The Whole Picture...The Whole Story: Ergo Knife Dimensions

[Andy Prisco]

Early today, a thread began on the question of dimension differences between the new E models as compared to their like named counterparts. Both Jerry Busse and I responded to questions that were text only.

Shortly thereafter, a picture was uploaded which in Busse Combat's and this team-member's view, misrepresented the facts, as it was only a PARTIAL picture of the two models next to eachother....below are two pictures which should clear any confusion immediately.

This picture illustrates the virtually identical overall length of the SHII and the new SH-E. Notice the slightly longer handle on the SH-E.

This next picture matches the ricassos and choils of the two knives to compare blade length...the SHII is less than 1/2 inch longer than the SH-E in blade length...look at the back of the SH-E handle however....it is less than 1/2 inch longer than the SHII handle.

We are talking about a HALF OF AN INCH here from the front end and put on the back end...let's all relax, have a a piece of cake, and know that Busse Combat has carefully thought this through.

The new E series has been an overwhelming success and reports from the field have validated this truth time and time again.


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Andy Prisco, Manager
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[This message has been edited by Andy Prisco (edited 10-22-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Andy Prisco (edited 10-22-2000).]

 

[muzzleup]

Andy, no argument from me! I think that Jerry and you have all to good ideas about the design of the E's. BTW Greg has just finished up my Blade-O-Leer and the picture looks very cool. Have you been wearing yours much.

and a BIG BOOOOM to you!


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Ron,
Bremerton, Washington

 

[tallpaul]

What do you mean partial picture... about 2/3's of the handle and ALL OF THE BLADE AREA's were shown side by side.The court ruling that was stated and used by Jerry states from the edge of the handle out which was clearly shown. Also a knife is usually bought by/for bladelength which was clearly shown,not Butt size, If it (the picture) was wrong then you would not have deleted the thread,maybe locked it with an editorial comment or added these pictures there,but not deleted it. Is a forum to be for discussion otherwise it is just an ad is it not? Maybe a crude way to say it is a guy that likes a big chest is not as happy with a smaller chest and a bigger butt, it is Not the same.

By the way I still love the products and believe in them, they are truly great...that was not the issue nor the point (pun intended )

Bye the way, From the crinkle finish,handles and rivits it seems that maybe the newer SH's as in your photo were made smaller too ?... not just the E's

[This message has been edited by tallpaul (edited 10-22-2000).]

 

[Marion David Poff]

I have to say, this act of deletion is so insanely disappointing.

A gentleman comes to this Forum.

Is polite in asking his question.

Posts an image to illustrate his point.

And his post gets deleted.

Please explain to me how this deletion represents reasonable behaviour.

It is cool and all, that the overall length is the same, but if I remember correctly from the deleted post, his issue had nothing to do with the overall length.

If this sort of action is to be expected, the question that naturally presents itself is....

Who is afraid of what?

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Thank you,
Marion David Poff aka Eye, Cd'A ID, USA mdpoff@hotmail.com

>>--->Bill Siegle Custom Knives<---<<
-http://www.geocities.com/siegleknives-

Talonite Resource Page, nearly exhaustive!!

Fire Page, metal match sources and index of information.

"We will either find a way, or make one." Hannibal, 210 B.C.

 

[volvi]

Hi Andy,
Thanks for posting this new picture of a new SH-E next to a SHII. How about posting a photo of the new BM-E next to a January 2000 BM?

I also think it was wrong to totally delete the previous thread. By doing so you have demonstrated that you use this forum for your personal gain, and are not moderating a neutral discussion forum. Anything that may pose a threat to your sales gets the axe, eh? The other picture clearly was simply a comparison of the blade sizes, and didn't warrant you freaking out and deleting the whole post. I agree with Tall Paul, and happen to love Busse Combat's products, by the way.

 

[Marion David Poff]

Thought I would add this to the discussion....

How is it misrepresenting the facts when a man asks about the blade, and posts an image of the blade to support his question?

