Thoughts about the safety of bench grinder paper wheels

It's gonna take me awhile to get used to buffing my blades edge up :eek:. stretch, NO NO NO. the wheel in my vids is rotating to me. the edge faces the same direction. never go into a wheel or you are asking for trouble. there is a safety reminder on evert wheel showing you what to do and what not to do. the way i sharpen is the way i do it but i have been at it for 17 years so i'm used to it and i have never had an accident with the paper wheels other than cutting myself from the knife being razor sharp.
 
It take me few minutes to restore (not create) hair whittling sharpness on any of my knife. I guess setting up wheel etc, may take more time then do it free hands. And it is much much less dangerous to me, less dangerous to edge, less expensive and provides me some kind of meditation...

I can understand need for power tool if you are doing 100 knives a day, but for few knives a week all this troubles just does not make sense - IMHO.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Regarding the wheels disintegrating and flying shooting at you... :D
how much do they weigh?
how stiff are they ?
Take one wheel and throw it as hard as you can at a cardboard box.
Cut one up so its pointy, and try stabbing some cardboard with it.
That should give you some idea of the lethal potential of these things.
Weight/stiffness have more role than speed in the damage they can cause
(See Mythbusters "killer tissue box" episode for ideas, tissuebox at 70mph might poke your eye, but will barely break skin (if at all)).

The way I see it, worst case scenario if the wheel disintegrates,
you get a handful of bruises/welts/abrasions,
with very low chance of splinters.
Protect your eyes, make sure steel don't fly.
 
Richard, I was kidding about the "edge up" sharpening! ((( :D )))

I know better than that. I know you have to stab it in tip first.....fast...so it doesn;t grab..... :D

What's up with a $15 wheel when my supplier in NM wants $42? There's some "Big 3" conspiratorial issues here...
 
richard j said:
nozh, by the time you get your stones out and set up, i'm done and hair splitting sharp.
Click to expand...

My stones always out I just use them when needed. Right now I do edge retention testing and sharpen a lot - one knife in a few days. Almost like 3-4 in a week!

Can you explain me difference for me between 2 minutes I spend and 30 seconds you do? I can understand when you sharpening knives for living it does matter, but for me absolutely not.

Now you for years developed skills to make it fast and safe. But I do not sharpening knives for living and for last year probably sharpen total 40-50 knives and I guess I did much more then many enthusiasts here. We do not have this skills and do not have volume of knives to be able develop this skills.

To me your superiority in speed mean nothing as well as I think for most here. I rather spend another few minutes on my hobby expanding enjoyment rather then be done in 30 sec.

Fact that this may be dangerous, may damage edge, noisy, expensive and hard to buy is more important for me then few minutes less. This is professional equipment for professional sharpeners, cooks etc. And for knife enthusiasts even like me it is bit overkill - IMHO.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
My stones always out I just use them when needed. Right now I do edge retention testing and sharpen a lot - one knife in a few days. Almost like 3-4 in a week!

Can you explain me difference for me between 2 minutes I spend and 30 seconds you do? I can understand when you sharpening knives for living it does matter, but for me absolutely not.

Now you for years developed skills to make it fast and safe. But I do not sharpening knives for living and for last year probably sharpen total 40-50 knives and I guess I did much more then many enthusiasts here. We do not have this skills and do not have volume of knives to be able develop this skills.

To me your superiority in speed mean nothing as well as I think for most here. I rather spend another few minutes on my hobby expanding enjoyment rather then be done in 30 sec.

Fact that this may be dangerous, may damage edge, noisy, expensive and hard to buy is more important for me then few minutes less. This is professional equipment for professional sharpeners, cooks etc. And for knife enthusiasts even like me it is bit overkill - IMHO.

Thanks, Vassili.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but a sub $100 bench grinder and a $40 set of sharpening wheels, that come with compound included, is far from overkill, even for the casual hobbyist. It's not like richard is talking about some massive wharehouse setup using millions of dollars worth of equipment. And as much as many of us love knives, we don't all have the time to sit around doing "meditative sharpening" by hand. Many of us are far to busy to sit back, relax, and do some sharpening at the drop of a hat. Unfortunately, schedule often prevents it. To knock the merits of the professionally made paper wheel sharpening system like you have seems uncalled for.
 
richard j said:
ask macgregor22, he watched me sharpen his knife yesterday and it only took me 30 seconds (it was a busse) to remove the burr and polish the edge.
Click to expand...

I was just rereading this thread and noticed this. Letting macgregor22 walk away with a razor sharp Busse is the pinnacle of irresponsibility :eek:;):D
 
richard j said:
It's gonna take me awhile to get used to buffing my blades edge up :eek:. stretch, NO NO NO. the wheel in my vids is rotating to me. the edge faces the same direction. never go into a wheel or you are asking for trouble. there is a safety reminder on evert wheel showing you what to do and what not to do. the way i sharpen is the way i do it but i have been at it for 17 years so i'm used to it and i have never had an accident with the paper wheels other than cutting myself from the knife being razor sharp.
Click to expand...

