Think your Fire Kits Work....Think Again !!!

[pitdog]

Interesting post, will have to check and see for myself if my firekit works under those kind of conditions...
BTW: Are you sure those are pine needles? Don't look like the pine needles I am used to. Probably a special Canadian Pine.

ll.

They were actually a type of Spruce, Spruce or Pine both make good tea.

 

[pitdog]

I thought long and hard before responding to this thread. Implying one should depend on a Bic lighter is treading on thin ice and could get people in trouble fast, or worse.

Between the cold wet winters and the trips that I took down the river, there is one thing I know for sure. Don't depend on BIC to get you out of trouble. I have had them fail because they were wet, such as a man in the creek dril, or even just a little water on the flint from rain or wet hands. Without something else to light the gas you're waiting for hours in the cold. I've also had them not work at all while out deer hunting because they lost pressure due to how cold it was out. I can't think of a time that I got in trouble depending on a BIC that a ferro rod would not have been a welcome site.

As explained in this thread the issue was not the rod. The ferro rod did as it should have, it started the fire for you. The failure came from prep and material selection, which you learned quickly and went to look for fatwood. You could have started that same fire using your rod. You could also have carried waxed cotton which will burn for 20 minutes and dry your shavings and thinner than pencle material. The bottom line is this shows how important it is to go out and pratice so you know when to look for fatwood, split wood, and doing the prep proper. You may only get one shot at a fire when you need it most. Take you BIC if you must, but also have three or four other methods available. In this case carrying dry tender out have helps too, be it fatwood, shavings, or whatever. The ferro started the fire just fine, it was what happened before and after that caused the issue.

I didn't mean to imply that anyone should put all their faith in a Bic, I've tried making fire in even worse weather before and the Bic failed me. The best item I've found so far is the large BBQ match type things that burn hot for about 8 minutes. The wind and rain didn't appear to affect those and the long burn time dries out even the wettest tinder.
I seriously doubt the waxed cotton would have worked on this occasion, as I mentioned we used PJB's, Ranger bands and even an emergency tin cardboard/wax stove that ST had made, they ALL went out.
Regarding the dry tinder we did start out with some, we had some dry fluffy seed pods mixed with some really good resin but without shelter the tinder ignited but would go out in seconds, within minutes everything was totally soaked through.

 

[FAL'ER]

I've read the whole thread and maybe I'm a little slow. Did the ferro rod not throw as many sparks because of the wet or was it just not hot enough of a spark to get the tinder into a flame. I'm trying to see where ferro rods suck in the rain. And yeah I've spent 2 hours trying to get a fire going in the rain, actually it was 2 of us working on it for 1 hour, 2 man hours. Love your posts bro.

 

[bigghoss]

I remember trying to get a fire lit one morning on a camping trip and it just wasn't working for me even with a lighter. Then I spotted the bag of 'tater chips and used a couple to get my fire lit. Greasy chips make AWESOME tinder.

 

[Codger_64]

I hear ya buddy. That is why I mentioned carrying three Bics. Usually it is a problem with the striker wheel being wet, not the flint itself. Dry out the wheel and try again. Or retrieve the lighter you keep in your pouch inside a waterproof baggie. Or the one sealed inside you PSK. As for cold, yeah, cold can reduce the forming of gas, but a bic carried inside a coat or held in a closed hand or even under an armpit warms up rather quickly. I agree that it is a good idea to carry some sort of accelerant. I do that as well.

But flicking a bic requires far less effort and motor skill that most any other firestarting method. They are small, light and self contained, and with a bit of forethought, easily waterproofed. I build and service swimming pools and spend a lot of time on the water canoeing pretty much year round. I couldn't tell you how many hundreds of times I have dropped a Bic in water or found someone else's floating, dried it and lit it. After well more than half a century, I am still here. Of course I was already a young adult when the Bic Lighter was invented, 1973. But I have hardly ever been without one (or more) since.

