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Thoughts on Emerson Commander
- Thread starter calyth
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 25, 1999
- Messages
- 1,499
After I have heard so many hyping I tried to know this knife closer and even considered picking it up. Since blade shape with almost blunt tip is definitely not in my taste I have inspected several knives pretty carefully at different European blade shows there dealers exposed them. And what I have concluded:
Some words more about EKI tendency to self-hyping. I really do not see what makes them Number 1 for hard use. Or # 2, 3, 4 etc.... It is claimed that their oddly shaped blades with single sided grind are made for additional strength. Hmm, could someone justify sensibly from mechanics standpoint, skipping cool look factor why?
There are so many knives around displaying much better strength, reliability, cutting performance etc., etc. and for far lesser price. Just for example, if I would look for real knife for really hard use 3 times less expensive than Commander Outdoor Edge Magna or CRKT M-18 could run circles around each EKI knife.
Edited for some spelling.
- The blade tip is really far too blunt both for fine tip work and brutal enemys stabbing. Someone should deceive Mr. Emerson that this could be any good for tactical use...
- The handle is very comfortable for me, it really fits my hand like a glove providing great grip security.
- The single sided edge sharpening is definitely not any good for me. Maybe it could be sensible for fighting, killing, destroying etc. but for me it is pretty disputable matter why it should be any better than conventional double sided edge even for mentioned tasks. On the other hand it displays pretty mediocre performance for the most common tasks what could and should be done using a knife. Being forced I could do my job so-so even with such oddly shaped piece, however I do not see any reasons to choose it intentionally.
- Wave opening doesnt appeal to me at all, I consider it as gadget only. The knife opening as itself is only the part of preparing for use. The opening speed shouldnt be mixed with complete knife deployment speed and even more important - reliability. Explanation in real life-threatening situation I would draw such knife from the pocket relying on wave-opening and... would feel myself pretty silly if this wouldnt work this time... I also like to decide by myself when I should open my knife and when to draw only...
- The lockup on the pieces I have inspected was oscillating between mediocre and poor. The liners are too thin, noticeably thinner than on another brand-named liner locks Im familiar with. They are matching the blade tang pretty inconsistently, the pieces I have inspected had liners stopping at different places, starting from the beginning of blade tang width up to complete way to opposite scale. To buy such inconsistently made knife via Internet here in Europe and immediately to send it back to manufacturer for repair or tuning could be quite hassling and expensive event, not excluded even more expensive than the knife itself...
- All pieces I have inspected displayed also pretty mediocre closed position retention. I would never feel myself safely and comfortably with liner lock positioned for tip-up carry in my pocket. Especially with the one having so massive blade.
- The opening disk is OK, it has right dimensions and placed in the right place works well for me.
Some words more about EKI tendency to self-hyping. I really do not see what makes them Number 1 for hard use. Or # 2, 3, 4 etc.... It is claimed that their oddly shaped blades with single sided grind are made for additional strength. Hmm, could someone justify sensibly from mechanics standpoint, skipping cool look factor why?
There are so many knives around displaying much better strength, reliability, cutting performance etc., etc. and for far lesser price. Just for example, if I would look for real knife for really hard use 3 times less expensive than Commander Outdoor Edge Magna or CRKT M-18 could run circles around each EKI knife.
Edited for some spelling.
I've heard so many bad things about Emerson production folders-- particularly Commanders-- that I cannot picture them being anything but utter pieces of $hit, especially for the money. They sound like overrated hunks of crap.
Why spend that kind of money for such a folder? Because it has a gimmicky little opening device? Feh.
I'll take my Al Mar SERE 2000 anyday, when my life depends on it.
Why spend that kind of money for such a folder? Because it has a gimmicky little opening device? Feh.
I'll take my Al Mar SERE 2000 anyday, when my life depends on it.
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2001
- Messages
- 1,015
calyth wrote:
My guess: Made in USA.
