This is very upsetting....to me as a knifemaker and as a father

Daniel Koster

www.kosterknives.com
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Oct 18, 2001
Messages
20,978
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/12/education/12discipline.html?no_interstitial

It’s a Fork, It’s a Spoon, It’s a ... Weapon?

NEWARK, Del. — Finding character witnesses when you are 6 years old is not easy. But there was Zachary Christie last week at a school disciplinary committee hearing with his karate instructor and his mother’s fiancé by his side to vouch for him.

Zachary’s offense? Taking a camping utensil that can serve as a knife, fork and spoon to school. He was so excited about recently joining the Cub Scouts that he wanted to use it at lunch. School officials concluded that he had violated their zero-tolerance policy on weapons, and Zachary was suspended and now faces 45 days in the district’s reform school.

“It just seems unfair,” Zachary said, pausing as he practiced writing lower-case letters with his mother, who is home-schooling him while the family tries to overturn his punishment.

Spurred in part by the Columbine and Virginia Tech shootings, many school districts around the country adopted zero-tolerance policies on the possession of weapons on school grounds. More recently, there has been growing debate over whether the policies have gone too far.

But, based on the code of conduct for the Christina School District, where Zachary is a first grader, school officials had no choice. They had to suspend him because, “regardless of possessor’s intent,” knives are banned.
But the question on the minds of residents here is: Why do school officials not have more discretion in such cases?

“Zachary wears a suit and tie some days to school by his own choice because he takes school so seriously,” said Debbie Christie, Zachary’s mother, who started a Web site, helpzachary.com, in hopes of recruiting supporters to pressure the local school board at its next open meeting on Tuesday. “He is not some sort of threat to his classmates.”

Still, some school administrators argue that it is difficult to distinguish innocent pranks and mistakes from more serious threats, and that the policies must be strict to protect students.

“There is no parent who wants to get a phone call where they hear that their child no longer has two good seeing eyes because there was a scuffle and someone pulled out a knife,” said George Evans, the president of the Christina district’s school board. He defended the decision, but added that the board might adjust the rules when it comes to younger children like Zachary.

Critics contend that zero-tolerance policies like those in the Christina district have led to sharp increases in suspensions and expulsions, often putting children on the streets or in other places where their behavior only worsens, and that the policies undermine the ability of school officials to use common sense in handling minor infractions.

For Delaware, Zachary’s case is especially frustrating because last year state lawmakers tried to make disciplinary rules more flexible by giving local boards authority to, “on a case-by-case basis, modify the terms of the expulsion.”
The law was introduced after a third-grade girl was expelled for a year because her grandmother had sent a birthday cake to school, along with a knife to cut it. The teacher called the principal — but not before using the knife to cut and serve the cake.

In Zachary’s case, the state’s new law did not help because it mentions only expulsion and does not explicitly address suspensions. A revised law is being drafted to include suspensions.

“We didn’t want our son becoming the poster child for this,” Ms. Christie said, “but this is out of control.”

In a letter to the district’s disciplinary committee, State Representative Teresa L. Schooley, Democrat of Newark, wrote, “I am asking each of you to consider the situation, get all the facts, find out about Zach and his family and then act with common sense for the well-being of this child.”

Education experts say that zero-tolerance policies initially allowed authorities more leeway in punishing students, but were applied in a discriminatory fashion. Many studies indicate that African-Americans were several times more likely to be suspended or expelled than other students for the same offenses.

“The result of those studies is that more school districts have removed discretion in applying the disciplinary policies to avoid criticism of being biased,” said Ronnie Casella, an associate professor of education at Central Connecticut State University who has written about school violence. He added that there is no evidence that zero-tolerance policies make schools safer.

Other school districts are also trying to address problems they say have stemmed in part from overly strict zero-tolerance policies.
In Baltimore, around 10,000 students, about 12 percent of the city’s enrollment, were suspended during the 2006-7 school year, mostly for disruption and insubordination, according to a report by the Open Society Institute-Baltimore. School officials there are rewriting the disciplinary code, to route students to counseling rather than suspension.

In Milwaukee, where school officials reported that 40 percent of ninth graders had been suspended at least once in the 2006-7 school year, the superintendent has encouraged teachers not to overreact to student misconduct.

“Something has to change,” said Dodi Herbert, whose 13-year old son, Kyle, was suspended in May and ordered to attend the Christina district’s reform school for 45 days after another student dropped a pocket knife in his lap. School officials declined to comment on the case for reasons of privacy.
Ms. Herbert, who said her son was a straight-A student, has since been home-schooling him instead of sending him to the reform school.

The Christina school district attracted similar controversy in 2007 when it expelled a seventh-grade girl who had used a utility knife to cut windows out of a paper house for a class project.

Charles P. Ewing, a professor of law and psychology at the University at Buffalo Law School who has written about school safety issues, said he favored a strict zero-tolerance approach.

“There are still serious threats every day in schools,” Dr. Ewing said, adding that giving school officials discretion holds the potential for discrimination and requires the kind of threat assessments that only law enforcement is equipped to make.

In the 2005-6 school year, 86 percent of public schools reported at least one violent crime, theft or other crime, according to the most recent federal survey.