 

[Jack Black]

Very interesting post and great pics, as always, PD :thumbup:

 

[sutured]

That is one wet place to start a fire...good on you for tackling the challenge! It's also good to take a long hard look at the things we're so sure of. There's no point in feeding a sacred cow if you never take it to slaughter (apologies to any Hindu members).

One thing that can really help when it's that wet is a sheet of aluminum foil. Shaped into a cone it will protect the tinder from getting rained on, reflect heat back to the tinder pile, and create a chimney effect. A similar thing can be done with large pieces of bark if they're available, but the foil really works well.

Interesting that the vcb's wouldn't hold a fire. I wonder how the wetfire would have fared?

Great post as always.

 

[crossada]

Hey Pit what clothing were you wearing? You look absolutely soaked through in the pic lol. Just wondering if it was a type of wool blend and if you stayed warm.

Thanks for the great thread as always.

 

[pitdog]

Hey Pit what clothing were you wearing? You look absolutely soaked through in the pic lol. Just wondering if it was a type of wool blend and if you stayed warm.

Thanks for the great thread as always.

Yeah I was totally soaked through buddy ! I had my new army jacket on top of a merino sweater, this was only the second time I'd wore the jacket in rain, first time it was not raining too badly and the jacket repelled it fine. On this particlar day,however, the jacket wetted out after a couple of hours and then I quickly became soaked to the skin. I'd guess the temp was around 8-9 degrees though so pretty mild, the merino sweater did a good job of keeping me warm even though wet and the jacket still blocked any wind. Not the best choice given the weather but we have to try these clothes out eh, LOL !

 

[WILLIAM.M]

PITDOG----
My final words of advice, get out and practice this stuff in the worst weather, don't wait till you really need fire only to find your methods don't work !

THAT SIR--IS GREAT ADVICE

 

[upnorth]

I hear you Pit. It rained, then froze, then snowed, then got cold here. Using natural materials gets a little trickier then. Good job on getting that fire going. I was wondering though why you guys didn't make a little over head canopy/shelter with all that green foliage or evergreen boughs around ?

 

[neilrazer]

I hear ya buddy. That is why I mentioned carrying three Bics. Usually it is a problem with the striker wheel being wet, not the flint itself. Dry out the wheel and try again. Or retrieve the lighter you keep in your pouch inside a waterproof baggie. Or the one sealed inside you PSK. As for cold, yeah, cold can reduce the forming of gas, but a bic carried inside a coat or held in a closed hand or even under an armpit warms up rather quickly. I agree that it is a good idea to carry some sort of accelerant. I do that as well.

But flicking a bic requires far less effort and motor skill that most any other firestarting method. They are small, light and self contained, and with a bit of forethought, easily waterproofed. I build and service swimming pools and spend a lot of time on the water canoeing pretty much year round. I couldn't tell you how many hundreds of times I have dropped a Bic in water or found someone else's floating, dried it and lit it. After well more than half a century, I am still here. Of course I was already a young adult when the Bic Lighter was invented, 1973. But I have hardly ever been without one (or more) since.

I think this is very important to recognize. Even at a BSA class for starting fires without lighter/matches, the instructor pointed out that any other method would be a backup plan in case your Bic doesn't work. It's just too easy not to try first. If it works, you'll save yourself extra work. If it doesn't, you didn't waste much time nor effort finding out.

 

[Hammer67]

I think this is very important to recognize. Even at a BSA class for starting fires without lighter/matches, the instructor pointed out that any other method would be a backup plan in case your Bic doesn't work. It's just too easy not to try first. If it works, you'll save yourself extra work. If it doesn't, you didn't waste much time nor effort finding out.

Agreed. A Bic is so easy and simple (when it works) that you should always have one. But I would never fully expect to rely on one, or have it be the only means of making fire in my kit. Just a lightweight, quick, first option to try.

