Thickness of the blade

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Oct 20, 2000
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There are knives that have an above average thickness blade. Is this really necessary.

I was thinking that if the blade is made of a certain material that is already way above average, does it need to be thick as well to achieve a certain performance.

Or is the thickness an aesthetic factor? Some knife collectors prefer blades with this awesome size spine. I understand people with big hands would prefer a knife that matches their palms.

I have seen knives with "thin" blades doing great jobs at cutting and other things. If it is a superior blade material, surely thickness would not be such an important consideration.
 
That would depend on what you plan on doing with the knife. All other factors being equal, thinner will cut better. It will also break easier. If you want a knife that cuts well and does nothing else (like for the kitchen) think stock is great. If you want a knife that won't lose its tip when you drop it or snap when you use it to bust open window glass after your car goes off a bridge (made up examples for the sake of arguement), there are advantages to a thinner blade. Look at HI Khukuris. They are definitely "above average" thickness, and they're also above average in toughness too. Same with Striders. Does my Strider AD cut as well as my Spyderco Moran? Nope. But I've torqued on the AD hard enough to easily bust the Moran, and it hasn't bothered the blade at all. My Moran works a lot better than the AD in the kitchen for slicing up veggies though. It's simple: match the design of the knife to its purpose. Better steel just means a larger margin on either end.
 
Golok, when custom knives first started taking off big time, in the 1970s, thickness was the "mark" of a handmade knife. The factories were all producing very thin knives.
I have seen some small fixed blades, from that time, that are heavier than a custom fighter today, real boat anchors. The standard was 1/4" thickness, with 3/8" a very popular size. Thank God it has come down to reasonable thickness' again.:eek:
 
If the knife is going to be used as a pry bar or to cut down trees then I guess you need a thick blade. If you want one that cuts better, you would be better off with a thinner one. A knife with a thinner blade will also be lighter making it better for throwing in a pack that will be carried many miles. I am not a fan of really thin or really thick blades. Somewhere in the middle seems to work best for me.
 
It all depends on what you are going to cut. If you are chooping on hardwoods then you better have a large heavy blade with a relatively soft RC. But, if you are cutting down weeds and brush along the trails, take a long and light weight machete with a good hard temper. Every tool has a purpose; just use the right tool for the job.

n2s
 
So what thickness does it for you? For me, at least in a general purpose utility or camp knife with blade length somewhere between 3 and 5 inches, 3/32" thickness seems to do the job very well. Many of my knives in this category are made from 1/8" stock, and I've found that unless I'm actually having to abuse them badly, even that thickness is overkill.

I settled on 3/32" just to err a little on the side of extra strength as well. Two summers ago, I spent the whole summer with a 5" (blade) long Mora2000 that is only 1/16" thick (cost me $25 from Ragweed Forge) and it did everything it was called upon to do, even to being pounded through logs up to 1.5" in diameter to make kindling! However, I didn't try to split pelvic bones, dig holes, or pry apart tree trunks. I don't suppose it would have lasted very long if I did...
 
One other factor that determines the blade thickness is the type of grind lines and look the maker is after. For instance, it's hard to get a deep hollow grind on a thin blade.
 
i use 3/32 and 1/8 with a full vee grind on my culinary knives. for 5-7" blade hunters,camp and fighters i really like 5/32" for bowie and monster camp blades 3/16" i go to 1/4" thick by custom order only. a lot of it has to do with the grind. i prefer flats and flats with convex edge.also the amount of distal taper makes a diff.
 
I just love a large, heavy knife.

My two EDC folders are a BM 710 (4.5 oz) and an Al Mar SERE 2000 (6 oz). These are not gargantuan, but they are in the large end for typical folders. I just love the heft of a solid, thick blade.

If I have to cut a tomato with my 19 oz, 1/4" Busse SH-E, then I will just have to cut thicker slices. This knife gives you the feeling of a tremendous amount of cutting and chopping ability into a relatively small package (7.5" blade).

You can do anything with a larger than average blade; sometimes it just takes a lot of patience and care. There are many things you cannot do with an undersized blade.
 
I personally see no need for a blade to be a specific thickness throughout it's length. I feel that a blade that will cut well, withstand hard use, and be comfortable for an individual to carry/use should have a dital taper. This is where the thickest portion of the blade is directly in front of the guard/bolsters, with a continuous taper to the point. This method also allows a blade to endure more stress than one that is an even thickness for it's entire length.
Now a lot of people might get upset that I say this, but the reason many stainless steel blades are left thick is to compensate for the weakness that occurs when the blade is brought to it's working hardness. Let's use good ol' 440C as an example.......at the hardness level required for this steel to "hold" and edge, it is rather brittle. By using a semi-hollow grind, which leaves a mass of material just behind the edge, the brittleness is overcome by the support that this extra mass lends. The down side of this is that the edge bevels generally must be rather obtuse to support the edge, and in turn makes the blade more difficult to cut with, and often times very difficult for a customer to resharpen.
Now before anybody goes to get a rope........this is only an example. Here's something else to think about.....if a maker rounds off the corners on the spine of a knife, it can be reduced in thickness, since there are no sharp corners to induce stress risers should the encounter a situation where it is flexed.......
There are many factors that must be considered when producing a blade. It's a combination of the "little" things that makes the overall work.
 
Some measure thickness with a micrometer, others by feel and with an eye for purpose. What it boils down to: When a blade is noticably thick, it may lack what I call functional balance. Thick and thin need to flow gracefully guided by the nature of the knife. This is a facet of the custom knife that comes with experience tempered by a lot of thought. Functional balance stands upon the nature of the steel.

