Thoughts on Forged in fire

Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
I agree that Mareko's sword was better. Unfortunately his handle started to come loose and the segments separate as well as the tang bend in the impact test. You could see the separation in the last shots as they examined the two side by side. If it hadn't separated, I am sure they would have made him the winner.

As to the bright lights and cameras, that is true, but 13" and 21" are a huge difference. He even measured it to check...and then cut off some of the tang. Not chopping the blade nearly in half and grinding a point on it was his mistake.
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I understand your angle , but cant answer that question, I'm sure Adam has replayed that in his head a thousand times. Hes not an idiot, but only he can answer what went through his mind with so little time left on the clock
 
I liked that episode. Its a shame that happened to mareko's gladius, it was a beautiful sword..One of those things and Im sure it isn't indicative of him as a smith..
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One thing Ive noticed on the 5 days at home shop part you may have a smith with a good solid small home shop go up against a smith with a huge shop that contains presses, large utility hammer and pro grade heat treat equipment..Now of course equipment dosnt make the smith but it sure makes sword sized billets of Damascus a lot easier to make;) Im not saying it isn't fair and Im not knocking the show for it at all but I think one of the smiths is somewhat of a disadvantage(to whatever degree) Theres not much that can be done about that though..
 
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Really? I thought it was pretty obvious he simply mistook 22" OAL for 22" blade length, which is why he cut it down to 21". This is the first time that viewers heard them mention an OAL max. Yeah, there were some mistakes in this episode that belonged earlier in the season. Even I know that you have to work 52100 much slower, especially at 2.5" diameter.
 
Atlas Knife Company said:
Although, I would have flunked both of them for using layered steel in a gladius.
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Err... you do realize that just about every gladius made in the roman period was pattern welded dont you? ...

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I sent a 19 year old kid last Thursday to a local shop that has blacksmithing and knifemaking classes because of FIF. He is signing up for lessons. I'll count that as a positive of the show.
 
If they do it again, I agree with what was said,


Show me a maker who isn't just a little deaf.

Summarize the instructions in writing, maybe a diagram or two they can refer to throughout the whole time.

It's not really the best competition possible if you send them home for stupid technical errors.
 
I am willing to bet that in the next season ( I think there will be a season 2) there will be a board on the wall with the specs drawing we see on out TV screen.

One thing for sure in season 2 is that all the smiths will be going in with open eyes. Having seen the problems of season one makers, their blades will be beefy, the specs will be written down on their note sheets and committed to memory, and handles will be sturdy not showy. I would also bet that knowing about the type of automated gadget impact testing the show likes, the final 5 day blades will be stronger and a tad less fancy.
 
Stacy - I agree 100% on 2nd season - it will be MUCH different....... and better.

Count, remember it's not competition to see who is the most skilled, but who works best under pressure.
 
Justin, Avigil; Thanks for the info- I did NOT realize the Romans were using Damascus steel in their short swords. I guess that's why both makers used pattern welded steel. Both of those were nice.

Ken
 
Part of a competition is paying attention.

They give out the parameters and then sit back and watch what happens.

You know the knifemakers are given the instruction due to many of them doing exactly as instructed.

When the pressure is on Shit happens and that is part of the drama of the show.
 
Agree about sticking to the parameters, much like high level art and craft programs, not only do you have to do your best but if you don't completely fulfill the assignment you fail.
 
I am a wannabe knife make and I have read and researched and watched videos till my eyes bleed. I realized the whole thing of taking a piece of metal and beating it into submission is a whole lot more than just that. I was excited to see the show before it aired. Even I have to say that know very little about any of it I was disappointed. The best part is watching the 2 finalist create whatever it is that they have them do. It show more of what these blacksmiths/knife makers can do given the time they need. 3-4 hours is not enough time IMHO to create a quality blade. I think one major thing I have learned while making my eyes bleed is that you need to take your time and practice to create quality blades.

Just my opinion.

Eric
 
Justin.Mercier said:
Err... you do realize that just about every gladius made in the roman period was pattern welded dont you? ...
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Honestly, I didn't know that. I thought the practice of pattern welding was introduced toward the end of the usage of the gladius and the introduction of the spatha around 300 AD. Although i suppose it would have been ridiculous to stay so authentic as to use 1025/1008 for your layers. It just kinda bugs me to almost always see pattern welded steel used in historical builds like this, or the viking battle axe.
 