And yet, federal studies by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and another by the Department of Justice show that the rate of school-related homicides and nonfatal violence has fallen over most of the past decade.

Educational experts say the decline is less a result of zero-tolerance policies than of other programs like peer mediation, student support groups and adult mentorships, as well as an overall decrease in all forms of crime.
For Zachary, it is not school violence that has left him reluctant to return to classes.

“I just think the other kids may tease me for being in trouble,” he said, pausing before adding, “but I think the rules are what is wrong, not me.”
 
I have a son in Cub Scouts, and he has his own SAK (My First Victorinox). And it is for this very reason (above) that I have talked to him probably 100 times about never taking it to school. Thankfully he is naturally cautious. But what about when my 'next-in-line' joins up....? (the one that is not-so-cautious).


This kind of legislation has always been frustrating...


The one last week about the Eagle Scout with the knife in his car - getting it trouble for it - was just as troubling.



Dan
 
Zero tolerence policies are idiotic no matter how good there intentions are. I don't have kids but I would let them carry a SAK to school if they wanted. I would just tell them that it stays in the pocket. If they got caught, I would just move them to a new school. But that's easy for me to say.

Good luck with your little hellion.:D
 
I posted on this elsewhere in a pretty negative tone. One thing is clear though, while the legality of the situation may not allow for discretionary decision, at the level of the teacher and school there is individual discretionary capacity. The lunch room teacher could have simply asked for the knife and provided a little phone call to the parents to inform them of the seriousness of the situation. The principle could have done the same.

Basically the teacher and principal at that school decided to be class act a-holes and go the route they did. I hope the citizens of that community pressure the local board to make their lives as much hell as they did to the parents and little boy who were so harshly treated as an example of poor decision making.
 
Reminds me of the kindergärtner who's mom put a plastic knife in his lunch box to cut peach slices who had the same result.
Too bad the courts don't treat child abusers/molesters/crank heads/con men with the same tolerance!
My HS daughters school has in every classroom a small poster stating that any weapon will result in expulsion-but of course it doesn't define what a weapon is.(so I had to take away her pen,pencil,metal ruler,compass,divider,hair brush,keys,lollipop(Dumdum brand),hair clip,string(Garrott),boots,textbooks and high velocity book swinging device (AKA-backpack),notebooks,etc....Wow I didn't realize how dangerous she was.She is now only allowed a blue,green,red and yellow Crayola crayons now but I suspect she has inserted them with sharpened tungsten rod inserts with out telling me(I have no idea where that idea came from)....some things dad's don't need to know!-LOL
Seriously,Zero tolerance is for simple people with simple minds (sheepeople)typically leaning to the off balance side, direction to the left.
Plus-Don't forget the cub scouts must be a right wing Pre-paramilitary group training for the right wing Boy Scouts Paramilitary group-Don't beleive me???-lol-I saw it in a movie called Red Dawn.
 
UK & America arn't that different, silly over the top rules.

Yes some children would use it was a weapon but in a case like this its pretty bloody obvious that he was an excited child and nothing more.
 
Yep, I read this yesterday online.
This is pathetic. It seems some in our country have lost their minds......... if they ever had one to begin with.
Common sense has been thrown out the window......... :( .. :mad:
 
Looks like they came to their senses:

http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,565640,00.html

Board Scales Back 45 Day Suspension for Scout, 6, who Brought Camping Utensil to School
Tuesday , October 13, 2009

Delaware first-grader who faced a lengthy punishment for bringing his favorite utensil to school — a combination folding knife, fork and spoon — has gotten a reprieve.

The school board made a hasty change to its strict code of conduct Tuesday night.

The seven-member board voted unanimously to reduce the punishment for kindergartners and first-graders who bring weapons to school or commit other violent offenses to a suspension ranging from three to five days.

Zachary Christie, 6, had faced 45 days in an alternative school for troublemakers after he brought the utensil to school with the intent of using it to eat his lunch.

The punishment is one of several in recent years that has sparked national debate on whether school systems have gone too far with zero tolerance policies.

Zachary's mother, Debbie Christie, attended the meeting to appealing her son's suspension at the school board meeting

In an interview on CBS' "Early Show" on Tuesday, Zachary said weapons don't belong in school, but the punishment shouldn't be so bad.

At least one school board member agreed.

"The policy, of course, needs some additional flexibility," John Mackenzie, a school board member told The Associated Press before the meeting. "Politically, zero tolerance is what everybody clamors for, until we start to realize how harsh zero tolerance can be."

The change was recommended by the district discipline director, Sharon Denney, who had been studying possible changes to the code of conduct before the incident, said Wendy Lapham, a spokeswoman for the school district.

The school board is not bound by that recommended change, and more changes are likely in the future, Lapham said.

"We're continuing to work towards making a code of conduct that does allow us to have the flexibility that we need," Lapham said.

State Democratic Rep. Terry Schooley sponsored a bill that gave districts more flexibility on punishments, but the law applies to expulsions, not suspensions. She was moved to act after a fifth-grader in the same school district was expelled last year for bringing a birthday cake and a serrated knife to cut it with. The child's expulsion was overturned.

