This is HERESY!!! Knife Opinions

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Quiet said:
I mean, you come in here, to a section that's called "Traditional Folders and Fixed Blades" and then make disparaging comments about how Chinese import knives are better than the products of two traditional* American companies...
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Not OP, but I'd like to remind those who may have forgotten of the fact that, towards the end, many traditional American (and British) cutlery companies were producing at such a low level of quality that they went completely out of business.

China has no monopoly on crappy workmanship and I'd say only India, Pakistan, and the United States give them a run for their yuan on that front. Or maybe I've just been unlucky with USA-made stuff lately. My first car was a '69 Mustang, second was a '68 Chevelle, third was a '94 Cherokee, fourth was a '97 Camry -- and that sealed the deal. I don't see myself driving an American car ever again. My current, a '16 Tacoma, was made in Mexico and that suits me fine. I like to spend my money on things that last and see no value in a bunch of nonsensical flag waving. Seems to me, what America produces the most of is lawyers and legislation.

Maybe if I were the overly sentimental type it would pain me to say that all of the Rosecraft Blades' offerings I've acquired lately have made my Case knives appear as though they were assembled by drunken and enraged baboons. I still buy Case knives, carry them, use them, and love them -- but calling the truth "disparaging comments" is going a little far. I wonder how many "American Made Knives" are being produced using Chinese-made milling machines. Probably more than most would suspect.
 
birdsbeaks said:
Not OP, but I'd like to remind those who may have forgotten of the fact that, towards the end, many traditional American (and British) cutlery companies were producing at such a low level of quality that they went completely out of business.

China has no monopoly on crappy workmanship and I'd say only India, Pakistan, and the United States give them a run for their yuan on that front. Or maybe I've just been unlucky with USA-made stuff lately. My first car was a '69 Mustang, second was a '68 Chevelle, third was a '94 Cherokee, fourth was a '97 Camry -- and that sealed the deal. I don't see myself driving an American car ever again. My current, a '16 Tacoma, was made in Mexico and that suits me fine. I like to spend my money on things that last and see no value in a bunch of nonsensical flag waving. Seems to me, what America produces the most of is lawyers and legislation.

Maybe if I were the overly sentimental type it would pain me to say that all of the Rosecraft Blades' offerings I've acquired lately have made my Case knives appear as though they were assembled by drunken and enraged baboons. I still buy Case knives, carry them, use them, and love them -- but calling the truth "disparaging comments" is going a little far. I wonder how many "American Made Knives" are being produced using Chinese-made milling machines. Probably more than most would suspect.
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Calling your opinion, or an opinion you agree with "the truth" is going a little far as well.

Secondly, maybe try buying an American vehicle from this century? The 90s were a bad time for virtually every car manufacturer, come on now. :rolleyes:

Signed,

A guy who has owned virtually nothing but American made cars for the last twenty years.
 
Just wait til rosecraft get the full case spectrum of colour and jiggings going...I suggest the rise of Chinese built traditionals is another factor of change during the last 10-15 yrs...politics and working conditions aside...who is it whom is moving OS...?
 
meako said:
Just wait til rosecraft get the full case spectrum of colour and jiggings going...I suggest the rise of Chinese built traditionals is another factor of change during the last 10-15 yrs...politics and working conditions aside...who is it whom is moving OS...?
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I agree- it used to be that I would write off any knife that came from China; skeptical of its quality. It seems that the demand for more traditional options, cheaper, has driven China into producing higher quality stuff. All opinions and politics aside, I think it’s objectively true. The A.G. Russell’s, the RRR… it’s different than in the early 90’s, flipping through the SMKW catalog.
 
hornetguy said:
... so would it hurt you to put a tie on once in a while? I mean, come on, you should strive to look professional..... 🤣 🤣

edit: of course, you should staple the end of the tie to your shirt, to avoid un-seemly messes at the lathe..... o_O 😂
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They always say… don’t dress for the job you have. Dress for the accident you want.
 
meako said:
Just wait til rosecraft get the full case spectrum of colour and jiggings going...I suggest the rise of Chinese built traditionals is another factor of change during the last 10-15 yrs...politics and working conditions aside...who is it whom is moving OS...?
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I'm done with the "(insert pejorative of your choice here) scramble" and pretending that "the secondary market" is somehow different than "buying knives from scalpers".

If quality Chinese-made traditionals are available to leisurely purchase from an accountable online storefront, then that's what I'm moving to and would, of course, be overjoyed with a wider variety of cover, jigging, and pattern options.

