Thin cuts better.

Ebbtide
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Hey look at it this way, there is a whole 'nother genre of knives to buy...a 'thin' hunter & a 'thin' fighter...
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That's what I've been thinking....

George...
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Actually the knife started out as a piece of 1/4" stock and was cut down to the 3/16" blade thickness.
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If that's our knife you are talking about, I hope you meant 1/4" and 3/32"
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[This message has been edited by matthew rapaport (edited 06-15-2001).]
 
I've used that knife Steve showed in the pic, and man does it cut. The edge geometry is everything in this case, because as I recall the spine as .25" thick and the blade itself isn't very wide, so I would have predicted from the picture that the performance would stink. But on materials that don't bind, I'd bet that the Boye Hunter performs like a <.1" Deerhunter. Nice to know that you get something for the price Boye is asking for that knife
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On the other hand, as Steve pointed out, in binding materials, a thick-spined blade will lose some of that performance. You'll see a thinner blade start pulling away.

I stick with thin blades for the most part, even if the edge geometry isn't perfect, they'll still cut well. Steve's thick-spined knife is kind of the exception that proves the rule: if you get the edge geometry just right, you could expect performance in non-binding materials even from thick-spined blades. I just haven't handled any other thick-spined blades besides the Boye Hunter that cuts like that.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by matthew rapaport:
My first true custom is on its way. Its an integral from George Tichbourne. He has been kind enough to provide a picture which I have put up here: http://www.sonic.net/~quine/gifs/tichbourne4.jpg

It is a "true custom" in that it is one of a kind. The blade shape emerged out of my own idea of the ideal utility blade shape and size, in this case 4". George added the false back edge himself, I'll admit it does look really slick, though I think its effect on the knife's utility is somewhat mixed. The handle is one of George's from another knife.

What you can not see in the picture is that the spine is only 3/32" thick. I have a number of expensive and inexpensive utility knives in the 3" to 5" blade length range. With one exception, they are 1/8" thick at the spine. Most of the custom knife makers with whom I am familiar choose this width in a "small blade". Busse is an exception in going even thicker, but the only exception I have going thinner is a 5" long Mora2000 Survival knife ($26) that is only 1/16" thick!

The funny thing is that this little inexpensive knife (I could buy 5 of them for the cost of my next most inexpensive utility fixed blade) cuts wickedly, is quick in the hand, and even at 5" the 1/16" steel is still tough enough to take some pounding through wood to split kindling, and even some hammering (on the pommel) to use the point to dig channels in split wood (as in hollowing out a log). No, the Mora does not hold an edge as long as a Dozier, but for $26 bucks what would I expect? The real lesson though is that a somewhat thinner steel is still quite strong!

George and I talked about this for a while on the phone and by email. Since this was going to be a user at least sometimes, we agreed that 3/32" might be the best experimental compromise for his characteristic flat grind to the spine - just the way I like them.

I am very much looking forward to getting this knife and trying it out around the farm here for as long as I can. No, I won't see if it can dig rocks out of the ground, but it sure will be used to cut a lot of canvas, rope, hose, thin plastic, cardboard, prepare food, clean meat, debone chickens, filet fish, etc. If it performs to my expectations, I may have to revisit other elements of my collection and see if I can thin it out!

So what is it that makes going thinner than 1/8" so unpopular at the moment? Is it just the present fad?
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Great looking knife, what is the alloy is the blade?
 
George told me what he used, but I can't remember at the moment. Was a common higher end stainless if I remember, like 440C or AUS8. I'm sorry I just can't recall at the moment. Perhaps George will chime in again and remind us...
 
Joe Talmadge:

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">But on materials that don't bind, I'd bet that the Boye Hunter performs like a <.1" Deerhunter.</font>

I have used both and yes it does, the edge profiles are similar. However if you cut materials that exert force on the flats of the blade, the thinner Deerhunter readily pulls ahead. You can see this even more so on some of Boyes thicker knives. For example his 3/8"+ dive knives have the same edge geometry but the spines are so thick that it is near impossible to cut a piece of cardboard with them.

As Cougar noted, the thicker spined blade can only match the performance of the thinner blade on materials that open up when cut. On all other materials the thinner blade pulls ahead. As well, the thinner blade will allow a thicker edge given the same cutting performance requirement and thus make for a more durable edge on the knife. If you make the spine really thick you are in effect lowering the effective edge durability. All it gains you is prying strength, which in regards to Boyes work, is not really sensible on cast steel anyway.

As for thin edges on thick stock, Ed Schott grinds even thinner than Boye as he doesn't have a secondary edge bevel as does R.J. Martin and many others of similar style. Many smiths also put very thin convex edges on large bowies, I have seen ~10 degree edge bevels on bowies of 1/4" thick stock with 10" blades.

cerulean :

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">It's amazing how so many
knives these days in the 3" to 5" blade range have the geometry of an axe.</font>

That is a common misconception. High quality axes have very thin bits, judging an axe by the axe-like tool you buy at a hardware store is like judging a Sebenza by the performance of a $1.99 made in Taiwan folder. A felling axe will have an edge that is lightly convex at about 10 degrees or so (depends on the type of wood). How many blades do you know are NIB with that profile?

Why are so many people offering thick blades? Mainly because of the "tactical" rage. Look at traditional using knives like the stockman patterns, those all had very thin blades. There are also a lot of makers making hunting class blades in very thin stock. For example a 1/8" stock with a full distal grind leaves less metal then a 1/16" no tapered grind for much of the blade. This is how Phil Wilson for example grinds his hunters. He doesn't like going any thinner as a distal taper would induce too much flex in that stock thickness.

-Cliff
 
Sorry folks, I am not quite up to speed with all of the terminology. Could someone explain what a "distal taper" or "distal taper grind" is?
Aloha
 
Sorry guys, I shouldn't even try to answer anything before I have had my second coffee, the finished blade is 3/32" not 3/16" and the tang is 1/8" to give some stiffness to the handle. The starting material is 1/4" 440C, a favourite of mine.

The idea of using a very thick blade on a dive knife is reasonable to give it enough mass to hack with underwater but on dry land unless you are making an ax the extra mass is just so much more to carry.

Distal taper where the blade thins towards the tip as well as from the cutting edge to the spine is desirable in some cases where the tip is used frequently to start a cut such as a hunter beginning to dress an animal or a chef who dices with the tip of his chef's knife. A big bowie which is used to chop with or in the hands of a youngster who likes to stick it into trees and such should have minimal distal taper as it weakens the tip. In fact when I make bowies for buckskinners who are into throwing axes, hawks and knives I make sure that the tip is very meaty.

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george
www.tichbourneknives.com
sales@tichbourneknives.com


 
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