Thoughts on Emerson Commander

calyth

calyth

#!/bin/sh of a man
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Feb 23, 2002
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Well, I have a friend who, for a reason, have to diver the Commander to me and then pick it up from me, and he told me to try it out.
The wave: I think it has a gadgety feel to it. It takes practice to open the Wave right, and I found that jackets tends to get into the way (very often in winter weather) I could get about 50% of them fully open the liner snap on the tang no problem. As other have stated, the wave would be useless if you're backed into the wall.
Thumb disk: No where as near as good as a thumb hole, perhaps because the arc of the movement is bigger than normally I'm accustomed to. Also it might be the fact that I was playing with the Starmate and the feeling of the Emerson is different.
Note: I think my friend requested the sender to tighten the pivot; that likely caused it to rub the liner somewhat. Some adjustment should get it back to normal.
Edge: I wonder if there's a widespread misunderstanding or something like that, the Commander came with a saber flat ground with single sided edge, much like the CRKT M16 Tanto that I have before. Cuts very well, probably because of the recurve, but it have the same problem of single sided edge. It does tend to curve a bit when it cuts, but it's probably no where near as bad as Single side grind.
Handle: Definately a fighting knife. The large choil prevents your index finger from slipping up, and the handle design (and the spine of the blade) allows a very comfortable grip where your thumb rests on the textured spine. I found that the G10 is not as grippy as the newer Spyderco Military/Starmate, but I think it's better than the BM AFCK Axis that this same friend owns.
I think it's a great knife, and for me, with a few modification (like using thumbhole to open) would definately make it a favourite for me.
Looking for you guys' input.
 
I got a serious love/hate relationship with Emersons.

The Wave is altogether pretty cool, I don't have any problem opening it without the backwards motion, as long as I keep myself trained to invert the knife counterclockwise a few degrees. Thing is that it's still not as reliable an opener as my good ole Wegner with a few zip ties through the Spydie hole.

No problems with the thumb disc. Slightly less preferred than an opening hole, but that's only if I'm absolutely splitting hairs here.

the edge- YECH! BAH! PHOOEY! Hate chisel ground edges. they cut like sh!t, and I'm not impressed with the "ease of sharpening" I also don't find my chisel ground emersons to have a stronger edge than any other knife. Yeah...I know..Emerson doesn't make knives to cut tomatoes and stuff, they make big tough, tactical knives for tough tactical duty...

:yawn:

That being said the Emerson P-SARK I carry every day does do most things real well, although it was terribly dull when I got it. I took the edge down to 25 degrees and it does a really reasonable job now...errr...you know..for being chisel ground...Guess I technically lost some edge strength, but I can't tell yet. Thing scares the hairs off my forearm a half inch before it reaches 'em now.

The liner locks have NOT impressed me. I've owned two commanders, and one P-SARK and all three have had the locks wear out, quickly. Well before any other liner locks I've owned. I think Emerson liner locks are flat out crappy, especially for what you pay. Granted, Emerson has always been decent about warranty repair on these locks, but I'm still having to send them in where as other knives I own continue to function flawlessly.

So, with a chisel ground edge, and a weak lock, why do I carry an Emerson pretty much as an EDC?

DESIGN!! The design of my P-SARK is the best I've ever owned for a duty knife. the handle feels great, the wave opening is awesome, and I love the blade shape. The tip is sharp enough to chip ice, and pierce, but yet dull enough to not injur a patient during an extrication unless I did something REALLY piss stupid with it. The part of the blade that sticks out the front of the handle when folded could bust a windshield in a pinch, although I admit, I haven't tried it yet. I do know it'll dent the hell outta 25 year old hardened pine boards. Between working EMS and security, it's a constant companion. Also, it's easily deniable as any sort of weapon. We're not even supposed to carry a knife at my security job, but by the time I got done telling my boss all the wonders of a P-SARK you'd have thought it the most benign tactical knife ever made.:D

One of these days Emerson will start using a decent liner lock, and I suppose I can keep living with the chisel ground blade. Guess until then I'll just have to keep learning to live without my Emerson for two or three weeks outta every year until locks improve.

To give my most candid perspective, which may result in a lynching I believe that Emerson production knives are extremely well designed, but otherwise riding on the name.
 
