Thoughts on Buck’s 420HC

[lambertiana]

For many years I have chased the latest and greatest steels, and I am especially fond of steels like S90V, cruwear, and K390.
Last year I picked up a Bantam to be used for dirty work and also as an inexpensive knife that I could hand to a non knife person who asked to borrow it.

After a good amount of use, I have been pleasantly surprised by the performance. It holds up much better than I expected. In abrasive materials it can’t compete with the high vanadium alloys, but in EDC tasks it isn’t that far behind them. And in comparison it is an absolute breeze to sharpen. Kudos to Buck for their heat treat. And most people don’t realize that 420HC is tougher than cruwear, which likely contributes to its good edge stability.

 

[TheFishman]

I bought a 285 Bantam in blaze orange like yours a couple of weeks ago at Walmart for $11. I mainly bought it because it was a Buck and it was extremely cheap. It is now my favorite knife. I have enough knives that I will never wear any of them out from use so it doesn't really matter to me if it is 420HC or Magnacut. Buck's 420HC does what I need it to do and is reasonably priced.

 

[SoDak81]

I like Bucks 420HC a lot and didnt even pay attention to different steel types until a few years ago when I started perusing this forum. I've since bought Bucks in S30v, S35vn and Magnacut. While I haven't used my S30v or Magnacut Bucks very much, S35vn has quickly become my favorite steel. I notice a big difference in how long an edge lasts on Buck's S35vn vs their 420HC for my type of use and I can get an edge back to razor sharp easily enough.

 

[kyhunt]

I’m going to be honest. Years ago I got a little caught up with the latest greatest steels. But I came to the realization a few years back that several of the basic steels that some major manufacturers use is more than enough for my use.

I might get shunned for this but I’m fine with Bucks 420, Case CV or SS and whatever Victorinox uses. I’ve honestly never had an issue with any of them. I honestly have no need for the high end steels.

 

[GPyro]

I think Buck's 420hc is underrated.

 

[hunterjrg]

I’m going to be honest. Years ago I got a little caught up with the latest greatest steels. But I came to the realization a few years back that several of the basic steels that some major manufacturers use is more than enough for my use.

I might get shunned for this but I’m fine with Bucks 420, Case CV or SS and whatever Victorinox uses. I’ve honestly never had an issue with any of them. I honestly have no need for the high end steels.

They work just fine and have so for years. I could get away with just using 420 or CV but where’s the fun in that.

 

[DeSotoSky]

(Repost)
This chart was in the 2025 catalog. Never really pay much attention to steels because I am primarily a collector and they all cut air perfectly fine. I am more interested in visibly attractive features. It blows me away how well 420HC performs with the best in all categories except edge retention. Makes me wonder why Buck messes around with all the different steels. Pick 2, 420HC and MagnaCut or S35VN. Everything else pales in comparison (on paper). LE's generally don't get used and 420HC polishes really nice. Was a bit surprised on how 5160 compared to 420HC. The chart implies the Froe would have performed just as well with 420HC and wouldn't need painted . I'm thinking 420HC IS the supersteel.

 

[kyhunt]

They work just fine and have so for years. I could get away with just using 420 or CV but where’s the fun in that.

Actually for me it made it more fun. For several years I avoided some knives because they were just 420 or similar. Now I enjoy them all.

 

[arizonaranchman]

I like something easy to sharpen. I don't use my knives so hard they need to have super-steels. Most of my life I've carried 1095 blades and never felt I was missing out on anything. My carry knife is used every day, multiple times a day on light simple daily tasks. A simple common steel that sharpens easily on an Arkansas stone is just fine.

 

[kyhunt]

(Repost)
This chart was in the 2025 catalog. Never really pay much attention to steels because I am primarily a collector and they all cut air perfectly fine. I am more interested in visibly attractive features. It blows me away how well 420HC performs with the best in all categories except edge retention. Makes me wonder why Buck messes around with all the different steels. Pick 2, 420HC and MagnaCut or S35VN. Everything else pales in comparison (on paper). LE's generally don't get used and 420HC polishes really nice. Was a bit surprised on how 5160 compared to 420HC. The chart implies the Froe would have performed just as well with 420HC and wouldn't need painted . I'm thinking 420HC IS the supersteel.

They probably only mess with the other steels because that’s what people want. I was talking to a knife maker in Mi and he said the only reason he bothered with magnacut is because that’s what folks wanted. Personally he wasn’t impressed with it. They have to give people what they want. Next year it will be something else.

 

[knarfeng]

(Repost)
This chart was in the 2025 catalog. Never really pay much attention to steels because I am primarily a collector and they all cut air perfectly fine. I am more interested in visibly attractive features. It blows me away how well 420HC performs with the best in all categories except edge retention. Makes me wonder why Buck messes around with all the different steels. Pick 2, 420HC and MagnaCut or S35VN. Everything else pales in comparison (on paper). LE's generally don't get used and 420HC polishes really nice. Was a bit surprised on how 5160 compared to 420HC. The chart implies the Froe would have performed just as well with 420HC and wouldn't need painted . I'm thinking 420HC IS the supersteel.

