Thinking about a Hinderer for a while...

[utahsam]

Hi friends. I'm trying to talk myself into my first Hinderer. Prices on XMs here on the exchange have really become more reasonable lately. I've been reading a lot of reviews, but many of the older reviews just kind of gripe about the old prices. My wish is for a folder that could be used hard every day for 40 years, opened and closed thousands of times, and still have tight lockup and all of its original strength. A real heirloom knife that could go from my pocket to my son's and maybe one day to his son's, and still be full of strength and precision. I don't really use my knives that hard but what I like to know is that the knife in my pocket could get me out of a lot of unpredictable jams, and for an extended length of time, if the situation arose. Not exactly rational but so what it's my knife and my pocket and my pleasure to carry. My Sebenzas feel like that but I can't get past the late lockup thing...this nagging feeling that there is some kind of countdown on the number of times I can open and close it before the lock hits the opposite scale. Yes, I know, I know.. CRK would "take care of me" if that happened. But... I wish I was carrying a knife of equal quality that I could plan on not ever having to send anywhere, ever. I can't afford to just buy all the great knives, I have to be choosy...maybe what I want isn't even realistic.
Thanks for reading my ramblings and for all responses.

 

[Comeuppance]

People still send in their Hinderers to "the ranch" to have them serviced for this or that reason. Honestly, there is no folding knife that I would ever assume would never need some variety of service eventually. Moving parts means friction which means wear. That's just unavoidable. A fixed blade that will last you 40+ years can be had for 1/10th the price of a Hinderer.

The cost of a Hinderer is not proportional to the materials or inherent quality. You're paying about $200 extra because of the name, realistically. Grab a production folder from a company that will actually be AROUND in 40 years (Kershaw, Spyderco, maybe Benchmade) and you'll have warranty service available to you at all times, and you'll have an extra $200-$300 to buy your kids and their kids some nice knives.

Don't get caught up in reverence and herd mentality. The only special thing about Hinderer knives are the name stamped on them. Your CRKs are made with better tolerances and are much more likely to last the amount of time you want them to.

 

[dr_fosg8]

Hinderer XM knives and CRK knives are both good knives constructed of the same materials, aside from the g10 over Ti and the washers. The XM prices are driven mainly in my opinion due to the direct ordering being available to current military and first responders giving dealers the option to upcharge. It seems that the market is finally starting to fill up if not yet saturated bringing secondary market prices down.

Bottom line, if you find one you like that you can live with paying for go for it, you will not be disappointed. If for some reason you don't like it sell it.

 

[utahsam]

People still send in their Hinderers to "the ranch" to have them serviced for this or that reason. Honestly, there is no folding knife that I would ever assume would never need some variety of service eventually. Moving parts means friction which means wear. That's just unavoidable. A fixed blade that will last you 40+ years can be had for 1/10th the price of a Hinderer.

The cost of a Hinderer is not proportional to the materials or inherent quality. You're paying about $200 extra because of the name, realistically. Grab a production folder from a company that will actually be AROUND in 40 years (Kershaw, Spyderco, maybe Benchmade) and you'll have warranty service available to you at all times, and you'll have an extra $200-$300 to buy your kids and their kids some nice knives.

Don't get caught up in reverence and herd mentality. The only special thing about Hinderer knives are the name stamped on them. Your CRKs are made with better tolerances and are much more likely to last the amount of time you want them to.

Solid advice, thanks.

 

[utahsam]

Bottom line, if you find one you like that you can live with paying for go for it, you will not be disappointed. If for some reason you don't like it sell it.

True...if I grab one at a good price.

 

[Comeuppance]

True...if I grab one at a good price.

That's the upside of such knives - they retain a lot of value, even when used. However, you can't count on that long-term. The market could bottom out at any time, and you're stuck with $500 knives that nobody would pay $200 for.

For long-term use, nothing beats something that is already a good price for the quality of construction and materials - not something that's just well-priced for the brand.

I'm harping on value a lot here. Maybe I need a new job >.>

 

[shunsui]

I think this is the reason Hinderer prices are coming down. Not only much cheaper, but better detent and flipping action. A little more EDC orientated in the steel and grind. I also think some people may be trying these out and deciding the 3.5" size is just a little too small for them, which may be bringing down the demand for the XM.