I must admit that the Commander's handle (much alike your P-SARK) is very comfy, more comfortable than many of the Spydercos that I've laid my hand on or own.
I don't have the experience on the lock (hell I'm just keeping it for a day or two) but I might be able to ask my friend about it after he messes with it.
I couldn't fix the blade centering, and he'll look at it when he get it. I think he might need to send it back to EKI.
As for the lynching, it happens with many of the companies here ;):D
 
Originally posted by calyth
As other have stated, the wave would be useless if you're backed into the wall.
Click to expand...

This isn't so. I just tested this theory with mine. I am wearing blue jeans and stood with my heels, butt, back, both shoulderblades against the wall. Had absolutely no trouble opening it with the wave. If anyone cannot do it, they are using an overly exaggerated draw that isn't necessary. I wouldn't post this if I didn't just try it out. Like I said, not one problem.

Mike
 
I've never been convinced the "Wave" has any advantage at all for quick deployment is a dangerous situation. I do think t's a slick idea.., and when it works it certainly has a "cool factor".

Having said that.., if we're splitting hairs here..., it's not just the speed that the blade is out of the frame.., but what postion you are in when that happens.

Whatever the small amount of difference the Wave affords in that domain is negated (in my opinion).., by the fact that the movement it takes to open the knife does not facilitate a good defensive/offensive positioning. Of course this can quickly be achieved.., but all things considered..., it simply has no advantage tactically over any other wellmade knife that can be deployed quickly into an appropriate ready position.

As for edge dynamics.., I'm just not a fan of Emersons at all.., but no need to rant about that...lol. Been done.


"Hunters seek what they [WANT].., Seekers hunt what they [NEED]"
 
Originally posted by ExamonLyf

As for edge dynamics.., I'm just not a fan of Emersons at all.., but no need to rant about that...lol. Been done.
Click to expand...
I think the lynchers are tired of us giving the Emerson a bad name ;) :D
 
I am torn, I have been wanting a Commander for some time and have been working the angles lately to try to get one. And I will, However I have had mixed feelings about Emerson. My CQC-7 is simple one of my favorite folders. But I busted out one of my Ravens last night and really messed with it for the first time. I love the design, but would agree that the liner is trash, failing the spine wack test twice in a row, with the blade being either stiff and having a rubbing feeling to it or if I loosen the pivot screw enough to make it smoother, it has too much blade play, there is no happy medium. This is my first real beef with Emerson and I am working on getting it taken care of now. Hopefully everything works out, I have heard great things about there shop turnaround time
 
I have owned numerous Emersons and I look on them very favorably. I think that you can't beat the ergonomics of the SpecWar, Commander, or the CQC-7 and the blades are built for abuse. I really like the wave although I understand why some people don't. As far as locks go, I've only had one Emerson that shot craps and that was my first, the Mini CQC-7 B. The big problem here was the liner slipping away from the blade tang. It never folded, but got pretty loose. I really need to send her in for a tune up, but I've just never gotten around to it. For now, I carry a Mini Commander and I like it alot :D
Matt
 
Originally posted by calyth
The wave: I think it has a gadgety feel to it. It takes practice to open the Wave right,

Thumb disk: No where as near as good as a thumb hole, perhaps because the arc of the movement is bigger than normally I'm accustomed to. Also it might be the fact that I was playing with the Starmate and the feeling of the Emerson is different.
Click to expand...
The only problem I have with the Wave is that it tends to open the knife as I withdraw it even if I don't want it to. It's too reliable. (Maybe my pants are just tighter than yours :D)

The thumb disk works fine on a smaller knife like the Raven. The problem with the Commander is that it is a very wide knife with a wide blade. The trick is not to push the thumb disk away from the handle, but to push it forward toward the bolster. Then the blade will just snap out. This will open most any knife quickly, including my otherwise sluggishly opening Sebenzas.

The S&W FL2 framelock has a very similar width and thumb disk, and opens the same way: hard if you push away, easy if you push forward.
 
I have a 2000 Commander, and love the design. The handle ergonomics and blade shape are great. I have found a few points were it falls short though.

The Lock: Recently my lock has began slipping when moderate pressure is applied to the spine. I took apart the knife, cleaned it up well, and put it all back together. After a wave opening lockup is once again solid. I don't like the fact that this play developed at all, and from what I have read will probably start again. Thinking about the design I believe the cause is the lock design. The liners are titanium, and are thinner than those on most other liner locks. As I understand it titanium is not as hard as the hardened steel, and thus when the thin liner constantly rubs against the hardened steel, it wears away quickly. I also think that the reason the lock engament points are ground so extremly is to compensate for this wear. This allows the lock to slip when pressure is applied to the spine. I might be wrong, but it makes sense to me. It also seems like it might be a bit of a gamble as some people never report having the problem, and some people do. Might have been a problem with only the 2000 knives.