The difference is in the "edge retention" column. Whether that property is really important depends on what you are doing.
If you are actually doing something for which edge retention is a beneficial characteristic, then the other steels are going to be useful. If you aren't doing that, then you won't get any benefit from an alloy with greater abrasion resistance (edge retention).

Personally, I often cut a lot of synthetic abrasive materials. And I find that a steel with carbides is beneficial for that. So I appreciate the other alloys.

But also, you need to remember that cutting is geometry more than steel. Buck's Edge 2000 was optimized for everyday cutting, though it's not as good for things such as peeling apples. When folks compare steels, they forget that if they are also changing knife brands as well as blade alloiys, then the geometry is also changing. That clouds the comparison.

Here's the thread in which CJ Buck talks about that Edge 2000 geometry. The charts are missing, but the text is still there.

Thread 'CATRA Edge Testing Results'

Apr 16, 2001

Here is the information from the engineers at Buck. Bill Keys and Pete Quintanilla (of pcks fame). If these images do not come through here is a web address to visit... following all this is a write up that Bill Keys did on steels and angles.

http://www.buckknives.com/bldfor.html

EFFECTS ON EDGE SHARPNESS
STEEL TYPES AND EDGE GEOMETRY

by Bill Keys
Engineering Supervisor
Buck Knives, Inc.

As with many complex issues, there are several different factors that can and do influence the...

• CJ Buck
• Replies: 27
• Forum: Buck Knives

 

[GPyro]

(Repost)
This chart was in the 2025 catalog. Never really pay much attention to steels because I am primarily a collector and they all cut air perfectly fine. I am more interested in visibly attractive features. It blows me away how well 420HC performs with the best in all categories except edge retention. Makes me wonder why Buck messes around with all the different steels. Pick 2, 420HC and MagnaCut or S35VN. Everything else pales in comparison (on paper). LE's generally don't get used and 420HC polishes really nice. Was a bit surprised on how 5160 compared to 420HC. The chart implies the Froe would have performed just as well with 420HC and wouldn't need painted . I'm thinking 420HC IS the supersteel.

I agree with your line of thinking.
If I'm buying a Custom Shop knife knowing I don't plan to use it, the 420hc will do just fine.(even if you do use it, it still performs....)

I think a 420hc Froe is a great idea! Or even a 104.

 

[Generalist]

(Repost)
This chart was in the 2025 catalog. Never really pay much attention to steels because I am primarily a collector and they all cut air perfectly fine. I am more interested in visibly attractive features. It blows me away how well 420HC performs with the best in all categories except edge retention. Makes me wonder why Buck messes around with all the different steels. Pick 2, 420HC and MagnaCut or S35VN. Everything else pales in comparison (on paper). LE's generally don't get used and 420HC polishes really nice. Was a bit surprised on how 5160 compared to 420HC. The chart implies the Froe would have performed just as well with 420HC and wouldn't need painted . I'm thinking 420HC IS the supersteel.

It's funny that both edge retention and ease of sharpening were included. They're opposite sides of the same coin, and I've wondered if part of why Buck shows both rather than just edge retention is to make 420HC look better?

 

[Old Hunter]

Would one of the steel aficionados please explain the toughness characteristic? The other three steel characteristics are self explanatory, and anyone using and maintaining a blade edge understands them. However, “Toughness” doesn’t tell me in what way and in what circumstances; hammering, bending/flexibility, sticking, etc.?? Thanks, BB

 

[ferider]

Would one of the steel aficionados please explain the toughness characteristic? The other three steel characteristics are self explanatory, and anyone using and maintaining a blade edge understands them. However, “Toughness” doesn’t tell me in what way and in what circumstances; hammering, bending/flexibility, sticking, etc.?? Thanks, BB

For me, the main thing is less chipping - I started liking Cruwear, 3V, etc. after having to sharpen out chips of Spyderco's M390 multiple times - a PITA.

I like 420HC. Kind of an acquired taste though, since I started this knife journey in 2018 with super steels (after carrying mainly SAKs all my life).

These days I like other classic steels as well, AEB-L (similar to Bucks 420HC), ATS34/154CM, and classic tool steels with a bit of Chrome, even less than Cruwear and 3V. Like A2, M4, etc.

 

[oldmanwilly]

Would one of the steel aficionados please explain the toughness characteristic? The other three steel characteristics are self explanatory, and anyone using and maintaining a blade edge understands them. However, “Toughness” doesn’t tell me in what way and in what circumstances; hammering, bending/flexibility, sticking, etc.?? Thanks, BB

To build on from ferider , toughness does also help with "edge retention" in that it helps prevent edge damage in use. An edge loses sharpness from abrasion, but it also loses sharpness from micro chips, cracks and edge deformation. A steel with higher toughness can avoid such damage better than a harder, more brittle steel that might technically rank higher for edge retention or abrasion resistance. Such a steel can be ground thinner to maximize cutting ability without risking unnecessary edge damage. This all means that steels with a good balance of toughness and edge retention can appear to hold and edge longer in real world use.