"A state law can't cover every little circumstance that happens in a school district," she said.

Mackenzie said teachers and administrators have felt compelled to ignore the policy on occasion and he's surprised that didn't happen in Zachary's case.

The American Psychological Association has argued that strict zero-tolerance rules hurt student achievement and can even make schools less safe.

"When that common sense is missing, it sends a message of inconsistency to students, which actually creates a less safe environment," said Kenneth S. Trump, president of National School Safety and Security Services, a consulting firm. "People have to understand that assessing on a case-by-case basis doesn't automatically equate to being soft or unsafe."
 
We had a case here in SC recently where a student athlete was actually expelled for his involvement in a fight. Evidently, he tried to break up a fight amongst other students and amidst the brawl, he struck another student as a reflex to being struck several times himself. He immediately went to the office, informed administrators of what had happened and his involvement and was expelled. An appeal and review of video surveillance confirmed his story and he has now be readmitted.

All of these stories are just mind-blowing. Unfortunately, these "zero-tolerance" policies were inacted in response to accusations of discrimination, supposedly because a disproportionate number of African American students were receiving harsh punishments whereas white students were not.
 
He was using his tool as the tool that it was meant to be. He used it to eat his lunch. Now they're teaching him that it's a weapon. He now calls it a weapon when before this, he only saw it as an eating utencil. That's want they taught this good kid.. So SAD:(
 
Yep I carried a pocket knife most days also.

Senior year, when football was over we all had 7th period PE. We didn't have to do anything after football season. Combine that with a 6th period study hall and an understanding teacher........ we went hunting many a day.

And yes, we either had our guns in the vehicle, locked in our football lockers or in that "understanding" teachers room.

Nobody ever got shot or stabbed by one of us either. Imagine that..... :)

We would be criminals now and locked away forever........ ;)
Goodness me, how times have changed.
 
I Live in America, not the UK or Australia...This Liberal crap is really going to try to do away with Guns and knives...When the knives are gone then there will be no Blade Forum...Just a thought...No Guns, no knives, no freedom, no bill of rights. No children will own any guns or knives, next it will the grown ups...Thought control is on its way....My opinion of coarse...2010 elections are coming up...just remember that....GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!!!!!!!
 
That makes me sad,

I had a similiary disturbing experience in high school. I used to make fire crackers ( NOT PIPE BOMBS!!! ) in my garage for fun. all cardboard and paper. Well the Ok. City bombing happened, and all the sudden everyone was looking for terrorists, and well, I got arrested -- more like tackled by the police in my front yard leaving for class. They raided my parents house , I mean TORE THE PLACE TO SHREDS, detonated my piggybank in my room, because "it's a booby trap" and charged me with 24 felony counts of manufactoring explosives, transportation ( because I took them out to a field to play with ), and detonation of explosives. No prom, home coming... nada for me in HS. a few thousand dollars later and the "he's asian it's part of his culture" argument. I had the charges reduced. It put a serious dent in my faith when it came to the local law enforcement.

And come to find out later, the detective that pursued my case in the beginning had this huge write up about me saying I was a mastermind bomber, drug dealer, horrible person...etc. Appearently he had been following me around for 2 years looking for some excuse to arrest me, and it all stemmed from a incident exactly 2 years before.
This jerk had been coming to my parents at the dead of night going through our garage, garbage, yard... everything without a warrent.
A "friend" from school had broken into me parents and stole all my cash and some expensive electronics. I knew it was him, what I didn't know was he had been in trouble for drugs previously and was an informant. When the police questioned him about the incident, he told them I was a kingpin drug dealer and he had broken in to collect evidence???!!!?? ( yeah I smoked a little in HS, but kingpin I was not)

When my father called to check up on the case, the detective shows up at our house the next day ( never returning my father's call ), as soon as school was done for the day, knowing my father was not home, forced his way into our home, and starts rummaging through my drawers and closets. What was I to do? I was 15, my father wasn't home, I was scared. He finds nothing, and on the way out the door, he says "You won't know when, but I'll be back with a warrant one day to arrest you, I'll follow you everywhere" and that's exactly what he did :(

I have no faith in our law enforcement anymore.
 
Last edited:
The other kid in NY didn't have this outcome. The actually added 15 days to his suspension.
His 3" folder knife was in his trunk and was part of an emergency kit which is recommended by NY.
 
That's a shame!-they should give him a metal!
There should be a natonal award for "great american doing right but then done wrong by the the guberment"

The law actually allows for some common sense action by school boards. I think the link above explains it near the end of the page. The state government has nothing to do with it. The School, Board are the ones who could reverse it but won't and added 15 days.

Yet the knife is not considered a weapon by the New York State Education Department — definitions and punishments are left up to local school boards to decide.

"Districts by law are given a great deal of discretion for the conditions they impose," said Jonathan Burman, spokesman for the Education Department.

"The discipline that's meted out ... [is] a matter of local discretion," he said, and "simply here if the school board decides to make a change in their policy it's a matter for them to decide."


Someone needs to track down the email address of the Superintendant there.
 
Back
Top