Then you have no place here at all.

[Haze]

Nineteen posts removed from "Having trouble with jamesk007" for being off-topic and disrupting the discussion.

What happens if I feel I'm not responsible?

Then you have no place here at all. :thumbdn:

It's worth noting that dealing with folk from the US is a nighmare and I rarely do it. The burden is always on "the foreigner" and they only ship on condition that if the knife they post gets lost it's my my problem, but never is that risk shared. That got very boring very quickly and I now don't even bother trying. Having read what people here did and didn't agree to this seems to be a splendid example of that one sided risk taking in a deal, and all that goes with it.......

 

[Haze]

The knife was not illegal to own in any way. Please, if you have no idea about UK knife laws then just don't comment. The "some boy said...", or "I read some place..." reasoning does not amount to actual knowledge. I see the same old silly nonsense being coughed up every time when the UK is mentioned. The only knives that are flat out illegal to import are automatics and balisongs, even those are technically legal to own. The legality of a knife has nothing to do with the foot dragging and poor behaviour of its owner any way, regardless of where in the world one might live.

This is a very good indicator something is fishy. He very well knew the risks of having a knife sent to him that was illegal to own. You accepted responsibility when you agreed to trade and "send" the package. Time to grow up.

 

[bernard_s3]

The knife was not illegal to own in any way. Please, if you have no idea about UK knife laws then just don't comment. The "some boy said...", or "I read some place..." reasoning does not amount to actual knowledge. I see the same old silly nonsense being coughed up every time when the UK is mentioned. The only knives that are flat out illegal to import are automatics and balisongs, even those are technically legal to own. The legality of a knife has nothing to do with the foot dragging and poor behaviour of its owner any way, regardless of where in the world one might live.

Please, don't start with the personal insults. This is where I saw it from.

I think I might have an idea what's going on here. The guy you're trading with lives in the U.K. This explains a lot to me really. Locking knives of any sort are illegal there. The knife could have been seized by customs and destroyed. If he tries to send your knife back to you, it's possible for the same thing to happen again. Locking knives + the U.K never ends well.

So if you got something to say, explain this to him in a rude manner too.

"It is an offence for any person, without lawful authority or good reason, to have with him in a public place, any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except for a folding pocket-knife which has a cutting edge to its blade not exceeding 3 inches." [CJA 1988 section 139(1)]

Perhaps I should have used the word "carry" instead of "own". As a matter of fact i'll edit it now.

 

[Haze]

Perhaps I should have used the word "carry" instead of "own". As a matter of fact i'll edit it now.

Yes, perhaps you should have.......

 

[ooitzoo]

What happens if I feel I'm not responsible?

I still have the paperwork
If I send the knives back then u will be at a loss, I will have lost knives

Right. Unless something turns around REALLY quick. I don't think anyone is going to bother dealing with you in the future. This is some Mickey Mouse BS. No one gives a $h*t whether you *feel* like you're responsible. The fact is that you are responsible. This mess is a direct consequence of your actions and no one elses. Its not like either guy to whom you owe a knife had any control over how you shipped and whether you kept docs.

It's worth noting that dealing with folk from the US is a nighmare and I rarely do it. The burden is always on "the foreigner" and they only ship on condition that if the knife they post gets lost it's my my problem, but never is that risk shared. That got very boring very quickly and I now don't even bother trying. Having read what people here did and didn't agree to this seems to be a splendid example of that one sided risk taking in a deal, and all that goes with it.......

That's because you've got some batty laws in the UK. Why should the American share in the risk? You need the American and he does not need you. Its just that simple. Like any negotiation, the party with the leverage sets terms.

What Haze said is sad- washing your hands of any responsibility once you ship an item is bull shit, unethical and wrong. Don't engage in the transaction if you don't have a reasonable expectation the item will arrive safely and in a tracable manor.

I am not really sure what you're trying to say here. The reason folks want these agreements is to protect themselves in the event of a sticky-fingered customs agent. You literally have no control and no recourse if UK (or wherever) customs decides to take your property. Literally none. Therefore people don't want to risk it.

That said, its perfectly ethical/moral/fair/etc. as long as the other party is made aware and agrees to the arrangement.

