thoughts on fixed blades

[misanthropist]

A couple of things to note.

Full tang is just plain bad in hard core cold weather.

I like a good thin edge. (Even though I'm getting more and more into the world of Busse...)

God help me.

:thumbup: Cold weather I agree so In comes the Dog father & Dumpster mutt combo with the Resiprene C handle...

I just want to know this...why are a guy from Georgia and a guy from Texas talking about what knives work in cold weather!?!?!?!

I don't find it to be a big problem until things get REALLY cold. You just have to keep your knife under your parka before you use it! But this is true with lots of tools...no good to start swinging your axe in forty below without warming it up first, etc.

I guess though it is an extra step you have to go through if you want to immediately use a knife without gloves. But then I am trying to remember the last time I did anything without gloves when it was even fifteen below...not often!

Great thread! Although I guess I would possibly disagree about the category titles...I don't think there is anything more "survivey" about a larger knife, it is just a tool for a different set of jobs. Are those jobs more "survival" oriented than a smaller, thinner knife? I don't really think so myself.

It's sort of like saying, "there are survival rifles and there are food rifles...survival rifles are battle implements with a .30 cal bore and a detachable magazine, and food rifles are accurate rimfires." But surviving a zombie bear attack isn't MORE surviving than surviving starvation!

 

[Horn Dog]

Hi, pit. I should have known you would hang out here. I see lots of familiar posters. Feels like home already. As a newbie to this forum, I think I'll try something more in a survival skills mode. I tested the Mora 2000 today in my back yard wilderness. In the process of gathering tender for a fire, I stirred up a young raccoon and damaged his home some. Got some good shots of him, though.

 

[Elen]

If it so cold that contact with a full-tang is a concern, chances are you'll have frostbite or worse before you even come in contact with it. If you have good gloves or mittens, full-tang is fine. I've never had a problem in bitter sub-zero temps. It's a theoretical concern, really, but not reality-based. I'm referring to exposed tang.

I'd disagree with that one. But of course, that depends on one's definition for "concern". For me, I tend to do a lot of things with my knives, which translates to having a knife in hand often, and for long times. That, then, means that the knife had better feel good in hand, or I won't want to use it at all. An ice cold piece of steel against my hand really doesn't feel good. At worst, it'll actually stick to the skin, causing a minor amount of pain and general bother. Not fun. Now of course, if you've got gloves on, then it doesn't matter at all whether it's full tang or no, but on the other hand, warm gloves don't exactly make it easier to use a knife with any accuracy, so, at times, you may want to take the gloves off for a while. So, the exposed tang wouldn't be a concern in far below zero Celcius temps in the sense that "this is going to get you killed", but it is very much a concern in the sense that "this is going to be really annoying."

 

[Mtn Hawk]

The bottom line for me is that things don't always go as planned in the wilderness. In an emergency or survival situation a hatchet or large chopping knife (around 10" blade), both as high-quality and unbreakable as possible, and preferably with shock-absorbing handles, would be tools I might not be able to live without, literally. Saws are nice but I wouldn't trust my life to one.

 

[Leanwolf]

ANDREW 7978 - "What's wrong with a full tang in cold weather?? My impression was it was only bad if the tang was full and exposed. I'm sure there is something I am just not aware of."

I've been using full tang knives for so many years I can't remember how long. I will say that the coldest temperature in which I've used a full tang knife outside was in -18* F., at about 12,500 feet altitude in s.w. Colorado, gutting and cleaning an elk.

That thin slice of steel between the scales didn't bother me a bit. Didn't even notice it... and I didn't have gloves on either. :thumbup:

Can't say I've ever had any trouble in cold weather with a full tang knife.

Just my experience.

L.W.

 

[savagesicslayer]

So here are some basic thoughts on knives for each perspective
Survival knife Qual.
Thick spine
Drop point
Full tang
convex grind
Carbon or high end stainless or laminate steel
grip larger than the width of the palm that is comfortable
lanyard hole
5+inch blade
maybe a ricasso to allow the user to choke up on the blade for detailed work.

Sounds like a Fallkniven S1/A1.

 

[pitdog]

Hi, pit. I should have known you would hang out here. I see lots of familiar posters. Feels like home already. As a newbie to this forum, I think I'll try something more in a survival skills mode. I tested the Mora 2000 today in my back yard wilderness. In the process of gathering tender for a fire, I stirred up a young raccoon and damaged his home some. Got some good shots of him, though.

Be sure to post them then Vic !

you will like it here, there is plenty of variety when it comes to different topics and a man with your knife collection is going to be real popular !!!!:thumbup:

 

[Brian Jones]

but it is very much a concern in the sense that "this is going to be really annoying."

This can be true, I agree. I was speaking medically. But the concern is not a trade-off I'm willing to make, because it's minor to me personally.

I've seen too many knife handles fail in harsh conditions that were not full-exposed tang to ever feel comfortable using one again in those conditions. With full-exposed tang, even if the handle slabs break off, you till have an immediately serviceable knife just by holding the tang.

