Thoughts about the safety of bench grinder paper wheels

theonew

theonew

Joined
May 16, 2006
Messages
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I regularly see these recommended here as a super fast way of achieving a highly polished edge on knives. While I have learned to free hand sharpen all of my blades to a hair splitting edge using diamond and ceramic hones, sometimes the time involved is just too much. Sure I could send them out, but I'm a real DIY type of guy and would prefer to do this at home but I don't have much recent experience using a bench grinder.

From what I've read about these wheels they are very well manufactured and seem that they would be highly unlikely to break apart at high speeds, though obviously it is still a possibility no matter how perfect the QC of the manufacturer is.

What scares me the most though is that given the density of the wheels and the high speed of the rotation, the forces involved would be quite extreme and dangerous. If I were to misjudge the angle as I sharpen towards the tip, the wheel could catch the edge and quickly hurl the knife wildly about :eek: Perhaps a less dense cardboard wheel, made out of something like corrugated cardboard, would be more forgiving of mistakes and be in general safer to use.

While a piece of softer cardboard might be more likely to rip off if a mistake was made, its lack of density and mass would probably render it harmless (assuming eye protection is worn). Also a less rigid cardboard wheel that has more give to it seems like it might be able to yield better results with practice.

Any and all thoughts are most welcome :D
 
Interesting. Quite genius, actually. A turning of the tables...so to speak. Very thought provoking. Tantalizing. Simply put yet extravagantly complicated. Daring even...... ((( :D )))

Yes, yes. I do believe these compressed paper discs...ahem - cardboard wheels ....... are deserving of further discussion. It is now evident that, whilst we debated the merits and demerits of DIY and professionally manufactured discs, we were blinded! New information has arisen. A new theory is on the table......

Are you ready? Are you ready? Let's get it on!
 
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If you put your work at the right spot on the wheel it can only fly away from you. At the worst it may bounce off the grinder or the base in your direction. The knife will gouge the wheel before it grabs the knife. Applying rouge to the wheel will make it a little harder and dense. Wire wheels and cloth buffing wheels can be much more dangerous as they will grab the work if you are not careful. Practice with a blunt piece of metal so you can judge what angles, pressure and area of the wheel is safest. A wheel that is too soft and not cohesive will wear out quickly or self destruct. If a wheel of any type loses large pieces then it will become unbalanced and tear itself apart quickly, especially at high RPMs. I have never had a paper wheel come apart on me. I have destroyed cloth and wire wheels by using too much pressure on them. Most grinders will bog down before you apply too much pressure. My DIY grinders don't and extra care must be taken when using them. I always use gloves, safety glasses and/or a face shield.
 
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DutchV said:
Cardboard is cool. If I'm wrong, tell me why & how.
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Never said it wasn't. Just describing how different wheels react. Just trying to pass on some info. as I have 35 years experience with many different types of grinders, grinding tools, wheels and materials. You guys can do whatever you want, I don't really care. You have all the facts, it's all on you:).
 
SOLEIL said:
Never said it wasn't. Just describing how different wheels react. Just trying to pass on some info. as I have 35 years experience with many different types of grinders, grinding tools, wheels and materials. You guys can do whatever you want, I don't really care. You have all the facts, it's all on you:).
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Hey bro, not trying to start a fight, just trying to learn. If the home-brew wheels are "dangerous", please tell me how or why. Otherwise, I'll use reasonable caution (guards, face shields, etc.) and proceed as I like.

Seems to me that the big risk is that the wheel will catch the work and throw it across the room; and not that the wheel will fly apart.
 
SOLEIL said:
Look here: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=598409
This horse has already been beaten to death.
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No, you're just pointing to a dead end. Saying "this is bad" doesn't make it so.

Please tell me why these wheels are bad, or just shut up. Your call.

(( Telling people to "shut up" on a discussion forum is a contradiction in terms.
And sounds a lot like a personal insult, which we prefer not to see around here. ))
 
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DutchV said:
No, you're just pointing to a dead end. Saying "this is bad" doesn't make it so.