 

[338375]

That's because you've got some batty laws in the UK. Why should the American share in the risk? You need the American and he does not need you. Its just that simple. Like any negotiation, the party with the leverage sets terms.

What ??? Are you serious ?... This is not a structured business transaction, this is a hobby. We have many members here who are not from the U.S, and we all share the same interest. To say that those of us here in the U.S, are superior to our members that don't live here, is insulting, and rude.

they have told me that showing them a peice of paper will not bring there knives back
if they want to see pics of them email me, the only reason i didnt is because they told me not to

We know that showing a picture of the paper will not bring back the knives. What it does show, is that you indeed did ship the knives.
Who told you not to show the papers ?

Here is my latest communication with James.

He responded,
"not saqying i would but what happens if i refuse?
also i was talking to my post man and he's gonna call me tonight or tomorrow morning telling me what he was found out"

Again, you are involving a third party. YOU should be the one checking on this. Your credibility is very quickly going down the drain

 

[ooitzoo]

What ??? Are you serious ?... This is not a structured business transaction, this is a hobby. We have many members here who are not from the U.S, and we all share the same interest. To say that those of us here in the U.S, are superior to our members that don't live here, is insulting, and rude.

Stating the fact that an unreasonable amount of knives get confiscated in the UK/Europe is insulting and rude?? Ok, I guess. If facts offend you then perhaps you should avoid rational discussions.

The reality is that its a transaction. Its no different then collecting and trading anything else. If you think car collectors aren't dotting their i's and crossing their t's then you're VERY much mistaken. Yes, its a hobby but it does have a transactional component to it. If this bothers you then I suggest you take up pilates or yoga.

 

[medcommander]

In all honesty let me first say that as a new member who just iniated his first trade this thread scares the crap outta me. Second let me state that when making an agreement you are expected to stick to it otherwise you are a liar and in this case a thief.

Haze: While I understand that you do not like people making assumptions about your society and culture let me remind you that there is legitimate concern for anyone making a deal overseas. If this situation was reversed then I would of course be siding with James but in the current situation I must give my support to the people who have neither had their belongings returned or compensated for there loss. Also you will find that like you I take offense when people make derrogitory comments about my culture and my nation in general so please refrain from repeating this mistake.

As for dealings with the UK and other foreign entities I myself am particularly skeptical because they do not answer to the same legislative system that I do, and as ooitzoo has stated we are often unintentionally ignorant of foreign policy and legislation. As for the UK specifically I have been lead to believe than knives and firearms are more govermentally regulated which can sometimes interfere with importation. Comparatively the US pretty much will import anything as long as it comes in box, so yes in my opinion there would be a greater risk for a US BF member to trade with a UK one.

I really hope this matter can be resolved, but if it cannot be corrected then James you do owe both of these members recompense. You are in the wrong!
They took care of their end now you have to take care of yours. It doesn't matter if a meteorite fell from the sky and crushed the knives as they were in transit. They sent you a knife which you recieved, now you must either make sure they get theirs, compensate them for the amount, or give them the knife back.

James I am sorry though about the mix up with your knife and I do understand that it will suck not getting the knives back if you do fix the issue, but in this case you have to think about preserving you reputation and making it right. Some times you just have to suck it up and do whats right.

-MC

 

[Haze]

That's because you've got some batty laws in the UK. Why should the American share in the risk? You need the American and he does not need you. Its just that simple. Like any negotiation, the party with the leverage sets terms.

Your post is exactly the sort of attitude I'm talking about. I don't care if you're an American....I'm Scottish and that has meant something for a hell of a lot longer. The US has some pretty daft knife laws as well and you actually don't know what the law is in the UK any way, do you ? You're just splashing about the same tired old lines we always hear. I also don't need you or your country in any way, I still get the knives I want with out having to play your silly one sided games.

I have traded, bought and sold knives with people all over the world and it's only the Americans like you that behave like this and feel the world should grovel at your feet for some reason........

 

[Haze]

Can you provide some evidence of this ? You seem to think you are stating facts so you must have somthing solid to back that up......

Stating the fact that an unreasonable amount of knives get confiscated in the UK/Europe is insulting and rude?? Ok, I guess. If facts offend you then perhaps you should avoid rational discussions.