 

[texastonydobbs]

Hi, pit. I should have known you would hang out here. I see lots of familiar posters. Feels like home already. As a newbie to this forum, I think I'll try something more in a survival skills mode. I tested the Mora 2000 today in my back yard wilderness. In the process of gathering tender for a fire, I stirred up a young raccoon and damaged his home some. Got some good shots of him, though.

Glad to see ya over here , This is my home BF W&SS vs the others ,I post and lurk here mainly and venture out from time to time..Welcome HD sit a spell and prop your feet up.....:thumbup:

 

[kgd]

We do spend a great deal of time obsessing in this forum about the perfect knife. I think the OP did a good job trying to bring some balance and provided a nice rationaliziation for the thick vs thin argument.

Thankfully we do have this wonderful talk therapy....Hi, my name is Ken and I have a knife problem...

Psychologically, I think we are all succeptible to this creeping little thought - 'my next purchase is going to be 'the one'. We think that when we do find 'the one' suddenly we will be cured of our sickness. We won't be constantly drooling over on-line knife websites and mags, we won't be endlessly thinking about different steel combinations and their merits, we won't be spending yet another $100 ($200, $300, $650) on the next blade experiment. We won't be endlessly sharpening a perfectly sharp blade because of endless edge retention. We won't be wondering 'If a buck 119 was used to kill an attacking black bear, could I do the same with a mora?' Our wives and loved ones won't roll their eyes at these very obvious eccentricities....we just have to find 'the one'...well you get the point..

The reality seems that few, perhaps none, of us will ever get there. Most of us have several knives of the same type, (some people seem to have several copies of the same exact knife) as well as several knives of different types. I think I've come to grips with my little obsession and reconciled with the fact that I like trying out different knives and I'll probably continue buying different knives and trying them in different combinations.

I don't really know where I sit on the thick versus thin debate. I constantly flip flop between the two sides, usually depending on the last sucessful knife purchase. I try going intermediate and then drift back to one thick or then to thin again. My wish list of purchases include Scandi's and a Ranger Ready Detachment. When I go into the bush, it could be thin + axe or solely one thick knife...My combination of steel will be one thing this week and another next week.

I don't see this attitude of mine changing in the near future. I think bladeforums and WSS made it even worse! Oh well, at least I'm not like my wife and addicted to shoes. That kind of addiction is pretty much useless!

 

[Brian Jones]

kgd, it's all about preference and what works for you, and everyone has different preferences. My posts here, a small fraction of the discussion, are only my personal preferences based on my own experiences. Elen disagreed based on his own experiences. They are both valid. Elen has taught me much just by reading his posts, so when he disagrees with me on something, I sit up and take notice, and study what he has to say very carefully.

I can't begin to tell you how many times this forum has slam-dunked me on certain info I lived by, and made me totally change my mind. That's the beauty of bushcraft: you never stop learning. When you think you've stopped learning, you tend to stop practicing and experimenting. Or you die in a real-world situation from incomplete or incorrect info.

You guys rock. :thumbup:

 

[Elen]

This can be true, I agree. I was speaking medically. But the concern is not a trade-off I'm willing to make, because it's minor to me personally.

I've seen too many knife handles fail in harsh conditions that were not full-exposed tang to ever feel comfortable using one again in those conditions. With full-exposed tang, even if the handle slabs break off, you till have an immediately serviceable knife just by holding the tang.

Yes, with knives that don't have a full tang, if you get unlucky, you can end up having an intact blade but without any kind of handle except a short stick tang (most Moras and other Scandis come to mind here). That would be bad. Personally, I tend to really like the kind of tang design that Fällkniven uses - practically full tang, but not exposed. If the handle does break, then you'll still have some manner of a "handle" left in the tang that you can hold, although it won't be too comfy. But then, you could make it comfier by wrapping some cord around it (I'm thinking most of us carry some type of cord that could be used for this purpose). :thumbup:

 

[texastonydobbs]

Tang ......making me thirsty...

 

[bearthedog]

I think that folks who actually spend time outdoors know what knives work for them in their terrain. If I am walking well-used hiking trials, I may only need a pocket knife or maybe a Mora. If I am going down into the Altamaha River Swamps (Georgia's little Amazon) on foot through the thick stuff, a machete, bowie, or kukri is a very useful thing to have. A smaller swiss army knife and maybe a locking blade folder are useful as well. Here is one of my old low budget combos that worked well there.

Here is an upgrade:

Great point I was going to make. Terrain is the key and so is widely used trails vs. off trail Bushwacking. That is what I think if every week as I enter the outdoors.

 

[Myal]

I an not so sure about the need for a thick spine for a blade to be a "survival" blade .

If its for strength of blade , go for a stronger blade steel maybe ?

I found my solution by making my own blades out of high speed steel , I got a seriously tough knife thatll take a beating for stunts as wood splitting and prying etc but will still slice my chedar or chunk of corned beef without binding or breaking the slice .

just my thorts tho , there may well be other reasons a thick spined knife is essential for a survival blade that Im just missing here .