Thoughts on Forged in fire

bodog said:
I found that very amusing
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I did too




Oh man, they should do a show like this on machinists!

The first five minutes would be everybody pulling quotes out of their ass

The center 90% would be sitting around waiting on tooling to arrive

Everybody would scramble at the very end and almost nobody would be on time

then, you have to wait 60-90 days for the judges to decide

yeah, that's actually a pretty bad idea. never mind...
 
I still enjoy the heck out of this show. You cannot take the competition stuff too seriously. What TV competition is "fair?" It is entertainment. If every knifemaking exercise worked perfectly according to plan it would be boring. They have to do a balancing act, and IMO so far have done a great job.

I thought the makers did a really good job on the blades in the crusader sword episode.

And finally, it is clear that they are not going to be out to get or embarrass these guys, create false villains, etc. like on so many reality shows. IMO, they have presented Bladesmiths in a VERY positive light - the only possible downside I see being the emphasis on "it will kill" which does not bother me in the least little bit but will probably be a turn off to some bedwetting percentage of the public at large.
 
nice, @nathan, i like it!

___________

...my votes/recommendations long term for forged in fire include:


- make the test requirements known to the smiths before round one (making a chopper vs a slicer are two very different philosophies and knowing that would help the blade designs...it was instead announced just before the handle stage...but then after testing, they sent matt home mainly because his lighter blade didn't chop as deeply as the other blades)

- slightly larger anvils (for that much hammering in a couple hours 200-300 pounders would minimize energy loss and elbow damage), though having the power hammer and press available helps in this dept.

- scale the time proportionately to the starting point (i think this is being done somewhat now)...eg, from an old rasp, smaller bar, or rod 3 hours may work, but a near cubic block of W2 has to be moved a long way to catch up with those raw materials

- yes, please less focus on killing and more on all the other amazing things knives are used for every day...

- maybe just drop the big studio lights and run on house lights for a few minutes during someone's heat treat if they request it, most of that footage is not getting shown anyways...

- don't have knifemakers making swords...have a dedicated sword episode or two featuring only swordsmiths...


...and the ultimate wish list (for seeing some real heavy hitters and traditional workers):

- choose your forge (charcoal, coal, induction, or propane), fire management and working style is quite different for each...and how fun to see a charcoal forge blazing away in there...

- mix up the challenges but let the smiths sign up for specific ones (this is maybe starting to happen to some extent...ie. pattern welding episode) eg. all hand tools episode with a four to six hour split shift, axe episode, choppers episode, bushcraft episode, kitchen knives episode...etc.

- have some (an?) additional panelists/judges representing the wider pool of knowledge/tradition/technique or at least resisting the urge to comment on grey areas with too much finality (a specific example is the descriptor "blah" for david r's straight hamon, rather than recognizing the suguha style as one of the oldest and most recurring patterns on blades under a foot long...and not even mentioning that another competitor's hamon had what looked like total run out before the tip) ...that being said i know it's a tough spot to be in, the panel is as vulnerable to uneducated editing as the smiths are...




...still pondering, enjoying them more as they fine tune, can't wait to see murray do his thing!


>>>here's an idea for the folks here, a 3 hour knife challenge...someone start a thread...and the bonus is everyone will be aware of what they can do in that time if they show calls... ^__^
 
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David Stifle said:
Yes, it was, he was in pain, wasn't he? But I tuned in late, who were the smiths?
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That's probably the part that bugs me the most, when they introduce themselves they don't show their last names written on the screen, and sometimes it's hard to understand what they say, not to mention last names can be spelled pretty uniquely.

I know most of them from facebook etc. but anybody not into knifemaking most likely won't know how to look the person up for w/e reason.. even the winners!

And since not all of them are on BF to introduce themselves, here's a quick list of the makers and their sites (or a site with info about them) from last week.

Winner -Peter Burt - Works at Dragon's Breath Forge - http://www.dragonsbreathforge.com/peter.html

Second place -David Roeder - http://www.arizonacustomknives.com/David-Roeder.aspx


Eliminated after second round (handle making) -Matt Venier - Works at Venier Forge - http://www.venierdesign.com/Venier_Design_Inc./Welcome.html

Eliminated after first round -Gabriel Bell - Works at Dragonfly Forge - http://dragonflyforge.com/about-us/

Of course some have facebook pages as well.

~Paul
My YT Channel Lsubslimed
 
From what I gather from a friend, JD Smith failed to follow the instructions and was disqualified in the first round. That means that there has only been one episode where all the knives were correct. Please, correct me if I'm wrong - I've only managed to watch one episode streaming...

If, in fact, this is the case, what can this possibly be saying about the show...?
 
Matthew Gregory said:
From what I gather from a friend, JD Smith failed to follow the instructions and was disqualified in the first round. That means that there has only been one episode where all the knives were correct. Please, correct me if I'm wrong - I've only managed to watch one episode streaming...

If, in fact, this is the case, what can this possibly be saying about the show...?
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that the contestants don't listen well!!!!
 
Matthew Gregory said:
Do you think that's it, Bill? Really? Statistically, I don't think that view holds up well. I could see it happening once. Maybe even twice. Not ALL but once...
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well both contestants tonight admitted on tv that they weren't paying close enough attention. So based on that what do you think it is?
 