What are your thoughts on setting up exactly the opposite direction?

Wheel rotating away from you and edge facing away from you? The only problem I could see is you not being able to see what you are doing since you will have to hold the knife past the top of the wheel so it doesn't fling up in your face.

Have you ever had a lock failure on a folder while sharpening? Can you sharpen non-locking folders on the wheels?
 
The softer a wheel is the more likely it is to grab the knife and throw it. 99% of the time you are not going to be able to hold on to a knife or what ever your putting to a wheel if it grabs it. The fact the home made cardboard wheel is full of holes is just an added danger to something catching.
Does the hard paper wheel produce a hollow ground edge bevel? If so that is reason enough for me to prefer my free hand edges.
 
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myright said:
What are your thoughts on setting up exactly the opposite direction?

Wheel rotating away from you and edge facing away from you? The only problem I could see is you not being able to see what you are doing since you will have to hold the knife past the top of the wheel so it doesn't fling up in your face.

Have you ever had a lock failure on a folder while sharpening? Can you sharpen non-locking folders on the wheels?
Click to expand...

Good point. I've got my grinder mounted backwards for just this reason. I can work on top of the wheels, and get a much better look at what I'm doing.
 
db said:
Does the hard paper wheel produce a hollow ground edge bevel? If so that is reason enough for me to prefer my free hand edges.
Click to expand...

You know that's got me wondering, if it leaves a hollow ground bevel to me it's as good as useless, but does the paper have just enough give to leave a bit of a convex edge? If it does I may look into it just to finish sharpen gardening tools after roughing it in with a belt sander.
 
With 8" wheels, one minute on the buffer would be like a pass on a 17 mile long strop. It is much faster than doing it by hand. I apply a microbevel with the wheels, and it goes very quickly. One pass per side on the grit wheel, then one pass per side on the compound. This raises a burr at 220 grit then polishes the edge similar to what it takes a 4000+ grit waterstone followed by stropping. Much faster.

Does have drawbacks, such as the distance between wheels and around the motor limiting blade length or the way you can hold the blade. Plus it isn't as portable.
 
BeatingADeadHorse.jpg
 
hardheart said:
... I apply a microbevel with the wheels, and it goes very quickly....
Click to expand...
This is something I was wondering about ... IMO the microbevel is the key to sharpening, not only making it far easier to maintain a fine edge, but adding significantly to edge retention while still allowing a more optimum geometry.

I take it that some practice is required to do this however ... ? The paper wheel sellers I've seen at shows don't seem to bother with this, instead just hitting the whole bevel. In fact most I've seen show tell-tale buffing of the blade behind the bevel.
 
just10minreader said:
Regarding the wheels disintegrating and flying shooting at you... :D
how much do they weigh?
how stiff are they ?
Take one wheel and throw it as hard as you can at a cardboard box.
Cut one up so its pointy, and try stabbing some cardboard with it.
That should give you some idea of the lethal potential of these things.
Weight/stiffness have more role than speed in the damage they can cause
(See Mythbusters "killer tissue box" episode for ideas, tissuebox at 70mph might poke your eye, but will barely break skin (if at all)).

The way I see it, worst case scenario if the wheel disintegrates,
you get a handful of bruises/welts/abrasions,
with very low chance of splinters.
Protect your eyes, make sure steel don't fly.
Click to expand...

Probably a good comparison of an exploding wheel would be to replace shot in a shot shell with cardboard and fire that point blank into raw meat from about 2 or 3 feet. Just that thought alone brings up scenes of serious damage.
 
myright, i check each folder for problems in sharpening. if its loose, i have enough experience to work around a problem like that, plus i keep my fingers on the scales and not hanging over where they can get cut. a piece of rubber tubing the right size could be pushed up close to where the blade pivots to keep the blade from going closed all the way and give you more to hold onto. i also keep my fingers out of the way should this happen, which i never have had happen and i have sharpened some really loose folders and never have been cut or had the blade close. with double edge daggers, it is very important to practice your pass without the wheel running to see in advance how the blade position will be when reaching the tip. pictures can be of more help in showing how its done so i'll see if i can take some and anyone interested can email me for pictures when i post that i have them. i also told mike that anyone in the us or canada that gets a set from him can email me with their number and forum name and i'll be glad to give them a call to answer any questions. one note here, i have fibromyalgia and right now i feel like i have the flu minus the vever and sickness. i dont sleep and it makes it hard to concentrate at times. so if some of this sounds confusing i'm sure someone who has a set of wheels can explain what i mean much better. and just like driving a car, if you have been drinking or doing anything else, dont get behind or in front of the wheel.
 
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