Damn this thread started to go south I am interested in blades that are thinnly ground/deep grinds. Not choppers or blades built for abuse. .015 is thick in my book. Now even a .25 stock blade can be made to cut and cut well it all is in how it is ground. The white Wing knives have me interested anyone have a link where they can be seen and bought? Also I have only seen 1 Dozier knife, the Whittler I think and agree Bob knows how to grind them, great exsample of what I look for in a blade. Are his folders ground just as nice and thin?
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Thin blades
- Thread starter db
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- Oct 5, 1998
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Jerry,
Yes, the edge was too thin for that application. I was pleased to see how well the blade had held up though. The damage was very little for the amount of abuse encountered. Properly heat treated ATS34 is remarkably tough.
db,
This blade was flat ground from 1/8", to virtually zero (pre-damage). It had almost no secondary or micro bevel.
Yes, the edge was too thin for that application. I was pleased to see how well the blade had held up though. The damage was very little for the amount of abuse encountered. Properly heat treated ATS34 is remarkably tough.
db,
This blade was flat ground from 1/8", to virtually zero (pre-damage). It had almost no secondary or micro bevel.
Good points, but I'll stick with a good thick blade in the woods. When one fixed blade is all you are carrying, it better be able to take abuse, including prying. At least mine better be able to, it's hard to anticipate all situations that you might find yourself in, it's comforting having a knife that can double as a hatchet and prybar. I don't carry a hatchet, so if you do, you can probably get away with a thin blade. I also don't do much fine cutting in the woods. I find it amusing that folks who don't like thick blades generally speak well of Busses, which are pretty thick also.
Having said that, I really prefer thin blades in my EDC folders. They do cut much better, and are easier to carry. I just saw an ad for a Boker ceramic folder that looks great.
Gettin' the itch!
Having said that, I really prefer thin blades in my EDC folders. They do cut much better, and are easier to carry. I just saw an ad for a Boker ceramic folder that looks great.
Gettin' the itch!
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- Feb 25, 2001
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I personally prefer thin blades, or at least thin grinds like on the Sebenza and Dozier knives. Why you'd want a thick blade and grind on a small folder is simply beyond me. It's not like you could actually chop with a 2 1/2 inch folding knife...... unless you're crazy.
I will admit that some thick knives have been engineered to cut well though. I have a nice Marbles that both cuts and chops like crazy. I'm guessing that the convex grind and carbon steel are the keys there.
I will admit that some thick knives have been engineered to cut well though. I have a nice Marbles that both cuts and chops like crazy. I'm guessing that the convex grind and carbon steel are the keys there.
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I agree with Buzzbait when it comes to Marbles. My Fieldcraft (EDC) and Campcraft have substantial blades 3/16" at the spine, but the relatively flat grind, convex edge and the 52100 steel, cryogenically treated, make them superb cutters. I can set the blade of either on a tomato, give the spine a gentle tap and the tomato dies... well, bleeds tomato juice profusely.
I never wanted to say I was against thick blades, that is not what this post is about. In fact if you like thick blades and grinds you should be very happy almost every knife is made that way. I personally like thinnly ground blades and great cutting knives and I thought that is what I asked about in this thread. Take your thick blades and go start your own. Mat that sounds like it was a great knife the person who damaged it would have probly done the same no matter how thick it was. Some people are just clueless on what a knife can and should do.
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I have a Gerber clip-point hunter that I bought off a buddy who thought the blade was too thin. It has a 5 inch blade, 1/8 inch thick. I've had this knife for 12 years now, and it has cut or chopped every thing I have thrown at it.
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Even Bob Dozier's hunters (I have 2 of them) are 1/8" thick at the spine for about 1/2 the blade length before he gets into his nice distal taper. Personally even I think this is thicker than necessary.
Bob's ultra-cutting effect comes from his very deep hollow grind followed by a well matched secondary bevel. This arrangement works great for shallow cutting tasks (like skinning) and still leaves some strength in the blade as a whole (at the spine), but it doesn't work so well when you have to cut all the way through something that binds together until the whole width of the blade splits it. For such jobs, a flat grind with a thinner spine (say 1/16") works much better.
I too have wondered: where are the custom makers who will work with such thin stock outside of the kitchen knife arena?
Bob's ultra-cutting effect comes from his very deep hollow grind followed by a well matched secondary bevel. This arrangement works great for shallow cutting tasks (like skinning) and still leaves some strength in the blade as a whole (at the spine), but it doesn't work so well when you have to cut all the way through something that binds together until the whole width of the blade splits it. For such jobs, a flat grind with a thinner spine (say 1/16") works much better.