Compare prices with other folders that are made in Japan. If you want that "stamp of quality" (or for whatever reason you want to avoid globalized outsourcing) you have to pay extra.
I´ve got a ´98 incoming and know I´ll be happy with it. I have fondled my friends ´98 and ´99 a lot.
/Colinz
My guess: Made in USA.
Compare prices with other folders that are made in Japan. If you want that "stamp of quality" (or for whatever reason you want to avoid globalized outsourcing) you have to pay extra.
I´ve got a ´98 incoming and know I´ll be happy with it. I have fondled my friends ´98 and ´99 a lot.
/Colinz
- Joined
- Nov 25, 1999
- Messages
- 1,499
Colinz,
MICROTECH knives are made in USA too they are priced similarly to EKI but display incomparable level of quality. Probably this list could be continued...
Maybe these companies save hyping costs investing into quality?
BTW, made in USA is not the synonym of quality stamp. Aside mediocre EKI knife quality and execution consistency I could mention more examples Taiwan made GERBER Michael Walker Tactical of their International line displays at least not worse quality than their American made Spectre.
Disclaimer: no bashing is intended, Calyth have asked for opinion and Im expressing mine. Not all opinions should be positive only, right?
Not exactly. All BENCHMADE knives are made in USA, some SPYDERCO ones as well - they are noticeably less expensive than EKI knives and display way higher quality.
MICROTECH knives are made in USA too they are priced similarly to EKI but display incomparable level of quality. Probably this list could be continued...
Maybe these companies save hyping costs investing into quality?
BTW, made in USA is not the synonym of quality stamp. Aside mediocre EKI knife quality and execution consistency I could mention more examples Taiwan made GERBER Michael Walker Tactical of their International line displays at least not worse quality than their American made Spectre.
Disclaimer: no bashing is intended, Calyth have asked for opinion and Im expressing mine. Not all opinions should be positive only, right?
Having owned a bunch of EKI's over the past year or so I feel pretty qualified to judge the knives on their own merits. My conclusion after testing a couple is that indeed EKI hypes itself a bunch. EKI that are custom made may in all likely hood be a different breed.ie) sharper etc etc.
I did a test last year concerning the defensive capabilities of a Comm., Mach1, and CQC7A. These were tested against a zytel Magna, and I believe it was my CS lg. VOyager. No contest what so ever. The Magna and Voyage outcut them all by a very large margin. It never ceases to amaze my that I hear time and again that these knives are made for one thing and one thing only. Well I gotta tell ya, I live in the northeast and in the fall and winter and part of the spring everyone for the most part wears a heavy outer garment. If the EKI's I had had such a problem cutting through a carhart jacket then they aren't gonna cut through most of the coats worn by people around here. I believe I also tried cutting through and old bike jacket I used to wear when I rode my FLH. I had the EKI's as sharp as I could get them. Another noticealbe thing and this is what made me want to do this very unscientific test is that I tried sticking the Comm. point first into a cutting board. Would not stick at all. It did dent it though. Tried the others with same results. The CS and Magna stuck with 0 problem and little effort. The ergo's on the EKI's are a bit better though. Lock up wasn't any better especially on my Comm. That left a bit to be desired.
In conclusion there a great many knives out there on the market today that I belive are hands down better by a long shot than any of the prod. EKI's being produced today. Some are bit more expensive but the majority of the them are equal to or less in price. I also know that EKI knives have there fans and I don't begrudge them one bit. I would like to see however some testing done comparing say a AFCK or M18 to a Comm or CQC7A or whatever. Anyways I agree with pretty much everything Serguisz had said. Keep'em sharp and Happy Holdiays.
PS would like to hear of any of the EKI people testing there knives against a carhart or leather jacket as I did and see if the results are the same.
