This bonehead is still learning, still!

K

Kevin R. Cashen

Joined
Sep 9, 2003
Messages
2,361
Yesterday I thought I heat treated 3 damascus blades, two 320 layer twists and one 160 layer random. I really didn't remember making the random one, but while polishing at 220X the light hit it just right and I saw distinct layering and a very bold raindrop type pools here and there. During the heat treat that blade consistently read different in the Rockwell readings and had me wondering, but the readings were on the high side so I was not worried just puzzled.

Today after polishing I went to etch that damascus and got nothing:confused:, I repolished and etched again and got nothing:confused:. I tried other acids until the light went on and I felt like an idiot:o. I had some straight O1 blades in that drawer where those damascus ones were kept. O1 is rather prone to alloy banding and spheroidizing will accentuate it, what looked exactly like damascus was banding patterned by my forging. Since I use high temp salts for austenitizing, my soak is more than enough to wipe out banding and all my pretty random damascus vanished :(.

What I take away from this is that banding can be pretty striking and look so much like pattern welding that without etching it can even fool and old timer, and it can be surprising how effective proper soaking can be in totally obliterating it.

Since my heat treat for my pattern welded blades incorporates the needs of O1 quite well I am able to laugh at this mishap since the blade is came out good after all.
 
Gotta love those happy mistakes :D. I remember asking My old teacher Kurt about the same effect on ATS34, it even showed up on the factory barstock, they can be really cool patterns that would be neat if they could be replicated in damascus.
 
I'm just glad I never do stuff like that. :D Is anyway to save the banding and not hurt the integrity of the blade?
 
I hate it when that happens:D

On the reverse end, I did the HT on a blade three times with poor results before the light went on and I realized the blank was in the wrong stack after grinding. It was D-2 and not 1095.
Stacy
 
Ryan Minchew said:
I'm just glad I never do stuff like that. :D Is anyway to save the banding and not hurt the integrity of the blade?
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Most often the banding consists of all the good stuff you need to engage in the soaking process in order to properly heat treat your blade. Segregated steel has many issues attached that are best avoided, so the best way to go if you want pattern welding could be to learn the techniques and do the work required to make the real thing instead of sacrificing good steel for a visual effect. :(
 
I had some crazy weirdness in a bar of W2 that I forged out. I swore it was damascus as this is what it looked like after a light etch. look in the upper left of this pic and youll see the cool looking banding and swirling. Pics dont do it justice because in person the entire blade has lots of cool woodgrain pattern. I thought I had done something good and later was told I just didnt do the HT quite well enough to get that banding out of the steel.

wood2.jpg


And in this one you can see it right near the hamon:
wood.jpg
 
Hey Kevin....... Been there....done that. Theres not often that a day goes by when I don't goof something up in the shop. Most of the time I feel like I spend more time learning how NOT to do something, than I do learning how to do it correctly (meaning only having to do it once). I think the mark of a "professional" is being able to just smile at those things and keep going, like you have. Good on ya!
 
Ed,

A wiser man than me once said "all we can expect when learning something is to first learn all the wrong ways of doing something, and then stop doing them". I hope someday I can eliminate more of my wrong ways :D

Mike
 
Try making a complex billet of damascus and forging a blade from it. Then ginding, heat treating and hand sanding. Only after etching do you realize you used similar (or the same!) steels in the mix. Talk about a "duh" moment.

That blade went into the drawer to occasionally remind me to pay attention.

Cheers,

TV

Terry L. Vandeventer
ABS Mastersmith
 
tvandeventer said:
Try making a complex billet of damascus and forging a blade from it. Then ginding, heat treating and hand sanding. Only after etching do you realize you used similar (or the same!) steels in the mix. Talk about a "duh" moment.

That blade went into the drawer to occasionally remind me to pay attention.

Cheers,

TV

Terry L. Vandeventer
ABS Mastersmith
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Im sorry but that is just awesome! Sometimes the most epic failures are the best memories.
 
wiggins said:
Kevin,

Even with the soak time, don't forget that the more severe the quench....:)
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Oh, that reminds the Bill, I meant to ask Doc Batson about the severe quench two weeks ago in Arkansas and forgot. I will have to touch base with him about it in Atlanta;).
 
Ed Caffrey said:
Hey Kevin....... Been there....done that. Theres not often that a day goes by when I don't goof something up in the shop. Most of the time I feel like I spend more time learning how NOT to do something, than I do learning how to do it correctly (meaning only having to do it once). I think the mark of a "professional" is being able to just smile at those things and keep going, like you have. Good on ya!
Click to expand...


Ed, I used to curse and throw things when mishaps occurred, but with age has come an uncanny ability to smile, file the information away as a lesson learned and carry on with the work. I have come to embrace the unpredictable disasters as the most valuable of lessons, and occasionally you get these type where you get a good dose of reality up side the head and still have a good knife in the end:thumbup:.
 
I recall Bill Moran telling me about his quest to make pattern welded steel. He said he tried 50 different way of doing it.....and found 49 that didn't work. He said he was glad that the first try wasn't the right one, or he never would have known what not to do.
Stacy
 
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