I would quote from the thread, for clarity, but it seems that it has been DELETED.

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Thank you,
Marion David Poff aka Eye, Cd'A ID, USA mdpoff@hotmail.com

>>--->Bill Siegle Custom Knives<---<<
-http://www.geocities.com/siegleknives-

Talonite Resource Page, nearly exhaustive!!

Fire Page, metal match sources and index of information.

"We will either find a way, or make one." Hannibal, 210 B.C.

 

[Marion David Poff]

Both Jerry Busse and I responded to questions that were text only.

What is the signifigance of 'text only'

Shortly thereafter, a picture was uploaded which in Busse Combat's and this team-member's view, misrepresented the facts, as it was only a PARTIAL picture of the two models next to each other....

The question was about the blade. So, then, an image showing the blades would seem to be in order, or is the nuclear universe different?

below are two pictures which should clear any confusion immediately.

No, they don't clear it up, they are from an angle, and they lack a measurement reference such as a ruler. And, if it is so simple, then why did the thread get deleted?

This picture illustrates the virtually identical overall length of the SHII and the new SH-E. Notice the slightly longer handle on the SH-E.

A man asks about the blade, and gets an answer about the overall length, you have entered the Nuclear Zone.

We are talking about a HALF OF AN INCH here from the front end and put on the back end...

Sounds simple, but wait, a thread was deleted over these details. Closer investigation must be warranted. Let's start from the top. Motive, Oppurtunity, Method...

let's all relax,

I was relaxed, until the deletion.

have a a piece of cake,

No time for cake, a deletion has occured.

and know that Busse Combat has carefully thought this through.

"Thought this through...." the deletion?

The new E series has been an overwhelming success and reports from the field have validated this truth time and time again.

And how does this apply to the deletion?

-----------------------------

The above should be regarded with humour.

The thing that gets me is this. Once deletion is regarded as an apropriate response to a question, then we enter a phase where there is no reason to post, for at any time, someone with a code may take it into their head to delete.

And if this is such a simple thing, then why delete?

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Thank you,
Marion David Poff aka Eye, Cd'A ID, USA mdpoff@hotmail.com

>>--->Bill Siegle Custom Knives<---<<
-http://www.geocities.com/siegleknives-

Talonite Resource Page, nearly exhaustive!!

Fire Page, metal match sources and index of information.

"We will either find a way, or make one." Hannibal, 210 B.C.

 

[Jerry Busse]

Okay guys, before this turns into one of those ridiculous, time-consuming, Seinfeldian debates on word choice and first amendment rights, let me set the record straight. I asked Andy to remove Paul’s picture and to post the new ones I took, because I have no idea how to post a picture on the forum. I had Paul’s picture removed because it does not accurately represent the changes that were made and we did not want the consumer to be presented with unclear or misleading information. Our task as moderators is to present correct information to the consumer.

I know Paul and he is as honest as the day is long so I know that his Steel Heart II must be something different from the norm. I will call him in the morning to find out why there’s such a discrepancy in length. It could be that we made him a special one because of his Paul Bunyanesque stature. I won’t really know until I talk to him.


No great mystery. . . .no great conspiracy. . . . .no big news. .. .. . . Let’s let this thing die before it turns into something that it is not.

Your friend,

Jerry Busse


[This message has been edited by Jerry Busse (edited 10-23-2000).]

 

[tallpaul]

Jerry and fellow forumites, I would add to Jerry's comments since the other thread is gone... There were and are no accusations by me or Busse that I know of of conspirousy or misrepresentation of what these awesome blades can and do .... do. I never questioned that,nor will I. My question was simply on the blade length. Not upset over a purchase, or treatment by anybody connected with Busse at all. Past experiance has taught me that Busse is really hard for me to get ahold of and I really thought it easier to just post here. I don't feel ripped off at all, I was just startled and really curious. Oh and at this point Jerry nor anyone else from "team Busse" has contacted me by any means ( to have me post this comment etc...), I have not changed my question nor am I ashamed for asking. God Bless-paul

[This message has been edited by tallpaul (edited 10-23-2000).]