I did a test last year concerning the defensive capabilities of a Comm., Mach1, and CQC7A. These were tested against a zytel Magna, and I believe it was my CS lg. VOyager. No contest what so ever. The Magna and Voyage outcut them all by a very large margin. It never ceases to amaze my that I hear time and again that these knives are made for one thing and one thing only. Well I gotta tell ya, I live in the northeast and in the fall and winter and part of the spring everyone for the most part wears a heavy outer garment. If the EKI's I had had such a problem cutting through a carhart jacket then they aren't gonna cut through most of the coats worn by people around here. I believe I also tried cutting through and old bike jacket I used to wear when I rode my FLH. I had the EKI's as sharp as I could get them. Another noticealbe thing and this is what made me want to do this very unscientific test is that I tried sticking the Comm. point first into a cutting board. Would not stick at all. It did dent it though. Tried the others with same results. The CS and Magna stuck with 0 problem and little effort. The ergo's on the EKI's are a bit better though. Lock up wasn't any better especially on my Comm. That left a bit to be desired.
In conclusion there a great many knives out there on the market today that I belive are hands down better by a long shot than any of the prod. EKI's being produced today. Some are bit more expensive but the majority of the them are equal to or less in price. I also know that EKI knives have there fans and I don't begrudge them one bit. I would like to see however some testing done comparing say a AFCK or M18 to a Comm or CQC7A or whatever. Anyways I agree with pretty much everything Serguisz had said. Keep'em sharp and Happy Holdiays.
PS would like to hear of any of the EKI people testing there knives against a carhart or leather jacket as I did and see if the results are the same.
- Joined
- Aug 24, 1999
- Messages
- 2,294
EXACTLY! The guy who wins the gunfight is not the one who gets the gun out of the holster first...it's the guy who gets the gun out of the holster, on target, and fires a shot FIRST who wins. And if he can't get it out of the holster reliably to begin with....the statement "I also like to decide by myself when I should open my knife and when to draw only..." sums it up very well
I also agree that the liners are way too THIN.
RL
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2001
- Messages
- 1,015
Sergiusz Mitin wrote:
I agree.
I think that I didn´t relay my thoughts in a clear manor. Let me try to explain.
"Made in USA" - some people think that this supports business in USA. That could be right or wrong depending on what economical philosophy you base your reasoning on (not talking Communism vs Capitalism but rather different forms of capitalism). For some it might be a stamp of quality. For some. Not all and certainly not for me. I look for quality/dollar. So the "Made in USA" remark wasn´t supposed to be meant as a positive remark but more as an explanation to why a product might cost more. I don´t mean that "Made in USA" is worse either, only more expensive in most cases (labor cost).
You mention Benchmade which are nice knives. I don´t know if they are "made" or assembled in USA. The same about Spydercos models like the Gunting. Are they really "Made in USA" or "Assembled in USA"? Anyone care to bring some light here (with first hand knowledge and not assumptions)?
Example:
The Gunting is one model that might be (don´t know the head of marketing at Spyderco or what he/she really thinks) aimed towards the "Pro 2:nd amendment/Pro self preservation" part of the population in USA. Probably one of the more "Made in USA" conscious markets. They might (assumption again) get less profit in the beginnig but if the "Self defense knife" becomes big $$$ market it´s nice to have a big market share from the beginning. A lot of assumptions in this paragraph... The main question is still if Benchmade and/or Spyderco makes a difference between "made" and "assembled".
Microtech are made in the USA according to their site (if my memory serves me right). The ones I have owned and tried has been very good quality. I won´t argue with that. I do not like metal handles in cold weather though, a minor point for some people. A major point for me not to buy that kind of knife as a user.
Sergiusz Mitin wrote:
Or some companies are better at lowering their operational costs (Operational Efficency)? Who knows. We would have to see figures and calculations that aren´t public.
My main point is that production companies rarely sees to the individual consumer but rather to a whole market or a part of a market. That´s probably the main reason why I have started to buy custom knives. You get exactly what you want if you are ready to pay for it.