When "buying American" becomes a headache, that's when I, unapologetically, stop doing it.
 
birdsbeaks said:
I'm done with the "(insert pejorative of your choice here) scramble" and pretending that "the secondary market" is somehow different than "buying knives from scalpers".

If quality Chinese-made traditionals are available to leisurely purchase from an accountable online storefront, then that's what I'm moving to and would, of course, be overjoyed with a wider variety of cover, jigging, and pattern options.

When "buying American" becomes a headache, that's when I, unapologetically, stop doing it.
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The only thing I'll say is that it sounds like you're talking about GEC and that ilk.
Case is out there- producing a product.
Maybe not my favorite product, but after trying some of the Rough Ryders and seeing the lack luster designs of the RRR's, I'd go for a Case before I would abandon the American market all together.
 
EngrSorenson said:
The only thing I'll say is that it sounds like you're talking about GEC and that ilk.
Case is out there- producing a product.
Maybe not my favorite product, but after trying some of the Rough Ryders and seeing the lack luster designs of the RRR's, I'd go for a Case before I would abandon the American market all together.
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I ❤️ my Case BackPocket in S35VN and jigged Buffalo horn. It's one of my most carried knives lately, but -- it was fairly expensive for what it is, it wasn't exactly easy to track down, and it has gaps and minor blade centering (no rubbing tho 👍) issues that not a single one of my Rosecraft examples exhibit for roughly a third of the asking price. Oh, and I had to reglue the shield on my Backpocket back in place after it fell out after a week of use (I don't mind as I used a higher quality glue than Case because I'm not trying to hit profit goals).

Hope it doesn't sound as though I feel abused, I don't, it just seems as though some markets value my currency more than others and that informs my future purchasing decisions.

https://imgur.com/a/Q706Fo3
https://imgur.com/a/mvZ6sk6
https://imgur.com/a/yDuPVBD
 
birdsbeaks said:
Hope it doesn't sound as though I feel abused, I don't, it just seems as though some markets value my currency more than others and that informs my future purchasing decisions.
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No, not at all, but there is no free lunch.
Either someone, somewhere, is getting short-changed for better/equivalent work, or materials aren't quite the same.

American's are relatively expensive compared to some other countries who are a little more desperate, and I'm sure the standard of living of American cutlers is below average. I hope one day Case kicks it up a notch and makes consistently better products, but with that will come a cost; one that I'm honestly willing to pay at this point.

I think companies like GEC have shown us that there's a hunger for high quality, almost flawless traditional knives. Case might benefit from that.
 
EngrSorenson said:
No, not at all, but there is no free lunch.
Either someone, somewhere, is getting short-changed for better/equivalent work, or materials aren't quite the same.

American's are relatively expensive compared to some other countries who are a little more desperate, and I'm sure the standard of living of American cutlers is below average. I hope one day Case kicks it up a notch and makes consistently better products, but with that will come a cost; one that I'm honestly willing to pay at this point.

I think companies like GEC have shown us that there's a hunger for high quality, almost flawless traditional knives. Case might benefit from that.
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Agree entirely. For the pocket cutlery "Iron Triangle" of "Consistent High Quality", "Widespread Availability" and "Low Cost" -- within reason, I'll always choose to sacrifice "Low Cost." If Case would get on board with that logic, as a consumer - I'd hold up my end of the bargain.

The truth is, with few exceptions, I'm entirely ignorant of the specifics of day-to-day life for the average Chinese person. What I might call an unhealthy Work/Life balance, they may be entirely comfortable with. All I think I know about it originates from sources who have proven themselves inaccurate at best - and propagandists at worst.

The image below includes knives from 'merica, Italy, England, China, Japan, Germany, Switzerland, South Africa, and France -- it's like a whole Epcot Center in there. This picture is only to demonstrate that I'll be sold a good knife at a good price from anywhere -- what I won't be sold is a fleecing based on nationalistic motivations.

https://imgur.com/a/7bEM9Nf
 
I’d echo black mamba black mamba on the rise of the straight edge primary blade. This seems to have been a British thing but it was not too popular here in the US until recently.

We can extend this to Barlow and bottle-opener mania and, I think, attribute most of, if not all of these trends squarely to this very porch.

