Thoughts on Forged in fire

bradrian said:
As a scientist by training and trade, I'm REEEAALLLLLYY bothered by how subjective the blade tests are. Sure, they do a fairly good job of swinging the blades similarly for all entrants, but the only times that I feel the tests are truly "fair" are the ones using automated systems. There is no way that they can claim 100% reproducibility of their tests.

I know that Ray's blade wasn't perfect, but I was screaming at the TV that the test was not carried out in a completely fair manner.
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At first this is what I thought too, but the more I think about it, I'm not really so sure...
Part of being a successful knife maker is not only maximizing your product within the confines of your metallurgical limitations (proper heat treat, edge/blade geometry, hardness, etc...), but also maximizing it's usability for the end user.

For example, if I'm using a skinner, I'd rather have a knife with a comfortable handle that I can use and hold on to, even if I have to sharpen it 2 or 3 times more often, vs. a knife with the latest greatest super steel that 'never needs sharpening', but has an uncomfortable handle that I can't hold on to or slips out of my hand on every cut.
Now if you clamp both knives into a CATRA machine, obviously the 2nd knife will win hands down for cut tests. But if you add the human element into the mix, which knife comes out on top?

Granted, I realize that the coconut chop is primarily used as an example of edge retention, but I think a secondary purpose is also function, or how well the knife handles.
 
knife to a gunfight said:
...but the more I think about it...
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I don't think anyone has a problem with the knives being judged on their handling and aesthetics. However, the testing has far too much human interaction to be a true test of the knife and maker.

For example, punching the blade into a big drum full of blue goo might seem like a good test, but using a human do do it means that the human can unintentionally interfere with the blade's performance. Knife A does well and penetrates deep. Knife B doesn't. Did the tester give both knives the same amount of thrust along the same vector? If not, it's unfair to say that Knife B didn't perform as well as Knife A because they didn't do the same tests. They only appeared to do the same test.

Same happens when you try to chop through a tree trunk that still has the bark on it. Some places on the tree will have far thicker bark than others. Some of the bark will be very flaky and easily dislodged so the second chop gets a good bite into the wood. Some bark will hide a knot underneath it. The tester might think he's applying the same force for all three knives, but really is subconsciously favoring one knife over the others.

This isn't to say that some hands-on testing isn't great for getting a feel for the knife. Since the knife is judged on aesthetics and performance, part of the testing should be by a person. But, some of the testing is so inherently flawed that it's ridiculous. And the failure can't help but reflect poorly on the maker.

The basic premise is fun, but there's a reason why testing is mechanized in industries around the world. And if I was competing for ten grand, in public, you can bet I wouldn't want to hang my hopes on something so fickle as a human's interpretation. After all, these are the same judges that okayed a blade that was warped from the get go, and had a round handle that was hard to control when chopping through a wall of shrubbery. But at least it had a pretty handle.
 
VaughnT said:
For example, punching the blade into a big drum full of blue goo might seem like a good test...
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Simply dropping it tip-first onto a concrete floor is likely a better and more "controlled" test... but it's super boring to watch on TV. A drum oozing blue goo is way more "fun" *shrug* Likewise, a standard 2x4 would be better for chopping tests, but someone thought the log looked cooler.

I admit though... I do chuckle every time someone mentions the Wall of Shrubbery... I bet most people here own a $20 machete that would handle that just fine :p :D
 
when he tried to punch through a car door was kinda funny. That was more about his poor technique and strength and not the knife.
 
Atlas Knife Company said:
Come on James, who spends $20 on a machete? I never spend more than $10 for one and I'm certain it could handle the W.O.S.
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Come to think if it, I'm pretty sure the shipping was more than the actual knife, last time I bought a machete...
 
james terrio said:
A drum oozing blue goo is way more "fun" *shrug*
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I was able to speak with one of the contestants from that episode. He said the production crew had filled those drums to the brim. By the time J. had poked a couple holes in them they had leaked enough to overflow the containment area. They all got to sit around for 30 minutes or so waiting for the mess to be cleaned up before they could continue filming.

Chris
 
Cleaning it up doesn't sound very fun at all. Did they mention what the blue goo actually was?
 
james terrio said:
Cleaning it up doesn't sound very fun at all. Did they mention what the blue goo actually was?
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He didn't, but I am sure it was innate and purely for effect. It could have been done as simply as a blue dyed water/corn starch concoction.

Chris
 
jdm61 said:
While it may result in increased exposure for the craft, in the wimpy, PC age in which we live, is it really such a good thing when ever third word out of the host's mouth is WEAPON?
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^THIS...this this this. It drives me crazy when that no nothing host keeps referring to the makers blades as "weapons" - reveals his ignorance. I watch, but only because there isn't anything more "knife-guy'ish" available.
 
Just watched the war hammer episode . It really is a single handed weapon yet the judge wielding it for the test used both hands against an oak door and a brick wall . Pretty sure the war hammer of that era was not intended for either of those purposes . Overall an entertaining show.

Hopefully they will bring guys back that got cut early from previous episodes , clearly some of them were very talented .
 
speedseeker said:
^THIS...this this this. It drives me crazy when that no nothing host keeps referring to the makers blades as "weapons" - reveals his ignorance. I watch, but only because there isn't anything more "knife-guy'ish" available.
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Sounds like you and jdm are both part of the crowd creating the problem. Who gives a damn about PC? only sissy's
 
It was nice to see someone finally make a finished product. Craig's blade looked good and performed well. Good job lady and gentlemen.
 
Great episode to start the second season. Craig was obviously in a league of his own from the start, though that ram's head was a really nice touch. I don't think it would have taken very much at all for Jeff to have pulled off a win instead, though there's no question Craig earned it.

Looking forward to next week!
 
I agree, Craig was doing excellent right out of the gate. Everything he did was well thought out and executed. The hammer was really stunning as well as a real weapon that worked.

That first hole on Jeff's blade at the ricasso had me really worried. Just goes to show how easily mistakes can be make when the bright lights are in your face and you are rushing. While the ram's head and decorative langetes were cool, it had nothing to do with a war hammer. This is how many went down last season. If the effort was spent on the head and not the decorations, he might have won..
 
I think that Jeff's hammer looked spectacular. With 5 days to finish it, you can't fault him for adding the rams head flourish. It also looked like it performed well in the tests.

If he had fastened his langets with screws and epoxy, I'm sure they would not have fallen off. Also, if the handle was a little smaller I'm sure it could have been wielded with 1 hand. I think that would've given him a better chance at winning the competition.

That said, Craig's knife and hammer were spectacular. A great start to season 2!
 
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