I think that the ´98 Commander is closer to a custom than to a production knife - if I look to my preferences and compare quality (even to Benchmade and Spyderco). I like the thick liners and the thick scales. The blade is perfect for me. I don´t care if it´s V- or chisel grind. The handle is also perfect for my hand. Love the wave. I´ve never cut so fast with a folder from closed to open position. If you need a more reliable cutting tool - go fixed blade. But when you are in a situation where you can´t "flaunt it" IMO a folder is the way to got and there are only two methods that I like: the wave and the ramp (on my Gunting).
I tried it on a pair of freehanging Docker pants. Cut the leg almost in two (about 45 degree angle). Almost the same result with my Gunting on the other leg. The shorter blade on the G might have led to the lesser (shorter) cut on the leg. I haven´t had the opportunity to try leather or Cordura, yet.
I can however agree with one critique - the liners. I like the thicker ones on the ´98 Commander, why else would I get one from that year?
Not trying to start a flame war or stepping on anyones toes. Just trying to explain my thougts a little better and why I like the Commander.
/Colinz
I agree.
I think that I didn´t relay my thoughts in a clear manor. Let me try to explain.
"Made in USA" - some people think that this supports business in USA. That could be right or wrong depending on what economical philosophy you base your reasoning on (not talking Communism vs Capitalism but rather different forms of capitalism). For some it might be a stamp of quality. For some. Not all and certainly not for me. I look for quality/dollar. So the "Made in USA" remark wasn´t supposed to be meant as a positive remark but more as an explanation to why a product might cost more. I don´t mean that "Made in USA" is worse either, only more expensive in most cases (labor cost).
You mention Benchmade which are nice knives. I don´t know if they are "made" or assembled in USA. The same about Spydercos models like the Gunting. Are they really "Made in USA" or "Assembled in USA"? Anyone care to bring some light here (with first hand knowledge and not assumptions)?
Example:
The Gunting is one model that might be (don´t know the head of marketing at Spyderco or what he/she really thinks) aimed towards the "Pro 2:nd amendment/Pro self preservation" part of the population in USA. Probably one of the more "Made in USA" conscious markets. They might (assumption again) get less profit in the beginnig but if the "Self defense knife" becomes big $$$ market it´s nice to have a big market share from the beginning. A lot of assumptions in this paragraph... The main question is still if Benchmade and/or Spyderco makes a difference between "made" and "assembled".
Microtech are made in the USA according to their site (if my memory serves me right). The ones I have owned and tried has been very good quality. I won´t argue with that. I do not like metal handles in cold weather though, a minor point for some people. A major point for me not to buy that kind of knife as a user.
Sergiusz Mitin wrote:
Or some companies are better at lowering their operational costs (Operational Efficency)? Who knows. We would have to see figures and calculations that aren´t public.
My main point is that production companies rarely sees to the individual consumer but rather to a whole market or a part of a market. That´s probably the main reason why I have started to buy custom knives. You get exactly what you want if you are ready to pay for it.
I think that the ´98 Commander is closer to a custom than to a production knife - if I look to my preferences and compare quality (even to Benchmade and Spyderco). I like the thick liners and the thick scales. The blade is perfect for me. I don´t care if it´s V- or chisel grind. The handle is also perfect for my hand. Love the wave. I´ve never cut so fast with a folder from closed to open position. If you need a more reliable cutting tool - go fixed blade. But when you are in a situation where you can´t "flaunt it" IMO a folder is the way to got and there are only two methods that I like: the wave and the ramp (on my Gunting).
I tried it on a pair of freehanging Docker pants. Cut the leg almost in two (about 45 degree angle). Almost the same result with my Gunting on the other leg. The shorter blade on the G might have led to the lesser (shorter) cut on the leg. I haven´t had the opportunity to try leather or Cordura, yet.
I can however agree with one critique - the liners. I like the thicker ones on the ´98 Commander, why else would I get one from that year?
Not trying to start a flame war or stepping on anyones toes. Just trying to explain my thougts a little better and why I like the Commander.
/Colinz