 

[Jasonsdman]

Not only ZT, but a few other makers have managed to introduce better quality flippers for less. Back in the days, an XM-18 can easily fetch around $700, but now, it cannot compete with the likes of Shirogorov. Don't get me wrong. I still think that the XM-18 is a great design, just not more than Sebenza great. I'd say that if you love Sebenzas, buy one as a backup. It will probably still be in that box waiting for your kids 40 years latter.

 

[wiredbeans]

My take is that Hinderer has some unique designs that are unmistakeable Hinderer like many other great designers.

However, I seem to find that he also designs to too many lower end knifes in partner with Kershaw and zero tolerance. You can get a Hinderer designed Cryo for $40 new with lifetime warranty or a ZT 055/56 for around 2 bills and that comes with lifetime as well.

I know owning the real thing is a different mentality and comes with it a sense of pride and all that but the bottom line is it's a lifestyle call.

You can afford to buy it, do it! Have fun and smile every time you whip it out and open close and admire the feeling of perfect lock up and smooth fluid action.

But passing it down as a heirloom to me is not a good call, who carries around grandpa's knife? That's what it will become some 40 yrs from now. It had sentimental value that is 99% stored in a safe or a drawer and gets taken out once in a blue moon to remember the fishing/hunting/camping trips that they had with you.

Back in the days Buck Knife has that kind of stories, will Rick Hinderer and Chris Reeves gain enough followers to achieve that? Only time will tell... I have seen lots of great name brands come and go because the designer carries the name and as soon as they past away (God forbid) their company and the products just lost the touch and winding down to a dismal and end up getting bought by bigger companies. Either that or their existing products become highly collectables.

My point is, a pocket knife in this category is treated more like a fancy sport watch, it has all the blings and 12 functions that never gets used, I have an Omega sea master that can dive to 150 meters for 10 years now, to this day... The deepest I go is maybe 1.5 meters if that.

Anyways, it's a personal leasure item just like people with $1200 montblanc pen or a $6000 bicycle.

I so want an xm18 with wharncliff blade but I still love my crk insingo!

 

[mrnotsam123]

I think this is the reason Hinderer prices are coming down. Not only much cheaper, but better detent and flipping action. A little more EDC orientated in the steel and grind. I also think some people may be trying these out and deciding the 3.5" size is just a little too small for them, which may be bringing down the demand for the XM.

While I agree with most points made here I wouldn't say that the 0562 is a huge contributor to XM prices dropping ( it is an awesome knife though). Personally I'd say it may account for a small percentage but I think what we are seeing is an oversaturated market for other reasons such as theres more grinds available and people are willing to sell their XM quicker to try out another one, or the fact that midtechs are similarly priced and are more "unique" and less seen. The other reason might be that this is the eventual comedown of the XM as far as price. Originally they were hard to get a hold of because of quantities being limited and direct sales only to Military/LEO whereas now more dealers have them.

To the OP I feel the same way regarding carry mentality...I like to carry knives that I know I can rely on whether large or small and in an emergency if needed. Personally this is why I own an SMF, a few emersons and as of recently an xm18. I'd say if you have the cash and It is a good deal then go for it. Get to know the knife and carry it for a week or two. Worst case is that you don't really like it an you resell it and lose maybe $10-$20.

 

[Ajack60]

The knife you're looking for doesn't exist. Any knife over time will require maintenance. That means you have to do it yourself or send it in.
If you feel a Hinderer is what you want, then get one and don't look back.
These are your expectations and you may have to try several brands before you get that warm fuzzy feeling. I have a warm fuzzy owning CRK's, but that's just me.

 

[utahsam]

Not only ZT, but a few other makers have managed to introduce better quality flippers for less. Back in the days, an XM-18 can easily fetch around $700, but now, it cannot compete with the likes of Shirogorov. Don't get me wrong. I still think that the XM-18 is a great design, just not more than Sebenza great. I'd say that if you love Sebenzas, buy one as a backup. It will probably still be in that box waiting for your kids 40 years latter.

That's kind of what I've been thinking lately, thanks.

 

[utahsam]

The knife you're looking for doesn't exist. Any knife over time will require maintenance. That means you have to do it yourself or send it in.
If you feel a Hinderer is what you want, then get one and don't look back.
These are your expectations and you may have to try several brands before you get that warm fuzzy feeling. I have a warm fuzzy owning CRK's, but that's just me.