The straight edge thing may also have come indirectly from modern knives, which tend to have one blade, that’s rather big. My take is that a lot of converts from moderns seek out single blade knives, tend to prefer bigger patterns, and also want their blade to look funky/cool/unique, which might explain the rise of the wharncliffe. But the sheepsfoot and lambsfoot? I’m gonna blame Jack Black Jack Black !
 
birdsbeaks said:
The truth is, with few exceptions, I'm entirely ignorant of the specifics of day-to-day life for the average Chinese person. What I might call an unhealthy Work/Life balance, they may be entirely comfortable with.
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I've been to china and spent time around average people. Lovely people who are mostly preoccupied with ensuring I'm comfortable and getting pictures taken with a white guy. I've ridden the bus in the less touristy areas and I've seen the destitution. Cities smell like sewers, farm houses fall into disrepair and are tarped to keep water out, old women are bent over permanently from harvesting rice all their lives. It's objectively not good; I still feel uncomfortable just thinking about the fundamental ways that I'm more fortunate than some of them.

Ultimately I don't think it matters- the purchasing choices we make will probably never be able to solve problems for people in far off countries. They're skilled people, though- just like any American- and totally capable of producing good stuff. My experience is that a Chinese equivalent of old school New England Ingenuity is alive and well among the regular people in China who make do with what they have. If RRR didn't come up with such weird and tacky designs, I'd probably have a couple.

Alas, I think the connection between traditional slip joint knives and Western Europeans will always make other sources feel less legitimate to some people, and that might go for me too, if I'm honest.
 
After being amused by the responses in this thread, it got me thinking about 15 years ago. It turns out I joined BF 15yrs and 1 month ago (hey! Nobody wished me happy anniversary). I don’t think I found The Porch until about 10 years ago. GEC brought me in, rediscovering Case and Schrade USA hooked me.

Many of the changes have been well captured already. The recent popularity of traditional knives is the one that surprises me the most. I guess I can brag that I loved them before they were cool…again.

dantzk8 dantzk8 - hard use or dumb use? 😂 In most other forums here that would result in a tactical ninja flame war! Subtle funny. I like it.
 
Getting back to the question from post # 1, I think the main change in the state of knives today that stands out to me is that there is no denying that Chinese produced traditional style pocketknives are getting better and better. I personally am not a fan, and I don't think they are equivalent to US made knives yet. But I can see the line blurring more over the next 10-20 years, especially as automated machining practices become even more refined, and the need for skilled hand labor diminishes.
 
- some interesting comments and observations here.

Perhaps one thing to sit back and consider, is the knife industry is a most highly competitive market - worldwide - and highly evolving. Have a long article written by Emerson, the US designer/maker, and it dates from around 2011 - he makes some clear and succinct points about the making of tactical folders, and already some aspects of what he's stated are now not quite correct due to evolution of steels and manufacturing bases. Same for many things.

There are guys out there buying all sorts o' utter crap (to me) which they obviously love..........and there is an ever increasing, it appears, large section of younger guys than ever before buying expensive stuff too. Very expensive.

Whatever you say, whatever your thoughts, there's a far, far wider choice of knives than ever before.

The car market is evolving, the computer, the cellphone market - they're all evolving. So too are knives, but in many countries as well now, shaped by some degree, through political pressures.

Steels (powdered technology) and mechanisation (CNC and the like) is getting more sophisticated, and in many cases as the hype decreases, so does the price.

Personally, I abhor many 'tactical' knives being produced, see them as commercial evolution within our sharp world, not an evolution of knives per se. Yeah, I know, I'll get shouted down...

Many, many more than we realise, designers and manufacturers, are having their products made in China. Harley Davidsons are also made in the Far East (and they're blimmin' excellent). The people in the factories making these goods are people - sure, we may not like the governments that ultimately control them. That's life. I was born/brought up in Africa........I still go on safari to SA, cos I love it - but any idea what my thoughts are about the government there......? I utterly despise what BenchMade did to Lone Wolf knives.............good n bad everywhere.

Are Case knives that bad..? Well, there's some that are not so good, but very, very many happy guys n gals out there that sport one, or two, or very many with great pride and joy. I've had a Fallkniven or two that was not so good too. It happens.

One thing's for sure........we're all spoilt for choice, basically very much a win-win. Overall, we should be wholly grateful.
 
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Chui Chui Wise words indeed, such is the flux of change. As for political aspects & ethics, there's probably no regime in the world that doesn't carry out outrages against people, the environment, decency in some way or other - the unpleasant totality of homo sapiens. So I feel moral outrage against one country or other and blind adherence to another is absurd based on products.

As for the increasing popularity of straight edged primary blades in the USA , it might be the case that they've taken off but it's hard to gauge , this Forum is a very tiny part of the cutlery world. Moreover, the rise in custom makers may have contributed to this, Tony Bose liked the Wharncliffe for instance and French knives have always been big on straight edged knives for the centuries, it's not all just Laguioles ;)
 
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