 

[Hoodoo]

Wow! I'm going to have to start skipping sleep or I will miss all the excitement!

If you guys keep talking about length and performance, we will have to give this forum an X rating.

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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I would have to side with Marion on the issue of deletion. If you think that someone is misrepresenting your product then simply removing the post doesn't remove the issue and usually just amplifies its importance as well as give off the impression of concealment and lots of other not so positive effects.

If the picture was misleading, then just note this in the thread, post the correct dimensions and a picture that shows the correct relationship. Once the questions are answered the thread would obviously die a natural death.

-Cliff

 

[X-Head]

Well, I really hesitated to get in the middle of this, since my dog's not in this fight and it us usually smarter to stay out of disagreements when they start to get heated. The reason I thought it necessary to add to this thread is this:

I never read the thread that got deleted, but I have read this one. I agree with Cliff that it is better to just respond to questions & inaccuracies then just let the thread die out on its own, but as to Andy or Jerry's motives, who can judge another man's heart? I think it is best to give these gentlemen the benfit of the doubt, especially since we have all known them to be trustworthy thus far, and honorable in their dealings. Why am I so confident that neither Andy nor Jerry were motivated by greed, profit, or a desire to hide the truth about any flaws in their products? Anyone seen the thread entitled, "Off-center blade on your Basic 9?" by Mark Schmitt? If not, go back to the Busse forum main page, because it's still there. Not deleted. Not even locked. Here's a thread that brings to light a problem with the handle alignment on some of the Basic 9's, to which Jerry responded, acknowledging the problem and offering to make it right. What more can you ask for? If Jerry or Andy were guilty of being motivated by the things that some of you have suggested, would they not have deleted this thread as well? In fact, the thread that was deleted had nothing to do with any flaws or mistakes, whereas Mark's thread did. If Andy or Jerry were guilty of trying to hide anything, Mark's thread wouldn't have lasted half a day. I don't know Jerry at all on a personal level, and I've never even met Andy. But these facts speak for themselves.

Don't be quick to accuse.
Even better, don't accuse.

Be slow to anger. Every time I have quickly angered over something, I have always said something I regretted later.

Perhaps deleting that thread was not the best thing to do in terms of what kind of impression it gives. I am certain, however, that their intentions were good--as I would assume the same about the rest of you here.

Just my $.02, FWIW. Thanks for reading.


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I DO NOT CHOOSE TO BE A COMMON MAN

"It is my right to be uncommon...if I can; I seek opportunity...not security. I do not wish to be a kept citizen, humbled and dulled by having the state look after me. I want to take the calculated risk; to dream and to build, to fail and to succeed. I refuse to barter incentive for a dole. I prefer the challenges of life to the guaranteed existence; the thrill of fulfillment to the stole calm of utopia. I will not trade freedom for beneficence nor my dignity for a handout. I will never cower before any master nor bend to any threat. It is my heritage to stand erect, proud, and unafraid; to think and act for myself; enjoy the benefits of my creations and to face the world boldly and say,
This I have done, and this is what it means to be an American."

--Dean Alfrange

 

[Uncle Screwtape]

Oh yeah? Bet my "blade" is bigger than all of yours!! (and my big brother can beat up your big brother!)

Affectionately yours,

Screwtape

 