You know, you're right of course, and I am more of the do it myself type...which is why I wish I could order extra washers for my CRKs to just have around, and I wish ZT and others would send out lockbar inserts so we could replace those ourselves if needed...

 

[Lycosa]

Try a Strider.

 

[mrnotsam123]

Try a Strider.

this. SnG for smaller carry and SMF if you don't care about weight and size and want to just carry a tank that'll take most use and abuse. Just stick to newer models or ones from reputable sellers to avoid lock rock and other issues. Be prepared and forewarned though there's a break in period. Best of luck to the OP....Keep us updated with what you get

 

[TheGearGuy]

I think many of us search for the "lifetime" knife and I don't believe it truly exists...but I buy knives with a similar thought in mind so I get what you are after.

If a Hinderer is what you like here's what I would suggest. I have an XM18, a ZT0562CF (Hinderer slicer blade), and a ZT0392 (XM18 with 2 Ti scales basically). Of the three I like the XM18 the least. In fact, the truth is, the least expensive of the three (the ZT0562CF) has the best action, and cuts the best because of the grind. All three seem to have been built to last, but none stand out as better built than the others. I would suggest the 0562CF and save yourself a lot of $$.

Here's my ZT0562 in the Oquirrh Mountains, UT just yesterday.

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There's brilliance in simplicity....long lasting quality too. If you are not totally stuck on a Hinderer I have to suggest the Slysz Bowie. The Spyderco Slysz Bowie is simple and built to tolerances of .0005". It has an action that is as smooth and fast as any ball-bearing opener without using bearings. Out of my large collection of high quality knives I would pick the Slysz to be the one I would bet lasts the longest...only time will tell of course...but that would be my bet. For small knives, I would say the same thing about the Techno as well.

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[Silvanus]

Try a Strider.

Have you caught the Strider bug Rolf? I've been seeing you recommending them lately

I owned 4 Hinderer's over the years and only one was bought at military/FF pricing. The rest cost me between $650-$900. The knife design itself I believe to be solid and functional, but the price point is slowly becoming too much. I'll agree with what's already been said that you are paying a lot for the Hinderer brand name. The ZT0562 is VERY comparable to a real Hinderer and half the MSRP. In the end you should buy what makes you happy even if it costs a little more than something comparable. My wife drives an Audi but it doesn't do anything more on the day to day than my Chevy truck. She's paying a lot for the brand and the luxury where as I go purely for function.

 

[Krissig12]

To me, price is no longer an issue with hinderers. At the 3-5 hundred they are selling for on the exchange, they are definitely reasonably priced IMO. That said, the only one I have right now is a 3 inch slicer. I had a 3.5 spanto for a day, but sold it immediately because I didn't like the design in that size. I much prefer the wider blade of my 0562cf in that size range.

I love the 3 inch slicer I have, and I think I'll be keeping it in my collection forever. It works really well, and you can just FEEL the quality dripping off of it . Tuned perfectly so that it is smooth, flips great, perfect lockup, no lockstick, no play, and excellent to look at as well. Just a great Edc. It's actually my second favorite after my small seb cf inlay

 

[archieblue]

I say if you want a Hinderer, buy a Hinderer. Personally, I still believe that CRK makes the overall best folding knife but it is very different from an XM-18. I have zero interest in Hinderer's ZT offerings mainly because they are not as small of batches and are (IMO) ugly in comparison. I've had many many different knives over the years and I can't fault my (gen IV) 3.5" spear point XM-18 at all. In fact, I just tracked down & bought a new 3" slicer which is in transit to me now. I really wanted to justify a cheaper knife, but this was what I wanted so this what I bought. Again, I'd like to stress even though an XM is what I have been and will continue to carry for the foreseeable future, if I had "one" knife it would be a Large Sebenza 21.

 

[utahsam]

Good thoughts, guys, much appreciated. I can't afford to KEEP them both right now, but I think I might buy a XM-18 and an 0562 and let my knife lovin little heart tell me if the Hinderer is a keeper...my favorite thing about the exchange is that buyer's remorse can be cured real fast if I'm willing to lose the cost of a sandwhich on the flip.

Striders just don't get my blood pumping, not sure why.