I too have wondered: where are the custom makers who will work with such thin stock outside of the kitchen knife arena?
I have recently received a good example if the sharpened crowbar type of knife, a 2.8 long BM 770 Osborne. This is cut from 0.114 stock and is flat ground from the edge to the full thickness of the blade 7/16 back from the edge. To put this into perspective, the Spyderco Calypso Jr. which is also flat ground would have to be cut from over ¼ stock at the top of the hole. I tried to cut an apple in half with the 770 Gent but it split as though I had driven a wedge through it, which I suppose I had. 
I think the 770 Gent is a good design with a brilliant lock, but could be much improved made from say 0.09 stock like the BM Park Avenue, with a hollow grind to the top of the blade and no large false grind at the top. The William Henry Lancet is made like this, and I dont hear people complaining about the strength of their blades
I think the 770 Gent is a good design with a brilliant lock, but could be much improved made from say 0.09 stock like the BM Park Avenue, with a hollow grind to the top of the blade and no large false grind at the top. The William Henry Lancet is made like this, and I dont hear people complaining about the strength of their blades
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Matthew,
Knife design is an exercise in engineering tradeoffs.
I think that hollow grinds are what cause the Dozier to hang up for you. The hollow has a prononunced wedging affect as you near the spine. The upside of the hollow is that the half of an I-beam cross section makes the blade stiff.
I typically work in 1/16 for kitchen knives, and 3/32" and 1/8" for hunters. But I flat grind. My flat grinds, combined with pronounced distal taper, reduce the amount of material in the cut for most of the length of the blade. See the following spine shots.
These blades cut like crazy, but are not as stiff as a hollow ground knife. I think it is an acceptable tradeoff, but certainly a flat ground hunter in 1/16" would be more flexible than some users would expect.
As noted in my earlier post, sometimes makers and manufacturers find their knives being used in ways not intended. To be conservative, therefore many go with thicker stock and thicker edges.
My experience has been that 3/32 and 1/8 perform fine, but they do not draw as much attention at a knife show. At knife shows, thick knives with dramatic grinds draw the most attention. That is one reason why you see so many sabre ground knives (IMHO).
Convex grinds (which I do not do) hang up the least, but tend not to be very photogenic.
Knife design is an exercise in engineering tradeoffs.
I think that hollow grinds are what cause the Dozier to hang up for you. The hollow has a prononunced wedging affect as you near the spine. The upside of the hollow is that the half of an I-beam cross section makes the blade stiff.
I typically work in 1/16 for kitchen knives, and 3/32" and 1/8" for hunters. But I flat grind. My flat grinds, combined with pronounced distal taper, reduce the amount of material in the cut for most of the length of the blade. See the following spine shots.
These blades cut like crazy, but are not as stiff as a hollow ground knife. I think it is an acceptable tradeoff, but certainly a flat ground hunter in 1/16" would be more flexible than some users would expect.
As noted in my earlier post, sometimes makers and manufacturers find their knives being used in ways not intended. To be conservative, therefore many go with thicker stock and thicker edges.
My experience has been that 3/32 and 1/8 perform fine, but they do not draw as much attention at a knife show. At knife shows, thick knives with dramatic grinds draw the most attention. That is one reason why you see so many sabre ground knives (IMHO).
Convex grinds (which I do not do) hang up the least, but tend not to be very photogenic.
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- Aug 1, 1999
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Swede I beg to differ. You've made a case for a strong blade, not necessarily a thick blade. The fact is, most of the chores you've listed are better done with a machete, blade thickness under 1/8". As for splitting an Elk pelvis, well I have to think a hatchet is a far better tool - lousy for caping and skinning though... 
The bottom line is we all have a different take on this, so no reason for anyone to get their back up.
The bottom line is we all have a different take on this, so no reason for anyone to get their back up.
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- Nov 17, 1999
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Well, Dozier has already been recommended. And of course Jerry Hossom has already explained that he too makes some great Cutting tools that are thin.
Another Maker that does Superb work and shares your enthusiasm for Thin blades is Geno Denning. His Website is here; http://www.cavemanengineering.com Or you can Order through Les Robertson who has a few of Geno's knives on hand.
I personally recommend anything from any of the above Makers, I'm sure others will agree.
Another Maker that does Superb work and shares your enthusiasm for Thin blades is Geno Denning. His Website is here; http://www.cavemanengineering.com Or you can Order through Les Robertson who has a few of Geno's knives on hand.
I personally recommend anything from any of the above Makers, I'm sure others will agree.