You guys act like this forum is your God given right. It is a treat, a gift, an establishment set-up for people like us to find out about our favorite knives and even talk to the guys who make them with such loving care. To jump down any moderators throat about what they do with THEIR forum to me is a little disrespectful. This is not a democracy here. This is a privately owned and operated forum that is kept online by corporations. It is here because they provide it. You don;t like what they do with it??? Big deal! It's theirs, they can do what ever they want to with it. If Andy or Jerry decided they wanted to single out one of us and delete every post we make the only thing we could do is accept it. So quit complaining. They give us a fair ammount of room here and let us get away with some really stupid posts. But in the end this forum is a gift not a god given right or natural law. I am not likening Andy or Jerry to God but this is their forum. They are the reason it exists and they can do pretty much what they damn well please with it and the only thing we can do is cry and bitch like babies. that seems what some of us have chosen to do here. I mean the only thing you can really say is "fine then, well I'm not gonna buy any more Busse knives". Go ahead! the only thing you're doing is cheating yourself out of the finest damn knives in the world to satisfy your own childish pride. You can attack my words if you like. You can even attack me seeing as how some of our family here seem to think they have the super or superior intellect. But what I have said here is fact and you can't argue that. You may feel like this is your forum, sometimes it seems like that. And Everybody involved with this forum at an administrative capacity is interested in keeping us happy becuase they put this forum here for us. Did they do it to be self-sacrificing, maybe a little, but mostly is was to reach out to their customers and keep them informed and interested in their products. Basically as a service to customers and for advertisment. So leave them alone for deleting a post. Paul even said he is done so let it drop. I swear sometimes you guys are just looking for something to exercise your overactive imaginations and vocabularies. Nuf Said! For me anyway.

 

[commrick]

I am amazed at the issues that press someone's hot button.. When emotions get the better of you..STOP and regoup; emotions can't think - they react... Calm down and start to think. Be objective. If something is in your craw and is eating away at you, have your say and move on.
BUSSE and PRISCO are a team I will play with anytime!

 

[volvi]

Ryu,
Perhaps in your mind Busse can do no wrong, and Andy and Jerry are above reproach, but disagreeing with the deletion of a entire thread is not as you wrote, crying and bitching like a baby.

[This message has been edited by volvi (edited 10-23-2000).]

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Just to clarify, I don't have any doubts as to the products or to the intentions behind the actions. I have not spoken to Andy, but have with Jerry and trust that he was doing what he was in the best interest of his customers.

My point was that simply that deletion very rarely if ever is positive. You might not see this in the forum itself, but in emails and in other forums you can easily get a reputation that is very harmful and near impossible to get rid of once you have it.

-Cliff

 

[Hoodoo]

Oh boy. Here we go. The internet seems to be tailor made for these kind of things. Sit back, type in whatever comes to mind, and hit the return key. Very anonymous. We can say whatever we want and there is no accountability.

Need I remind fellow members that name-calling is prohibited on this forum? It seems to be coming more and more frequent, unfortunately. Is this issue so great that we need to get our testosterone in an uproar? I don't know about you guys but I try to have fun here, not change the universe. Do we have to throw a rock at every barking dog? Relax, take a deep breath. Do what Misko could not. Isn't it conceivable that this issue could be discussed with out the namecalling and righteous indignation? Or are we all going to hide in our little digital pillboxes and sling bits of binary mud at each other?

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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM

 

Soryy for calling folks babies. I never pointed a finger but this gets old guys. I don't Think Jerry and Andy can do no wrong. They are Human and make mistakes. But my point was that this is their forum really. Not ours. It's here for us but belongs to them. They can do as they please. If I came into your house and put up a picture on the wall you didn't want and you took it down would I have any right to get angry with you? No! it's your house. This is Jerry and Andy's house. they didn't want that picture on their wall. So there you go.

 

[muzzleup]

Are Busse knives standard production knives....hell no! They are hand made! If your knife is 1/2" longer then my knife..so what! its vertually a custom knife. Knives that are hand made will all differ to some degree whether it is the grind being a little different or the point shaped a fraction different....so what?
If you are buying a Busse knife for microscopic dimensions to compare to other knives then you are buying for the wrong reason!
You buy a Busse knife for its performance and Busse knives perform just as they are advertised.
I have not seen any flaps about the Busse product not performing as it is advertised. I know that some think they are too pricey...easy, just buy a cheaper knife some place and forget about owning a performing knife like the Busse's.
I am not wild about deletions but I also don't know the whole story from both sides, infact I don't really care because it seems that the argument is not important anyway.

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Ron,
Bremerton, Washington