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Just clarify terminology, and not derail this too much:

Damascus, pattern welded, and folded steel are different things. They are often called the same name, though.

For a very long time steel has been folded to evenly distribute the scarce carbon content and equalize the impurities. This layered steel has a grained look from the folds. The hada, or "grain" of Japanese katana is a classic example of this. Some was only folded a few times, and had a much coarser wood grain look. This was often part of being mass produced as fast and efficiently as possible.The Gladius is an example of this.

Pattern welded steel (what we call damascus today) was steel that was manipulated after being smelted into patterns and such. It was often folded many times before being patterned. The Viking blades are the most noted example of these.

Damascus is the common name for the ancient wootz steel. It is also called bulat in Russia and Scandinavia. This is a crucible steel with alloy banding and carbides formed to give it a shimmery fine lined effect. To some degree, it was an accident of the smelt. The pattern was caused by the ingredients of the smelt, long melts, multiple heat cycles and holds, and other things. It was tough and the carbides made the edge cut very well. It was not folded or hardened in any way we would recognize. Today, wootz is made by modern metallurgical methods, and some call it techno-wootz.

Some high quality blades were a product of several of these things. High quality Viking and French blades, like the UTHBERT blades, were made from wootz/bulat ingots brought from India and Russia, and them folded and patterned by very talented Northern European smiths.

Today, most of what is seen for sale under any of these names may well be actually one of the others. I often see "bulat" blades for sale online that are clearly only cheap damascus (pattern welded steel). Same goes for wootz blades.
 
My son Travis who is 18 and I have watched every episode. I got him interested in guns and knives at a very young age, and he really enjoys the show as well...

In full disclosure, I have never made a knife, or attempted to make a knife. Not because I wouldn't like to, but I've always had enough irons in the fire, and have never really had the time to start...
That said, I've done a lot of fab work over the years building race cars and show cars, and I won't criticize the mistakes some have made, because my Dad always told me, " Nobody likes an arm chair quarterback, and unless you can do better, keep the comments to yourself "...

I agree with the idea of them using a board with a sketch of the knife along with the parameters required. There have been a few blades that actually looked decent, but they were disqualified because of length. They could implement a rule that requires the maker to measure and verify length. That probably wouldn't happen though because some people thrive on the failure of others...

I hope it does come back for a second season. If it does, hopefully it will be without the " It will cut. It will kill " ... :D

I truly appreciate and respect the fact that many of you have invested thousands of hours and probably a fairly nice chunk of $$$ to get where you are, and I do enjoy watching people use those skills, and seeing the finished product.
While it isn't with knives, I do know the feeling of satisfaction and pride when looking at the finished product, no matter what it is...
 
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I've had several people over to my shop since this all aired to forge their own blades. A fellow knifemaker on here forged a gladius out of L6, with me last Saturday. Then texted me and said their forging gladius's on FIF.

As far as not following the parameters, I can't understand, other than taking one's self out of the competition after they told us what was going on. Of course many of us are only learning what we could and could not do by watching other episodes. The whole time I thought it was going to be an ABS performance test and was trying to make a bowie knife that would pass that, including fit and finish.
 
I suppose this is true, Adam, but it's certainly not a good way to generate drama. Don't you think a better way would be to make sure EVERYONE makes the right thing, and have excitement based on how well they achieved it? I get what you're saying, but it's a lame means of achieving it.

Now, having them forge while standing in a pit of poisonous snakes, or angry bees, or maybe a bunch of dominatrix in leather and heels with coach whips...

THAT would be more realistic to genuine forging conditions.

:D



AVigil said:
Part of a competition is paying attention.

They give out the parameters and then sit back and watch what happens.

You know the knifemakers are given the instruction due to many of them doing exactly as instructed.

When the pressure is on Shit happens and that is part of the drama of the show.
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Matthew Gregory said:
I suppose this is true, Adam, but it's certainly not a good way to generate drama. Don't you think a better way would be to make sure EVERYONE makes the right thing, and have excitement based on how well they achieved it? I get what you're saying, but it's a lame means of achieving it.:D
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"Better" yes we would enjoy that more but the show is not a documentary or showcase.

The show is following a formula that they use on many of these types of shows. The show is not about showcasing makers, it is a game/competition.

There is a reason some are kicked off and some make it to the end.

That is the show
 
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