For example, AEB-L has a reputation as a great steel for working knives as it is easy to sharpen and appears to hold an edge for a long time. On paper, its edge retention capabilities are middling, but it's very tough. So, makers will often heat treat it at a higher RC to maximize hardness then grind it thin to maximize cutting ability. Since it's very tough, the edge likely won't chip and fracture when you accidentally ding the edge against a plate, staples, work surfaces, rocks and sand, etc. So the end user gets a knife that seems to keep cutting forever and ever despite not having supersteel edge retention.

I think Buck does it's best to ensure the cutting ability of its knives in 420HC by treating it to a sufficiently hard RC and grinding it to a thin geometry, knowing that its inherent toughness will help maintain a working edge for a good while under normal use.

I still prefer steels like AEB-L, 12C27N, and 14C28N, but Buck's 420HC does well enough for the price and intended use.

 

[lambertiana]

Would one of the steel aficionados please explain the toughness characteristic? The other three steel characteristics are self explanatory, and anyone using and maintaining a blade edge understands them. However, “Toughness” doesn’t tell me in what way and in what circumstances; hammering, bending/flexibility, sticking, etc.?? Thanks, BB

To build on from ferider , toughness does also help with "edge retention" in that it helps prevent edge damage in use. An edge loses sharpness from abrasion, but it also loses sharpness from micro chips, cracks and edge deformation. A steel with higher toughness can avoid such damage better than a harder, more brittle steel that might technically rank higher for edge retention or abrasion resistance. Such a steel can be ground thinner to maximize cutting ability without risking unnecessary edge damage. This all means that steels with a good balance of toughness and edge retention can appear to hold and edge longer in real world use.

For example, AEB-L has a reputation as a great steel for working knives as it is easy to sharpen and appears to hold an edge for a long time. On paper, its edge retention capabilities are middling, but it's very tough. So, makers will often heat treat it at a higher RC to maximize hardness then grind it thin to maximize cutting ability. Since it's very tough, the edge likely won't chip and fracture when you accidentally ding the edge against a plate, staples, work surfaces, rocks and sand, etc. So the end user gets a knife that seems to keep cutting forever and ever despite not having supersteel edge retention.

I think Buck does it's best to ensure the cutting ability of its knives in 420HC by treating it to a sufficiently hard RC and grinding it to a thin geometry, knowing that its inherent toughness will help maintain a working edge for a good while under normal use.

I still prefer steels like AEB-L, 12C27N, and 14C28N, but Buck's 420HC does well enough for the price and intended use.

oldmanwilly got it right. Technically, IIRC, toughness is measured using the charpy impact test to determine how much it chips with a side impact. Higher toughness means that the edge resists cracks/chips etc, and therefore a higher toughness means better edge stability. And it can be ground thinner for better cutting efficiency.

People usually equate CATRA results with overall edgeholding. But CATRA only shows how resistant the steel is to a very abrasive medium (silica embedded card stock). If you are cutting a lot of abrasive material, CATRA results can be a good guide. But if you are cutting less abrasive hard materials, like plastic or wood, other factors become more important, toughness being one of the biggest ones.

 

[Hickory n steel]

I love Bucks 420HC, if I have to settle for a blade that can't patina Bucks 420HC is my favorite.
I have zero interest in any of the other fancy steels they're constantly offering every month that are supposedly better.

It performs as well as I could possibly need a blade to perform and any stainless steel that takes more effort to sharpen is inferior in my book, those steels just aren't for me.

 

[J Buck]

I'm a fan of Bucks 420HC. Easy to sharpen, holds an edge pretty well. I usually just touch up on a piece of cardboard every couple of days. But, I grew up and learned to sharpen on 440 A/C way back in the day, so I like those old school blades too. I don't re-call having anything in the newer 30SV or whatever is the latest, most of which I don't even know.. Certainly no interest in spending $$$ on anything just for the blade steel if 440,425,or 420HC will do...
And probably to be honest here, I rather prefer 440C. I have 2 or 3 of my regular users in 440C. I know there is quite a difference between these, but it's what I'm familiar with.

 

[brownshoe]

(Repost)
This chart was in the 2025 catalog. Never really pay much attention to steels because I am primarily a collector and they all cut air perfectly fine. I am more interested in visibly attractive features. It blows me away how well 420HC performs with the best in all categories except edge retention. Makes me wonder why Buck messes around with all the different steels. Pick 2, 420HC and MagnaCut or S35VN. Everything else pales in comparison (on paper). LE's generally don't get used and 420HC polishes really nice. Was a bit surprised on how 5160 compared to 420HC. The chart implies the Froe would have performed just as well with 420HC and wouldn't need painted . I'm thinking 420HC IS the supersteel.

That chart is confusing to me. Does anyone know the units for the 0 - 10 y-axis and what are the four tests that define the properties of Toughness, Ease of Sharpening, etc.?