The reality is that its a transaction. Its no different then collecting and trading anything else. If you think car collectors aren't dotting their i's and crossing their t's then you're VERY much mistaken. Yes, its a hobby but it does have a transactional component to it. If this bothers you then I suggest you take up pilates or yoga.

 

[Jfoley4]

your arrogance is showing calm down a bit

 

[veubent]

Haze and company, Can we please take the UK battle to PM's or Whine and Cheese. No disrespect intended but I would like to keep this thread moving towards the safe return of our knives. Thanks

 

[phil40000]

I think I might have an idea what's going on here. The guy you're trading with lives in the U.K. This explains a lot to me really. Locking knives of any sort are illegal there. The knife could have been seized by customs and destroyed. If he tries to send your knife back to you, it's possible for the same thing to happen again. Locking knives + the U.K never ends well.

Locking knives are illegal in the UK?

Well i am in trouble as i have 200 locking knives in my collection. Please make sure you know what you are talking about before posting, locking knives can be owned and carried in the UK whilst following the law/s, .

A little bit of knowledge..................

To add that surely the focus should be on getting whats owed to the right people? Not a knob measuring contest.

 

[bernard_s3]

your arrogance is showing calm down a bit

While I agree he's getting emotional about a trade that doesn't even concern him. Don't feed fuel to the fire, he's the only one that can't seem to act like an adult and discuss the issue.

 

[medcommander]

Haze: Again I will warn you. Do not make the mistake again please.

-MC

 

[Haze]

I'm not emotional or even mildly excited in any way so I'm not sure why you would think that. There are vastly uninformed individuals in this thread spreading nonsense as facts. Those people may wish to stick to the actual issue at hand rather than saying stupid things about the UK knife laws they know nothing about. That really does have nothing to do with what has happend here with these trades.

You're just trying to troll now any way so I'll leave you to it.......

While I agree he's getting emotional about a trade that doesn't even concern him. Don't feed fuel to the fire, he's the only one that can't seem to act like an adult and discuss the issue.

Who the bojangles do you think you're talking to ? Take your warning and cram it back where it fell out.

Haze: Again I will warn you. Do not make the mistake again please.

-MC

 

[medcommander]

[/QUOTE]Who the bojangles do you think you're talking to ? Take your warning and cram it back where it fell out.[/QUOTE]

I'm the decendant of a bunch of hard working farmers and sailors who bled and died to create the country which you are ridiculing. If you had read my earlier posts I explained my stance on this and I tried to be polite in every way, but let me tell you that the only thing that I will be cramming is my boot up your ass.

I warned you that people do not like it when assholes make derogitory comments about their homeland. You have no idea of our laws, culture, beliefs, etc... so don't believe that you do. I'm fine if you want to correct false attitudes or even blow off a little steam, but don't turn this serious situation into some personal vendetta.

Again please stop being an asshole, Thank you

-MC

 

[ooitzoo]

Your post is exactly the sort of attitude I'm talking about. I don't care if you're an American....I'm Scottish and that has meant something for a hell of a lot longer. The US has some pretty daft knife laws as well and you actually don't know what the law is in the UK any way, do you ? You're just splashing about the same tired old lines we always hear. I also don't need you or your country in any way, I still get the knives I want with out having to play your silly one sided games.

I have traded, bought and sold knives with people all over the world and it's only the Americans like you that behave like this and feel the world should grovel at your feet for some reason........

Yep. Its meant that you've been the queens b!tch for the last one thousand years (give or take.)

Can you provide some evidence of this ? You seem to think you are stating facts so you must have somthing solid to back that up......

I spent over a year living in the UK. Trust me, I understand EXACTLY how your laws and enforcement of those laws work. If the good people in customs can confiscate something or charge you a tariff on it then they will no matter how much you protest. That's just the reality. I don't have the time or the inclination to explain to you your own laws.

As far as the bias toward American members on the forum goes, I suggest you read this: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/934210-tundratrader-where-are-my-knives

The forum rallied (more or less unanimously) around a Russian guy trying to get his issue resolved.

There I got it out of my system. Glad to hear that James (or his mum) is doing the right thing.

 

[snowreaper1]

Lets Get Ready to Rumbleeeeeee!