The Action: As TheBadGuy reports, if the pivot is loosened enough to give a smooth action there is blade play. When tightened down to remove all play the action is rough. I have cleaned and lubed with no change. I find this to be a lot less of a problem than the lock.

I would buy a 2002 or 1998 Commander if I knew for sure that the lock problems were not in these models. I think that the overall design features make it a knife worth owning, but the possibility of lock failure doesn't please me at all.
 
Originally posted by Jazzman
...The big problem here was the liner slipping away from the blade tang. It never folded, but got pretty loose. I really need to send her in for a tune up, but I've just never gotten around to it....
Matt
Click to expand...

Send it in. I just got my Mini Commander back from EKI. I sent it in with the same problem, and it was fixed with a one-day-in-shop turnaround. Came back with new liner, all new screws, new clip, and possibly new spacer and stop pin. In fact, the only thing I absolutely know for sure wasn't replaced was the original blade. Everything else looks mint.

Mike
 
My '02 Commander has served me just fine thus far. I changed the grind on mine though....much happier with a V.

I've never had any problems with the pivot on any of my Emersons but the linerlock issue has come up twice now. Not a big deal though. It moved fairly quickly the first month but it seems 'set' now even after a number of hard 'wave' openings.

Definitely my favourite knife as far as handle ergo goes but the recurve isn't always easy to sharpen if you leave it too long...also I find that I can't always get the tip as sharp as I'd like it.
 
I have a love/hate relationship with the Commander, too, Runs With Scissors. I could get my old one sharp with the Edgepro. I just don't like the way it cuts. My lock was good. (That same knife serves my friend well.)

However, if I needed a good knife for a camping trip or a prairie dog hunt, and I knew the knife was going to be abused (and I didn't care how it looked when I got back), I would go to PVK and buy one of those ugly green-handled jobbies with the discounted price.

In fact, if money is flush after Christmas, I'm going to do just that. I love my AR, but there are times when a can-opener or a screwdriver is the better tool.
 
I bet you DO love that Mini-COmmander Jazzman! =)

My thoughts on the Mini-Commander...

Great little package, firm lock-up, blade seems to be indestructable. As for chisel-grind, I don't know what all the hullabaloo is about, it cuts, I don't have a problem with it. The handle is probably one of the better, if not best, for a solid grip in a production knife. Between an EKI and any other knife of the same price range, I'd probably have to pick EKI. Then again, personal preference. I like Spydie's a lot too. ^_^ I was probably "spoiled" because my first knife ever was an EKI. Go figure.

Danny

EDIT: Perhaps the liner problems are with the older models? Did you have a 2002 model? Just curious. Cheers!
 
Hey BOk if you read this, who did you get to change the grind on your commander?

Does anyone think a partially serrated commander can be converted to a regular grind?

And how easy is it to put back together if you take it apart?
 
Yup, it serves me well :) I traded away my BT that i bought when they first came out and i'm glad i have one to fill it's shoes!
thanks again!,
Matt
 
medic1210: somehow I missed your first post.
I wonder how you do the wave that way so that you could deploy the Commander without that exaggerated backstroke.
Again, I was holding the blade for jjcoolay here, so I didn't mess around with it much.
I'm sure he'd like you to explain how you do it.
Esav: I don't quite want to know that you wear pants tighter than mine ;) :D j/k
Well I've heard plenty times that Ti liners tend to wear faster because they aren't as hard as stainless liners.... I guess with this kind of feedback that dispels any doubts about that fact.
 
jj - Sean did it for me. He did a nice job of grinding it evenly without spoiling the recurve. Mine is partially serrated...so he just did the plain edge portion for me.

All I did was touch it up a bit on my 204 when I got it back.
 
Originally posted by calyth
medic1210: somehow I missed your first post.
I wonder how you do the wave that way so that you could deploy the Commander without that exaggerated backstroke.
Click to expand...

Take a look at the video on Emerson Website. Click here, then click the Video link on the left. The first video shows very well that the Commander can be opened with very little backward draw. You can tell that the blade doesn't extend beyond the guy's back side. Basically you just draw straight up and point the knife to the rear a bit. No need to exaggerate it.

Mike
 
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