 X 30 binoculars.
I have a forged Olson 52100 hunter (5") that weighs around 18 oz., partly because of the outstanding heavy-duty sheath. It is an excellent knife and I really like it but when preparing for a backpack I always bear in mind that my GB Mini hatchet weighs 12.8 oz. I could bring the GB Mini and a very small/light knife for the same total weight as just the Olson.
On longer trips or where the load from other gear is heavy, I definitely consider the weight of a knife before taking it along.
DancesWithKnives
On longer trips or where the load from other gear is heavy, I definitely consider the weight of a knife before taking it along.
DancesWithKnives
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- Dec 10, 2007
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I'm with foxy on this in that i'm a Busse fan so weight comes with that.
This reminds me of a conversation I had with a guy recently. I was buying a lightweight shell for carrying in my pocket in case it showers or the wind picks up. Was also thinking I could wear it running. So I look at the jackets try a few on and select the one I want. The salesman comes up gives me a bit of chat then suggest I might try another jacket. I mention i've already tried it and the fit just didn't feel as good. He then argues but it weighs 3.5 oz against the one I like which weighs 4 oz.
We discuss it for a further 10mins at which point I try pointing out that being 6'4'' and weighing 220lbs i'm not really going to notice the weight difference and if I feel that bad about carrying 0.5 of an oz then i'll make sure to have an extra long pee before I wear my jacket. Eventually he saw my point and the funny side.
I don't look at a heavy pack and think it's some some sort of machismo challenge. I look at every piece of kit I buy and if I buy it then the weight is justified. For me there will be no drilling holes in stuff to make it lighter, swapping scales for para-cord or other mental antics.
Knives I carry:
CGFBM about 30oz
SAR5 about 10oz
This reminds me of a conversation I had with a guy recently. I was buying a lightweight shell for carrying in my pocket in case it showers or the wind picks up. Was also thinking I could wear it running. So I look at the jackets try a few on and select the one I want. The salesman comes up gives me a bit of chat then suggest I might try another jacket. I mention i've already tried it and the fit just didn't feel as good. He then argues but it weighs 3.5 oz against the one I like which weighs 4 oz.
We discuss it for a further 10mins at which point I try pointing out that being 6'4'' and weighing 220lbs i'm not really going to notice the weight difference and if I feel that bad about carrying 0.5 of an oz then i'll make sure to have an extra long pee before I wear my jacket. Eventually he saw my point and the funny side.
I don't look at a heavy pack and think it's some some sort of machismo challenge. I look at every piece of kit I buy and if I buy it then the weight is justified. For me there will be no drilling holes in stuff to make it lighter, swapping scales for para-cord or other mental antics.
Knives I carry:
CGFBM about 30oz
SAR5 about 10oz
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I could lose about 20 or so pounds off the middle before I start cutting my toothbrush in half too, maybe that's why I can't get it.
Bein a fat person that was sort of a motivation for lightening up the pack. I couldn't get the 20 lbs off me as fast as I could get it out of the pack.
But also remember, some of the people that are doing the things you are talking about, the more extreme things as far as weight are thru hikers. That's a whole difft thing really and where stuff like toothbrushes and knife scales might be worth thinking about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thru-hiking
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To answer the original question: weight isn't a primary consideration unless it relates to the function of the tool. For instance a 3 ounce kukri would be about useless.
I like durable gear. Laugh all you want, when the bottom falls out of your 3.5 ounce pack, your stuff won't be riding in my "bruiser" the rest of the way.
The key to understanding ultralight backpackers seems to be that there are two kinds. One for whom backpacking is the sport, and the other where the ultralight is the sport. The two act very differently.
While it certainly doesn't describe all ultralighters, but there does seem to be a good portion who seem to think being physically weak is a virtue (taken from experience with ultralighters I've run into. Many look at me with derision because I can deadlift over 500 pounds. Pipe cleaner arms do not impress).
I like durable gear. Laugh all you want, when the bottom falls out of your 3.5 ounce pack, your stuff won't be riding in my "bruiser" the rest of the way.
The key to understanding ultralight backpackers seems to be that there are two kinds. One for whom backpacking is the sport, and the other where the ultralight is the sport. The two act very differently.
And before anyone accuses me of wanting to carry 80 pound packs, this is exactly how I cut weight. Ultralighters like to laugh at me because I like bombproof gear, but I get a chuckle at just how much more stuff they carry that I don't.
:thumbup: Yeah, that's the problem with the ultralight crowd. If they can't handle the weight, perhaps they should work out a little, or just stay home.
While it certainly doesn't describe all ultralighters, but there does seem to be a good portion who seem to think being physically weak is a virtue (taken from experience with ultralighters I've run into. Many look at me with derision because I can deadlift over 500 pounds. Pipe cleaner arms do not impress).
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If I'm backpacking with my son, we are not usually trying to cover a lot of ground. So, I may take a few heavy knives and knife weight is not really a concern. If I'm fast packing with the guys, I may just take one lighter knife(for me). Something like a Bravo 1 or Scrap Yard Mutt. So, I guess it depends on the outing whether knife weight is a concern at all.
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I might have heavier stuff but I guarantee I've got a less stuff that those guys. And I'm not hauling my own fecal matter out of the woods when I'm done, either. That super-ultralight stuff is just masturbatory. I get wanting to shave your weight, that's just common sense. But many of those guys seem to 'cross the line' into absurdity.
And I really don't care even slightly what the guy next to me wants to do. If he wants to trim the handle off his toothbrush and take the scales off his SAK, more power to him. It's his junk and his feet hauling it. Same with the opposite siding of the coin, for the guy with the kitchen sink.
But I don't tolerate the sideways glances and self-righteousness on the trail, just because my pack is canvas instead of silnylon or that I've got a decent blade on my hip.
And I really don't care even slightly what the guy next to me wants to do. If he wants to trim the handle off his toothbrush and take the scales off his SAK, more power to him. It's his junk and his feet hauling it. Same with the opposite siding of the coin, for the guy with the kitchen sink.
But I don't tolerate the sideways glances and self-righteousness on the trail, just because my pack is canvas instead of silnylon or that I've got a decent blade on my hip.
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As I only pack what I need, I've never bothered to weigh it.
When the day comes that age or injury sees me unable to comfortably carry what I currently do, then I'll look into lighter alternatives for what I am currently carrying.
Kind regards
Mick
When the day comes that age or injury sees me unable to comfortably carry what I currently do, then I'll look into lighter alternatives for what I am currently carrying.
Kind regards
Mick