Last night was a good show. The car door test showed that the tests aren't completely thought out or tried. Let's face it, most 13" chopper style knives aren't designed to pierce car doors by a hand thrust. Luckily, the tester didn't loose a finger on the one knife. The bend test?? well it looked good for the cameras, but any sword that size should bend and return.


Let me preface my comments below with saying that I know J.D. Smith. I have watched him forge, and examined some of his masterpieces. He is smart, a very good teacher, and a pretty humble person.

I told my friend ( who has met and watched J.D.) yesterday afternoon that J.D. was going to be on. He said, "Wow, I bet he wins hands down." I said that I didn't think he would do well. He works on his pieces calmly and methodically for months, creating wonderfully embellished works of at, but that in a time constrained situation he would likely be a fish out of water. His performance last night showed what I was concerned about. In an effort to rush, he forgot the rules, and had difficulty with opening his canister a bit ( I think that was mostly editing shots to make it look worse that it was). His blade was nice, but did not have the required ingredients or size...and he went home.

This was not a result of his skills or abilities. It was a result of the nerves that affect even the best of us under pressure and commotion. Without time to stop and think about things, great chefs leave out baking powder in biscuits, and great smiths leave out part of the canister weld.

I have heard that Murray Carter will be on soon, and have some of the same concerns that I had about J.D.Smith. While he makes great kitchen knives with his Japanese shop, will he make a great 13" chopping knife with a harrow disc in three hours?... or a great cinquedea in five days?

The lesser known and experienced guy who makes a more assorted range of knives with a simpler setup may be more versatile under fire.
 
Bill Burke said:
well both contestants tonight admitted on tv that they weren't paying close enough attention. So based on that what do you think it is?
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In my post mentioning this I also stated that I haven't had the chance to view these programs. Thanks for the insight. Your delivery could use a little work, though.
 
Those who know me know that I thrive in the front of the room, am comfortable at the podium/pulpit, and don't let things rattle me when there is lots going on. I have been filmed and photographed for TV and news. In most all of these situations, I had days or months to plan, made lists, and checked them regularly to keep the show/event on track.

That said, I can totally see how the lights, cameras, crew, and just plain adrenalin of doing a big TV show could cause really smart people make dumb mistakes.

I am not sure how sorry I am that my knee and hand problem prevented me from possibly being a contestant. I tip my hat to the guys who made it on the show. It takes guts to stand in front of the world and not know if you will be the looser or winner.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
I have heard that Murray Carter will be on soon, and have some of the same concerns that I had about J.D.Smith. While he makes great kitchen knives with his Japanese shop, will he make a great 13" chopping knife with a harrow disc in three hours?... or a great cinquedea in five days?

The lesser known and experienced guy who makes a more assorted range of knives with a simpler setup may be more versatile under fire.
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I think Murray should do pretty well considering he is always under a time crunch to make knives. His experience of making 19,000 knives gives him experience most knife makers simply do not possess.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Those who know me know that I thrive in the front of the room, am comfortable at the podium/pulpit, and don't let things rattle me when there is lots going on. I have been filmed and photographed for TV and news. In most all of these situations, I had days or months to plan, made lists, and checked them regularly to keep the show/event on track.

That said, I can totally see how the lights, cameras, crew, and just plain adrenalin of doing a big TV show could cause really smart people make dumb mistakes.

I am not sure how sorry I am that my knee and hand problem prevented me from possibly being a contestant. I tip my hat to the guys who made it on the show. It takes guts to stand in front of the world and not know if you will be the looser or winner.
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^This^
This actually echos a lot of what was said when I had a chance to visit with 2 of the contestants a couple weeks ago. Bright lights, unfamiliar equipment and strenuous time constraints drive the probability of something going wrong through the roof.

Chris
 
Let's all hope for a second season, where everyone will be better prepared for it. That being said, I'd prefer to see the "Beat Bobby Flay" style where the judges spot mistakes and are helpful in the first round. No one wants to win/lose because of a simple forgetful mistake.
 
I think last night was the first episode where anyone was shown even glancing toward a steel rule, much less actually measuring anything. I could be wrong but I also think every episode has had at least one person get DQ'ed for making a blade either too short or too long, or some other really obvious "flaw".

What all that means is open to speculation (and it certainly adds to the "drama"), but if anyone's thinking of signing up for a comp like this, for Pete's sake listen closely to the parameters and bring a tape measure or at least a dollar bill with which to measure blade length. ;)
 
Matthew Gregory said:
In my post mentioning this I also stated that I haven't had the chance to view these programs. Thanks for the insight. Your delivery could use a little work, though.
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sorry I tried to tame it down but guess I failed at that. must not have been paying attention :)
 
Wondering after seeing the most recent one (that's available on Amazon) whether the difference between the two swords' performance was as much because of the fuller as heat treatment. Obviously the HT wasn't as good, but doesn't a fuller provide some structural stability?
What a beautiful five day sword that was, too....drool....
 
First, I think there should be a large white board with the blade requirements clearly spelled out in writing for all to see and refer back to. I wasn't there, but I can see how standing by four gas forges going full blast would make it hard to hear instructions.
Second, the power hammer looks to be a 25 lb one. I would like to see at least a 50 lb power hammer for them to use.
Third, like others have said, let the bladesmiths know in advance what the tests will be.
I enjoy the show and think it is getting better.
 
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