Please tell me why these wheels are bad, or just shut up. Your call.
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I never stated that cardboard wheels were bad. I'm just passing on information and trying to show people where to find more. If your not satisfied with it it is no reason to get belligerent or put words in my mouth. This forum is for information exchange, not for starting petty arguments.
 
SOLEIL said:
I never stated that cardboard wheels were bad. I'm just passing on information and trying to show people where to find more. If your not satisfied with it it is no reason to get belligerent or put words in my mouth. This forum is for information exchange, not for starting petty arguments.
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The other thread you referenced doesn't have any useful information; just opinions. Maybe you'd have some facts I could review? Perhaps some OSHA statistics?
 
I would advise you all to stop flinging sh*t. Spark already isn't happy with the immaturity of the argument as it is.

Bottom line, the faster it moves and the sharper it is, the more dangerous it is. The real bottom line is with any tool safety is knowledge and is king. I don't seem much danger in most power tools if the operator is paying attention, wearing appropriate safety gear (leather apron, sleeves, gloves and a face shield are a great idea) and is using equipment under rated "loads" or operating perimeters will be pretty safe.

Use some common sense. Generally speaking the people on this forum USUALLY show above average common sense, and uncommon sense, so stay safe and think.
 
65535 said:
I would advise you all to stop flinging sh*t. Spark already isn't happy with the immaturity of the argument as it is.

Bottom line, the faster it moves and the sharper it is, the more dangerous it is. The real bottom line is with any tool safety is knowledge and is king. I don't seem much danger in most power tools if the operator is paying attention, wearing appropriate safety gear (leather apron, sleeves, gloves and a face shield are a great idea) and is using equipment under rated "loads" or operating perimeters will be pretty safe.

Use some common sense. Generally speaking the people on this forum USUALLY show above average common sense, and uncommon sense, so stay safe and think.
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+1 on that advice:thumbup:
 
when i bought my first set of paper wheels in 91, i wished the guy had another set but he didnt.
i didnt know that koval knives carried them and i thought of making my own too. i didnt actually make a set, i just looked at a piece of cardboard along side the paper ones. i decided the holes in the cardboard itself was enough of a weak spot to allow a tip to penetrate down inside should the spine have a good upsweep to it. i decided against making a set. believe me, if there was a safe way to have made a set that wouldnt kill or maime someone, i would have made them. why skimp on something that could possibly cause injury to you. for the price of 2 cases of beer and a bottle of wine you can get a set of the "paper wheels"
reason i tell people about mikes wheels is the same reason i would tell someone to eat at wendys rather than mcdonalds. they are similar but wendys is better.
it no different than someone saying one lansky type system is better than another.
 
richard j said:
i decided the holes in the cardboard itself was enough of a weak spot to allow a tip to penetrate down inside should the spine have a good upsweep to it.
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Indeed I could see that being a problem.

Let me ask you though, are the paper wheels the very last thing you use on your edges or do you do any hand stropping afterwards?
 
yes they are the last thing i use, i posted quite a few times that after i get done with the paper wheel the edge is sharp. ask macgregor22, he watched me sharpen his knife yesterday and it only took me 30 seconds (it was a busse) to remove the burr and polish the edge. from start to finish on most pocket knife blades it takes less than a minute to do a blade and get it razor sharp. why add an extra step to something so simple. if you have a belt sander, whats $15 for a single buffing wheel thats safe to use.
 
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I do believe the paper wheels that are sold for sharpening have been tested by an independent lab to prove they will not come apart and are safe at rated speed. Even though homemade wheels may work just fine why risk it?? I am all for DIY projects as long as safety is not sacrificed.
 
I'm going to get a set from a supplier in NM. About $42.

Richard, a guy named Mike SMith contacted me but when I asked him for a quote on the 8" wheels, he never replied. I don;t know what's up.

It's gonna take me awhile to get used to buffing my blades edge up!
 
richard j said:
i decided the holes in the cardboard itself was enough of a weak spot to allow a tip to penetrate down inside should the spine have a good upsweep to it.
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I've been reading these threads, and that seems to be the best argument I've heard against using cardboard.

the price of 2 cases of beer and a bottle of wine you can get a set of the "paper wheels"
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Richard, you obviously drink the good stuff. :D:p
 
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