 

[pitdog]

I hear ya buddy. That is why I mentioned carrying three Bics. Usually it is a problem with the striker wheel being wet, not the flint itself. Dry out the wheel and try again. Or retrieve the lighter you keep in your pouch inside a waterproof baggie. Or the one sealed inside you PSK. As for cold, yeah, cold can reduce the forming of gas, but a bic carried inside a coat or held in a closed hand or even under an armpit warms up rather quickly. I agree that it is a good idea to carry some sort of accelerant. I do that as well.

But flicking a bic requires far less effort and motor skill that most any other firestarting method. They are small, light and self contained, and with a bit of forethought, easily waterproofed. I build and service swimming pools and spend a lot of time on the water canoeing pretty much year round. I couldn't tell you how many hundreds of times I have dropped a Bic in water or found someone else's floating, dried it and lit it. After well more than half a century, I am still here. Of course I was already a young adult when the Bic Lighter was invented, 1973. But I have hardly ever been without one (or more) since.

Here is a neat little video for dealing with a wet Bic.

[youtube]UAkw3-9Lzt8[/youtube]

 

[Angus McGunnigl]

This is a great thread.
My methods are pretty hi-tech. I have trioxane fuel tabs as part of my fire kit !
Even those are a challenge in horrid conditions .

 

[Codger_64]

This is a great thread.
My methods are pretty hi-tech. I have trioxane fuel tabs as part of my fire kit !
Even those are a challenge in horrid conditions .

I can light a fire in a water puddle. Anyone heard of some little gray rocks called calcium carbide?

[video=youtube;4vWL9uXNZLg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vWL9uXNZLg[/video]

 

[Hammer67]

I can light a fire in a water puddle. Anyone heard of some little gray rocks called calcium carbide?

Yup. It's what they used to use in miner's lamps. Just make sure you keep it dry until you need it, or you might be in for a surprise.

 

[SERE 9601]

In my opinion.....ferro rods do not suck. What they do is light a fire in all conditions, and require zero maintenance.What they do require is for me to do my part and use the correct tinder, prep, and windblock methods for the conditions.They have worked for me in the HOH Rainforest on the Olympic Peninsula, they worked for me at Eagle Summit Alaska inside and outside my igloo,Spokane Washington in all weather conditions, Greenland Glaciers,Panama Jungle,Kuwait Desert,Georgia and Alabama swamps.Mine is 17 years old and going strong. How long will a waterproof box of storm matches last..... until they are all gone.
As i have said before... skills and technique over gear every time.I carry several different methods to light a fire including a peanut lighter, but when it is dry i will always be able to get a fire with my metal match.

 

[BrettP]

I had a reality check last weekend. My girlfriend and I decided we'd like to have a beach fire. Roast some brats. Drink some wine. We were on the Washington coast. It wasn’t raining surprising but everything was completely wet. Starting the little fire wasn’t really the problem. The problem was getting the bigger stuff to dry out fast enough to light. I had to split some driftwood with my Delica while my GF feed the fire. It was a little frustrating. We did finally get it to go and had a great evening.

A little history: I’m new to Washington. I’m originally from Utah where it's usually pretty easy to find dry stuff. Even when it rains in Utah it seems like it’s not so hard. I think part of the problem is that it’s been so wet in Washington the wood is really saturated.

Solution: Next time I’m bringing the axe for splitting…

 

[neeman]

Interesting

Ignition- Match, lighter, BIC, Ferro Rod
Ignition Tinder - PJBs, fatwood, commerial brands, magnisium shavings
Tinder- Pencil lead thin wood
Kindling - Thumb thick wood
Fuel - Wrist thick wood

Failure was wet Tinder so that the Ignition Tinder could not igniting the Tinder
Success was getting the Ignition tinder (fatwood or big PJBs) to burn long enough to dry the Tinder so it would catch alight

Lesson is to make sure you have enough Ignition Tinder in very wet condiditons