Ed Caffrey hit the nail on the head with his thoughts on stainless, the nature of some stainless may someday be overcome by variations in heat treat, but this may also alter some of the desired qualities of the steel.
 
Yes, I remember now, the last time I ground a stainless blade. I thought, better leave it real thick, because i'm using this weak sub standard material.:mad: Hogwash. Less distal taper in SS knives is just the nature of grinding your blades VS, forging. No knifemaker is going to use weak sub standard materials in their knives.Not any good ones anyway. Enough of the bs, were all supposed to be craftsmen/artists, and professionals here.
 
I'm curious to know, how thin a small folder (say 2.5" - 3") could be made and still be useful for home/office work (cutting cardboard, string, tape, fruit, etc.. - no heavy duty stuff like prying or twisting). I'm thinking about looking for a real thin (maybe 1/16"?!?), maybe convex or flat ground blade? Or would that just be ridiculous?
 
Plenty of older slip-joints were made as thin as 1/16". You could probably go a little thinner, especially with something like 3V that is stronger than the 1095 those old-timers were made out of.
 
I would hate to try to use that big chopper to whittle with. Big knives can be used to do most cutting chores but not all. I like a blade that is thick enough to do the job that I am asking the knife to do and no more. The right tool for the job as they say. (Who the heck are "they" anyway?)
 
I'm curious to know, how thin a small folder (say 2.5" - 3") could be made and still be useful for home/office work (cutting cardboard, string, tape, fruit, etc.. - no heavy duty stuff like prying or twisting). I'm thinking about looking for a real thin (maybe 1/16"?!?), maybe convex or flat ground blade? Or would that just be ridiculous?

Not ridiculous at all! I've worked with 5" blades 1/16" thick that are just fine. A small folder should be just fine at that thickness especially as you can't really pry or twist very hard with even 1/8" blades on folders cause the pivots and locks get tweaked long before the blade steel in most cases... I wonder though if its harder for the knife makers to be as precise with their moving parts and locks at that thickness... Otherwise, I think the perception that thin blades equate to "cheap" work is mostly psychological.
 
Mike: I did not mean to imply that steel is weak or substandard. All have their own nature that needs to be taken into accound when developing a knife.
 
golok :

There are knives that have an above average thickness blade. Is this really necessary.

Thickness gives strength, thus if you want to be able to pry forcefully you need a decent thickness. About 1/4" of fully hardened steel, with a v-grind, has a breakpoint of in the region of 3000 in.lbs of torque, which is enough short of two handed deadlift type movements, or jumping on the blade, or prying with the very tip. However if you want to be able to do any of those things you will need more thickness. You can just use a more obtuse primary grind, but that lowers the cutting ability, and you don't need to do that with thicker blade stock as you just make the blade wider. So basically the thicker blade (and wider) allows a higher cutting ability at the same strength as the more obtuse primary grinds on the thinner blade.

As well, if the blade has a selective hardening (softer spine), it will be much weaker than a fully hardened blade and thus you need more thickness at the spine to raise the strength up to the same level as a fully hardened blade. This is why traditional khukuris for example only go down to ~3/8" at a minimum as they would be far too easy to bend at 1/4" thick as they only harden very close to the edge. The spine on those blades is left very soft to take the serious pounding that they sometimes have to endure. So very basically, the thickness allows a much higher impact toughness at the same strength. Even with the very thick spines (sometimes approaching 3/4"), they still cut very well because they are wide enough so that the grinds are decently acute.

Now the argument could be made that with modern materials you can shave off some stock. Well yes you can do this with toughness, however not so much with strength and because strength falls off so rapidly with thickness (quadratic), you can't go much below 1/4" anyway or it becomes far too easy to bend. Easy of course is a relative term, but to put it simply, someone who wants the strength of 1/4" thickness in 1095, isn't going to be satisfied with 3/16" CPM-3V. Even though 3V will have a small strength advantage, it isn't as large as the thickness change will induce. However toughness is another matter, the difference in impact toughness can easily be that much that a really tough blade at 3/16" (5160 at ~58 RC) will easily outlast a brittle one at 1/4" (D2 at 62 RC) when both are subjected to high impact pounding.

There are also a number of advantages that thicker blades make for actual functional cutting. For chopping for example they bind less and thus allow a more fluid pace. They are heavier and thus make better hammers and impact tools, the wider spines also do the same thing by giving you a larger impact area. The spines are thicker and thus are more comfortable for control as when using the blade as a drawknife.

MJHKNIVES :

... the last time I ground a stainless blade. I thought, better leave it real thick, because i'm using this weak sub standard material. Hogwash.

Stainless steels are not weak, in general they are very strong especially compared to the low allow steels. However they are much more brittle than the non-stainless steels, especially the plain carbon steels (1084), the spring steels (5160), the high impact tool steels (A8), of course the shock steels (S7), as well as the general purpose steels like 52100 and L6. This difference is on the order of many to one, not a few percent.

Less distal taper in SS knives is just the nature of grinding your blades VS, forging.

You can get extreme distal tapers on stock removal blades, Phil Wilson's hunters and fillet blades for example. Any fillet blade would do as an example, even the cheap production ones taper strongly from 1/8" to under 1/32" .

Ed Caffrey :

I personally see no need for a blade to be a specific thickness throughout it's length.

To maintain an overall high level of strength, as while distal tapers allow a very high level of flexibility they also weaken blades significantly. As well to leave the tip strong and durable for high impact and prying work. Also to leave enough thickness than it doesn't bind excessively when chopping. Of course, a strong distal taper does have advantages as well, just as any choice you make with a knife, steel or geometry wise there are positive and negative aspects. As to the right or wrong nature, this can only be judged once you know the intention of the design.

-Cliff
 
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